Just fore the fun of it:)

[Greever]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

Why thank you very much Greever for the kind words and thanks for dropping by the comedy section!

The serious learnin' happens on Mr.Ledgers' thread and will one day continue if he can ever find the time to get his bumbum back on the catboat saddle

I'm nearly on the edge of my seat waiting to learn some more for him!



Cheers!


Peter

Actually, you would probably make good side money as a Comedian.

Send the proceeds to Ledgers timber fund! (I have been waiting for another katboat fix myself...)

Again thanks for sharing, you can't buy this kind of entertainment!

[P.L.Lenihan]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

Chill probable gets knocked off more effectively if you PLUG 'ER IN TENNER!!!!

That's what I like about this place! You interrupt your busy work schedule and haul out the camera to take more pictures for the peanut galley, your hands begin to freeze without your mits on just to operate the friggin' camera, all the while pre-occuppied with a myriad of things to get done in a certain order, and just because you happen to snag the power cord with a boot and unplug it temporarily,WHAMO, they notice that right away and call you on it.

Now, had you actually been here when that happened Sailor,I trust you would have just plugged it right back in as you made you way back for another glass of port and not said a thing,right? Ah....I thought so too


Cheers!


Tenner, with the big clumsy feet.......

[P.L.Lenihan]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

Moving right along and with the heater now PLUGGED in, it is time for the dry fit or dry run installation of the outter rubrail. Some may wonder while in blazes I just don't whip up a batch of epoxy and be done with it.

Well, there are a few reasons.1)The piece has to be installed dry so that I can trace the underside lower profile of the previously installed inner rubrail since this piece is tapered fore and aft. That's right, a rubrail should always have some taper worked into its' ends so that it appears less bulky as it curves up to the ends of the boat.This taper should be removed from the lower edge of the rubrail too otherwise you risk having a rubrail staring back at you with a frown.That is, it will not compliment and enhance an otherwise delightful shear line. Once this piece will be permanently installed, the thickness of the finished rail will also recieve some tapering as it approaches the ends of the boat.

2) Working alone, with epoxy spread the full 32 feet, it would be a real treasure trove worth of cursing to have to hold the piece up,drill counter sunk screw holes,keep outter rubrail perfectly aligned with the inner rail and drive about 32 2" No.12 screws all before the epoxy begins to set up and without tripping over the power cord for the heater! Dry fitting is much less stressful and allows one to take wee breaks for some medicine. Believe me, after wrestling with this piece and driving all those screws by hand, you're gonna NEED some medicine!



The rail gets installed from front to back, as the front is where the most curvature in the hull occurs on this boat.Having the open cockpit right there too makes it easy to lay a few clamps on quickly.



The aft end of the outter rubrail rests briefly on an opened step ladder. A very handy extra set of hands which will never complain, can hold a piece up indefinately and hates beer and port! Imagine that!?




Coming around the bend, nice and slow, with screws about every 10" and staggered up and down to avoid creating a serrated effect or weak spot for the wood to split nicely along.



Screw right through the scarph...a real test of confidence in ones work,ha! The scarph area will look much better after the screw holes are bunged and the whole works gets a nice dressing down.Honest! Oh, for the eagle eyed observer, those blue pen arrows pointing up and down are just for my own reference and indicate the location of the "old" screw holes on the inner rubrail. I did not want the new outter screw holes to follow the same stagger pattern as the old screw holes .



At last! The whole rail in place and fitted nicely. The C clamp with block was just to help take off some of the stress on the screws as the rail was pushed up toward the stern.


Once all done, a glass is poured and the tired worker goes home secure in the knowledge that all is right with the rail and that come the following day, things will be "easier" despite epoxy everywhere!




The following day, the outter rubrail gets its' profile traced on its' inner underside, gets removed from the boat and the excess wood is then removed from the ends, as seen here of the aft section. The two faying surfaces will also recieve a pass of the right angle grinder to put in a nice bit of hollow for the same reasons as used for the scarphs. You want to create a slight pocket for the product to remain in the joint despite the considerable presure applied from the many screws and the curvature of the hull side to squeeze it all out.


To be continued..........


Cheers!

Tenner, the two armed chimp.......

[cookie]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

Looking tres beautiful, Sir Lenihan!

Btw, you won't be able to fool me into believing you're a fool. Just a bit of contrary evidence here

a rubrail should always have some taper worked into its' ends so that it appears less bulky as it curves up to the ends of the boat.This taper should be removed from the lower edge of the rubrail too otherwise you risk having a rubrail staring back at you with a frown.That is, it will not compliment and enhance an otherwise delightful shear line.

Oh, for the eagle eyed observer, those blue pen arrows pointing up and down are just for my own reference and indicate the location of the "old" screw holes on the inner rubrail. I did not want the new outter screw holes to follow the same stagger pattern as the old screw holes

[Figment]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

Moving right along and with the heater now PLUGGED in, it is time for the dry fit or dry run installation of the outter rubrail. Some may wonder while in blazes I just don't whip up a batch of epoxy and be done with it....

Actually, I rather wonder why in blazes you'd epoxy it in place at all. It's a RUBrail, right?
It's going to be the thing that rubs against (smashes into) all manner of unfriendly objects... I might want to be able to remove and replace a bit from time to time.

Just throwing monkeywrenches.

[Sailor]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

I'm with Figment. Fit her in removable like for those reasons. Less Goo to work with with unwieldy pieces.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

Looking tres beautiful, Sir Lenihan!

Btw, you won't be able to fool me into believing you're a fool. Just a bit of contrary evidence here

Monsieur Le Baron Biscuit,

Me, I deny all dis stuff you are quoting,yes, and de plus, I wish to say in my defence que c'est pas de ma fault si some tings que j'ecrite sound like dey make er...a...how you say...make sense!

C'est une error Monsieur, une simple error...c'est toute

I raise a glass in your general direction!


Chin!Chin! Mon Amie!


Pierre

[Sailor's Brother]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

That's what I like about this place! You interrupt your busy work schedule and haul out the camera to take more pictures for the peanut galley, your hands begin to freeze without your mits on just to operate the friggin' camera, all the while pre-occuppied with a myriad of things to get done in a certain order, and just because you happen to snag the power cord with a boot and unplug it temporarily,WHAMO, they notice that right away and call you on it.

Now, had you actually been here when that happened Sailor,I trust you would have just plugged it right back in as you made you way back for another glass of port and not said a thing,right? Ah....I thought so too


Cheers!


Tenner, with the big clumsy feet.......

ya know if you didn't shut down the boatyard for weeks on end, a bit of port would probably be more than enough incentive to get sailor (and even his brother) down to help plug in your heater... after all it's basically right next door...

on a more serious note, looks like you used that fancy red "tuck tape" brand tape used for vapour barrier to tape your windows shut, not sure about you but every time I use that stuff it's semi permanent.. I can get the tape backing off, but not the glue (without sanding it off) do you have any tricks to getting it off (the tape, get your minds out of the gutters...) without leaving the glue on the nice staves? or do you just enjoy sanding that much? (which I'm beginning to suspect anyway)

[P.L.Lenihan]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

Actually, I rather wonder why in blazes you'd epoxy it in place at all. It's a RUBrail, right?
It's going to be the thing that rubs against (smashes into) all manner of unfriendly objects... I might want to be able to remove and replace a bit from time to time.

Just throwing monkeywrenches.

Dear Figment,

While I do whole heartedly agree with your premiss, from a purely historical perspective, I feel compelled to state that in this particular case,this is not a work boat but rather a pleasure boat or "yacht".

That is to say, I will not be using this boat ever as a working vessel,working to a tight schedule and/or competing with other vessels for space at the wharph to unload my catch etc... She is also not a fair ground bumper boat.

Instead, she is intended to provide leisure time on the water and will move at a leisurely rate when she wishes to change vistas. I will also endeavour to practice proper and prudent boating handling at all times so as to not cause blemishes in the paint,nicks in the varnish nor expensive piles of toothpicks from shattered rubrails.I will also be employing a nice flock of fenders,strategically placed, to assist me, when in tight quarters, toward achieving my goal of never damaging the boat. I've yet to ever have to replace a damaged rubrail on my previous boats and can only hope my good fortune continues with this boat once launched.

However,should the unthinkable ever occur and I do damage the rubrail, I'll do a photo essay on dutchmans

Now for a considered notion, based on my own observations; I've seen many rubrails rotting almost right off the boat and helping to spread that rot into the sheer strake,sheer clamp and sometimes even the deck.Why? Because upon close inspection virtually nothing was put behind the rubrail. It was just bolted or screwed in place and the inevitable happend. Rain water and dirt very slowly made its' way down off the deck and into the teeny gaps found between the hull and rubrail.Up here, add the freeze and thaw cycles to the equation and it is not difficult to imagine the festering illness of rot taking hold with a vengence......eventually.

When asked why there was at least no bedding compound(at the very least!) laid behind the rubrails, the owners questioned all responded with similar answers,"In case I ever have to replace it after taking a rough hit to the rail." It is worth noting that those rubrails I've seen had not the slightest hint of a nick or scratch from contacting foreign immovables. They were just rotting off the boat. The owners/skippers had always taken pride in the safe conduct of the boats and it showed. Too bad the had adopted a silly practice from another era of work boat fleets.

At any rate, that is my take on the permanent attachment of rubrails. I'd dearly enjoying reading others' thoughts on this.....to either confirm or refute my present state of sanity

And finally,about this business of tossing monkey wrenches. I say,"don't do it!" Instead head up this way one day and I'll ply you with vintages various until you put the wrenches down and see the light


Cheers!!


Peter, too anal perhaps or just crazier than a barrel full of monkey wrenches

[P.L.Lenihan]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

I'm with Figment. Fit her in removable like for those reasons. Less Goo to work with with unwieldy pieces.

Oh ye of little faith in madness! See my reply to Figment.....it would have been the same reply for you....but you are forgiven,coming from a working boat background as it were, with your "job".



Cheers!

Peter

[P.L.Lenihan]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

ya know if you didn't shut down the boatyard for weeks on end, a bit of port would probably be more than enough incentive to get sailor (and even his brother) down to help plug in your heater... after all it's basically right next door...

on a more serious note, looks like you used that fancy red "tuck tape" brand tape used for vapour barrier to tape your windows shut, not sure about you but every time I use that stuff it's semi permanent.. I can get the tape backing off, but not the glue (without sanding it off) do you have any tricks to getting it off (the tape, get your minds out of the gutters...) without leaving the glue on the nice staves? or do you just enjoy sanding that much? (which I'm beginning to suspect anyway)

And here is the second best thing I like about this place; folks always ready and willin' ta come lend a hand to a poor chap in difficulty.............so long as its' the poor chap picking up the tab
(Why oh why dear God Almighty are all my friends the same way? Is it my mouthwash? The way I comb my hair? How I file my nails? Come on Lord! Level with me for once!)

As to your other question Sailor's Brother, you are correct in your observation regarding my use of the infamous red tuck tape.However there are tricks, as you say, to using it temporarily. For the stuff going on around my windows: a dusty surface ensures easy,red-glue-free removal, especially as it is only on for a couple of days. For other applications which will see the tape in service for much longer periods, simple "paint remover/thinner" works fine with a sharp putty knife to remove the glue residue. I would not however recommend using this wonderul tape from hell on painted surfaces as such.You'll ruin your paint job!!. Remember, the grey colour on the hull is just epoxy primer and NOT paint.

Hope your holidays are to your satifaction!!


Cheers!


Peter, crazy about the red tuck tape, but not completely nuts!

[Eric D]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

I concur with your rub rail ideas, they mirror my own...Often wondered why more people did not subscribe to that theory...maybe with your excellent reply, they will

Merry Christmas Peter, looking good.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

With the port side outter rubrail dry fitted,removed, trimmed of its' excess wood near the ends and given a slight hollowing/dishing, it was now time for some real fun:epoxying!

Unfortunately,with two heaters running on full to get the temporairy shelter all nice and warm, I had little time to dilly or to dally with picture taking.All I have are a couple of photos showing the end result of the sweat inducing fun effort.



Port side,looking aft with just a nice amount of epoxy squeeze out along the seam.




Port side,looking forward, with more squeeze out. There was a bit more squeeze out than visible here in these two photos but I had picked up most of it to ease the inevitable sanding yet to come.The upper edge has a slight bevel to it just to knock off some of the apparent visual bulk of the rubrail and the lower edge will recieve a nice radius to remove an otherwise sharp corner which is known not to hold finishes very well. The bungs will come early in the new year as will most of the preliminary sanding of these rubrails.

No, there will not be another "guess how many bungs" contest for the rubrails.That is too easy and you guys are too good!



As I mentioned in an earlier post about the rubrails before scarphing them, the long lengths(14'),once ripped from a larger plank, may take on a bit of a sweep or longitudinal sideways curve(They did).Ideally, one should attempt to lay them out in such a fashion so that the orientation of these sweeps or curves follows the same sweep of the sheer(I did). This reduces the amount of effort needed to lay the rubrail in place as you are not fighting against the woods natural bend(It does).

However, on one of my shorter lenghts(7'), this piece took a sweep in the opposite direction of the sheer! Foreseeing some serious wrastlin' with this one contrary member, I set it up on edge and but a pre-bend into it for an overnight dose of friendly persuasion. It worked just fine and convinced me further that the scarphs were going to be plenty strong!






Here we see the villan,layed on edge and cranked down hard to take out the unwanted sweep or curve.It was just eye-balled until I got it looking at least fairly straight instead of the evil curve it had adopted.This photo also shows the nice bevel on the upper edge...just an arbitrary slope.




Another view of the villan showing two 2X3s clamped in such a fashion so as to hold the rubrail vertically on edge.





A close up view showing the persuader clamp right over the scarph joint. Not even the slightest crick,crack or moan of complaint from the joint!



A more or less over-head view of the set-up which also shows that the temporairy poly shelter has been relieved of its furring strips and allowed to drap down nearer to the hull to reduce the air space to be kept heated while the epoxy cures on the now installed port side outter rubrail. The odd-ball clamp to the right is just holding the poly closed against the step ladder......I was out of smaller hand clamps and the heat from the heaters was causing the poly to float and flutter upward allowing valuable heat to escape.



Cheers!


Peter

[P.L.Lenihan]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

Being the sensitive type,particularly during the holiday season, I will refrain from exposing you all to the whole song and dance needed for the starboard side!("Thatta boy Tenner!! Give us a bloody break from all this Godawful titillation! We can't take it no more,ya fool! Show us bikini clad morsels Tenner!")

Ahem, excuse me, as I was saying, I'll not show the whole process, just a few clips perhaps.



Starboard side,looking aft, getting readied for the introduction of the outter rubrail,poly tacked up in place with some furring bits and my trusty helper standing near the transom waiting to hold up its' end of the deal!




Starboard side,looking forward,poly all over the place.




Starboard side outter rubrail temporarily clamped in place.....one can just make out the clamps up forward under the poly. The poly all over the boat is a heat issue...it keeps the inside of the boat warm.Frozen clouds on the ground courtesy of: Mother Nature,bless her soul!




Starboard side,looking forward,much later on(after 16:00hrs,that's why it is so dark outside), the starboard outter rubrail permanently installed.




Starbioard side, now looking aft,same thing as above....done!




One bikini clad chickipoo:




























The person who puts up with so much of my craziness and the real hero of my madness! The light of my life!!!




Cheers!


Peter the lucky!

[P.L.Lenihan]

Re: Just fore the fun of it

I concur with your rub rail ideas, they mirror my own...Often wondered why more people did not subscribe to that theory...maybe with your excellent reply, they will

Merry Christmas Peter, looking good.

A Merry Christmas to you and yours Eric D.! Glad to hear that I'm not alone with this way of thinking regarding attaching rubrails etc...

As I mentioned earlier, I would dearly love to read what some real experienced boatbuilders think about it too. I loves larnin'


Cheers!


Peter