Beginner's wooden daysailer

[stephen Dm]

For the last year, I've sailed with my boss on his 30' sloop with some frequency. I've really enjoyed sailing with him, but now I want a smaller boat that I can take out on my own and really practice and learn the fundamentals of sailing. I've been thinking very seriously about purchasing a used beetle cat, but wanted to get some feedback on what small, wooden sailboats might be appropriate for me. Below are some of the things I've been considering:

1) I want a boat that is appropriate for learning on, but would also be enjoyable to sail when I am more skilled. This is the criterium that made me think a Beetle Cat would be appropriate, as I've read so many stories of people who grew up with them and still enjoy sailing them.

2) I'd like to use it for some modest camp-cruising with my wife and dog. I'll be sailing it on the rivers and sounds of the Georgia coast, some of which are relatively shallow. We are minimalist campers, so hardly any storage is necessary (camping gear is like 30 lbs or so and very compact). The main issue would be the ability to beach it.

3) I'm not sure I'm interested in learning how to hike out or run the risk of capsizing with any regularity. I initially thought hard about getting a sunfish given the fact that many learn how to sail on it and still enjoy it as adults, but I think the wet ride, necessity of hiking out, and high risk of capsize probably nix it for me. I saw a youtube video of someone sailing a Beetle Cat while eating blueberries, and that appealed to me.

4) My budget for the boat itself is $7,500.

5) I have seriously thought about a used Catspaw dinghy (or even a new one). They are beautiful boats and I love that I would be able to row it too. I've been thinking the Beetle Cat might be more appropriate because:
a) I'm romantically drawn to its gaff rig, and somehow (perhaps incorrectly) think that learning how to sail this gaff rig will give me endless years of pleasure while still preparing me for a more advanced boat one day,
b) the deck on the Beetle Cat makes me think it could be slightly less wet, though I understand I'll be sitting on the floor boards, and there isn't a ton of freeboard,
c) the openness of a Catspaw dinghy makes me a little afraid of the consequences of a capsize. I understand Beetle Cats basically just swamp and can be bailed dry if capsized. I suspect a Catspaw would not be bailable if capsized.
d) the availability of replacement parts for a Beetle Cat. Savannah is not known for having a host of wooden boat shops ready-at-the-wait for repair and maintenance work. I would anticipate doing any repairs or maintenance in my backyard. While I have some woodworking experience, such as building strip-built canoes and SOF kayaks, I see more cursing and less sailing if I am going to be repairing and maintaining a catspaw by myself. I like tinkering with boats, and I like woodworking, I just would feel more comfortable getting a pre-bent rib from Beetle Cat, Inc. than in managing it all from scratch.

6) Are there issues with maintaining wooden boats in places like Savannah? Are there more difficult parasites to contend with the farther south you go? Is rot more of an issue? I obviously have no idea how weather affects wooden boat maintenance. Wooden boats aren't nearly as common in the South as the Northeast -- is this because of maintenance?

7) My preference would be to not have an outboard engine, but have a boat that is rowable / sailable. I'm not looking to cover great distances, just bop around the rivers and sounds on the Georgia coast. How do you maneuver a Beetle Cat when the sail is not up? I've seen that Beetle Cat, Inc. sells 5 ft paddles -- would it be possible to attach oarlocks to the coaming and row a beetle cat with some oars? Perhaps using a temporary backrest against the centerboard box? Or does using the single paddle suffice to move the boat from a slip to open water and back?

Thanks for your help. I know that there are a few users on this forum who think Beetle Cats are a lot of marketing hype and not very good sailboats: could you explain to me what you don't like about Beetle Cats, and what boat I should consider instead of a Beetle Cat given my priorities? I appreciate that my thoughts about a Beetle Cat could be entirely driven by marketing and hype since I have never sailed in one before.

Finally -- in spite of my brief consideration of a sunfish, I have a strong preference for a lapstrake or carvel-planked boat. This may be irrational, but it is an irrational impulse that i think I need to indulge on this boat. I've built strip-built canoes and SOF and S&G kayaks, so I'm not opposed to non-lapstrake or carvel-planked boats. I've always dreamed about owning a lapstrake or carvel-planked boat, and I think a small daysailer is a good boat to go for it to see if I am comfortable with the responsibilities of owning a boat built with those methods.

I know it would be preferable to sail a number of small wooden sailboats prior to choosing one to purchase, but I'm afraid that my schedule simply doesn't allow me to take trips to the northeast very often, and the South simply doesn't have the resources like Mystic Seaport or the Woodenboat School. I have a window of opportunity to get up to New England for a week or two next month, and therefore figured that, if I could get my thoughts in order, I might be able to come home with a small wooden boat.

Best,

Stephen

[JimD]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Welcome, Stephen. Did you want to be able to sleep in the boat? Or just beach it and set up a tent on shore?

[stephen Dm]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Beach it and camp on shore. I'm imagining it as an alternative to taking two sea kayaks. The sailboat would have the added bonus of allowing us to take our dog.

Best,
Stephen

[Thorne]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Some very good questions, and a lot of specific info for us to get our teeth into.

First, you are looking at two significantly different types of boats -- proper sailboats or sail & oar boats.

Sailboats are propelled by sails, but secondary propulsion for most over 12' is gonna be a small outboard. They may carry a paddle for emergencies, or even oars for calm water, but they can't be rowed or paddled far in windy conditions.

Sailboats are far more stable than sail & oar boats, probably a better match for two adults and a dog as crew.

The Beetle Cat, and other boats like Welsford's Navigator are proper sailboats.




Sail & Oar boats are really mostly pulling boats with sails added. They may or may not sail well, and will be narrower overall or at least aft to make them row better.

Oughtred's Ness Yawl and Vivier's Elorn are good examples of Sail & Oar boats. Unless partially decked, they will often take water over the rail when sailed hard and/or in sudden gusts.





So, you've got a choice between the two types, which may be based on your willingness to use an outboard or desire for overall stability.

It sure sounds as if you really like the Beetle Cat -- so that may well be the best choice for you. Put a nice little 4-stroke Honda 2hp on the back and you'll have a wonderful cruising machine...

[Jim Budde]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Stephen .. I have Dynamite Payson's plywood version of the Beetle Cat .. I do not think rowing is a realistic alternative. Nor do I think you will have enough cargo space for even minimal camping gear, a partner, a dog and a small Honda OB. However, it is very easy to rig Bettle Cat for sculling; providing a very easy and plesant way to move in calm waters. I seem to always stay out just a tad bit too long; wind dies and I'm a distance from shore. Grasp the old oar, a few flicks of the wrist and you'll be surprised how quickly you can scull back to shore / docks. And unlike rowing, you can scull for hours with little physical exertion on a boat as small as a Beetle Cat

[Peter Belenky]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

You didn't say how you plan to store and launch it. If you plan to dry-sail it , storing on a trailer and launching only periodically, a natural-grown, carvel-planked boat like a Beetle cat is a bad idea, since the planks will shrink out of water and the seams open. A glued-seam plywood lapstrake hull would work better.

You can search the listings, but finding the right wooden boat for sail at the right price is not like buying a fiberglass boat off the shelf. If you don't happen to spot just the right thing, you will miss your schedule.

There is a Bolger Bobcat (plywood adaptation of a Beetle) in Savannah here:

http://www.spectrumyachtsinc.com/site_page_4673/item_280514.html?listing_page=listing_sum_index_1.html

[stephen Dm]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

@ Thorne -- that's a great point about the differences between the Catspaw and the Beetle cat. My primary focus is on enjoying the boat for daysails and learning how to sail.

@ Jim -- That's good to know about sculling. To be frank, I am not specifically looking for a boat that I can row, but rather I would like to not have to monkey with an outboard, and so was thinking of some other way of getting from A to B without an outboard when the wind died. My buddy has a small skiff with an old outboard, and his boat seems to do nothing but raise his blood pressure instead of lowering it.

@ Peter -- you're right about the timing. That is a big issue for me, and one of the reasons my focus has been on big one-design classes or the Catspaw, which is relatively easy to find a couple in my price range at any given time in good shape. I'm not at a point in my career where I am the master of my own schedule (indeed, unfortunately I am not the master of my own weekends either), so I don't anticipate being able to really do what would be the ideal sailboat search -- biding my time and moving on the right boat when I find it.

As far as launching the boat -- I plan on putting it in a slip, so carvel or lapstrake should be ok.

I've seen ads for a couple of fiberglass 12' catboats in Brunswick. Tempting, and perhaps I should think harder about options like that, but at the same time I think, gosh, maybe it's finally time to get a traditionally built wooden boat.

I guess one thing in the back of my mind when I posted my initial post was the following: I have seen Haven 12 1/2's for sale for $12,000 - $20,000, which seem like really reasonable prices to me. What is there that exists in that price range between used Beetle Cats and used Haven's? I didn't really have a good answer to that question on my own, and so I was wondering what are the options that I am not thinking of? Are used Beetles the best wooden sailboat I can get for my price range that are appropriate for my particular priorities?

Thanks for all of your suggestions and advice,
Stephen

[rbgarr]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Stephen,

I grew up sailing Beetle cats and also lived and sailed in Savannah for twenty years. I'm guessing you are thinking of camping out at Williamson, Wassaw, Ossabaw or other barrier islands. It's a wonderful experience. The sunsets and sunrises are spectacular and swimming delightful. There may be leash laws for dogs now. I know they were being considered about five years ago.

We five (three kids) used an outboard for visiting those islands and would take bicycles for us all to ride on the hard sand beaches. One thing to be especially aware of in small boats there in the creeks, rivers and sounds is the strong current, tidal flow, tide heights and long flats that become exposed.

I wouldn't recommend the Beetle for Savannah. I owned one, but not there. They do not row and the distances are too great for sculling. Were you to beach it for the night you may find it high and dry in the morning and they are too heavy to horse around and drag back into the water.

Carrying an outboard motor is certainly an option but rowing along the creeks (particularly) is special because of the wildlife you'll see: eagles, osprey, porpoises, otters, wild hogs, herons, alligators (!), etc. You'll learn to use the back eddies to stay out of the worst of the currents. Watch out for the screaming jetskis, however, because they will cut corners and be on top of you before they know it. A mast will help them see you if they are paying attention. A boat that you and your wife could row together would be best and a sprit rig might be easiest to use because you'll find you want to plan your trips according to the tidal flow, aiming to move with the current as much as possible given the distances down there. A sprit rig will sail well down wind, be easy to strike and set when you wish and the mast can stay upright and out of the way when rowing.

I'd recommend a boat at least in the 16'-18' range for sufficient speed for two, and room for a dog and camping gear. A few inflated fenders could serve for hull rollers on those times you need to roll the boat back to the water. It would also be large enough to carry a small outboard like a Honda 2 if you needed to move along faster.

As far as maintenance is concerned, e-mail Doug Hylan at www.dhylanboats.com. He is a Maine-based, WB Magazine affiliated yacht designer and boat owner who lives part of the year on the creeks south of Savannah.

If it were me, I'd make bids on the 18 and 20' Whitehalls listed in Woodenboat For Sale Online (ads #734 and 737). They are priced above your limit but you never know.... The problem would be getting a boat from New England to Georgia of course, and then keeping it out of the hot degrading sun when you are not using it. The high humidity is not a problem for the boats there as long as you keep them clean and ventilated.

My two cents anyway.

Edited to add: As you may have seen, boats like Lightnings are used there. They are 19 feet long and swift enough to sail against the currents... when there is wind. They are beachable but too heavy to move back to the water if caught high and dry. A Haven would be even more of a problem. In any case both would need outboard motors because they are not rowable for any meaningful distance. I knew two couples in Savannah who had cat boats, one a Marshall Sandpiper, larger and with more sail than a Beetle, and another one even larger. They found their boats frustrating to sail in the rivers and sounds and barely used them after a while.

The 1996 Olympic sailing events were held off the mouth of the Wilmington River and the local sailors hoped it would jumpstart a big interest in sailing and racing. It did not work out as they hoped and you'd be hard pressed to find any signs that the competition ever took place there. The race courses were five to ten miles from the docks and one to two miles off the barrier islands in order to get away from the river and sound currents (except for the windsurfer classes iirc).

[Woxbox]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

I'm inclined to agree with all of the advice above. I do like the notion of avoiding the motor. But in that case, you want a boat that rows reasonably well, not one that can just be moved around a bit. I'd be looking most carefully at the Ness Yawl, myself. A good balance between capacity and stability on the one side, but not too heavy to manage under oar and getting on and off the beach.

[johngsandusky]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Dory, anyone?

[David G]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Stephen,

You've done a far better job than average delineating your needs. Congrats. I'm still a bit up in the air, though. It sounds like you're looking for an existing boat to buy... or, are you looking for a design that you will build?

[Uncle Duke]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

You might want to think about a Core Sound 17, kit available for about $1,700, specs here:

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17.htm

And a nice write-up here on one that is or was for sale - I don't see a price, though:

http://fivenineclimber.com/boats_sailing/coresound17.htm

Lots of pics on both sites....

[JimD]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Yes, a bigger boat than a Beetle Cat. CMD's Catbird 16 is another quick build and beachable flat bottom sailer with eye catching lines http://www.cmdboats.com/catbird16.ht...6995ab88f5e1db:

[JimD]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Witholz's 15 foot catboat http://www.woodenboatstore.com/1411-...nfo/400%2D047/ :

[JimD]

Re: Beginner's wooden daysailer

Devlin's Nancy's China http://devlinboat.com/nancychinadc.htm :