Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

[NCFaering]

I am getting close to finishing my Eflyn and am currently working on the rudder and other sailing accessories. I was trying to figure out how to attach the rudder to the boat and where to buy the hardware. This is what it looks like in the plans:

PXL_20230604_192836622.jpg
Classic marine has the hardware kit for it, but it costs $440 dollars. Doable, but kills the boat budget for a while. Are there any cheaper options or ways to attach? or is this just a case of "don't look for trouble and buy the kit".

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

I am getting close to finishing my Eflyn and am currently working on the rudder and other sailing accessories. I was trying to figure out how to attach the rudder to the boat and where to buy the hardware. This is what it looks like in the plans:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]138032[/ATTACH]
Classic marine has the hardware kit for it, but it costs $440 dollars. Doable, but kills the boat budget for a while. Are there any cheaper options or ways to attach? or is this just a case of "don't look for trouble and buy the kit".

Any fab shops near you that can fabricate stainless, or braze bronze? Ask for quotes for the welding and finish them yourself.

[Andrew2]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

Close friend has just completed a Sharpie 600. Last boat he used Classic Marine, but their prices are a bit startling now. Gaff saddle at £300, so I made the lot for him. All mast fittings, gooseneck, rudder hardware, chainplates and bow fittings.OK, I can weld SS, but maybe you could make up the bits and get them welded, as Nick suggests? Think I spent about €60 on material, but lots left over.
Another friend completed an Elfyn recently, I will ask him what he did.
A2

[Andrew2]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

He just replied:
1" brass square bar for the 'blocks', 1/8" sheet for the strapping and 5/16" rod. Made it all up and local shop did the brazing.

[sp_clark]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

He just replied:
1" brass square bar for the 'blocks'....

Brass?

Not bronze?

Brass is easy enough to work but most alloys are fairly softish compared to bronze. Silver soldering's also fairly easy on brass compared to the temps needed to braze bronze.

Just curious if brass'd be A Good Choice for something dunked in salt water often enough to risk de-zincification.

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

[QUOTE=sp_clark;6862983

Just curious if brass'd be A Good Choice for something dunked in salt water often enough to risk de-zincification.[/QUOTE]

Long enough, not often, is the key.
One days sail per week will not be an issue. Buried in damp wood 24/7 for yeas is an issue.
Use bronze screws.

[NCFaering]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

Building it a home and having a shop braze it sounds like a good choice. My only worry is buying all the materials, failing and then having to buy the kit.Ill price it out and see if its worth the risk. Brass should be ok, I live in the middle of NC, so it will mostly be sailed on lakes and stored on a trailer. I don't think I am brave enough to ever sail it on salt water or at least it will be years. For some odd reason I decided to go the "build a sail boat, learn to sail after route". Deciphering all the rigging hardware/ rope needed is an adventure that I am just starting to work on.

[Toxophilite]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

If you have a local sailing club, take a few lessons as you build your boat. You will gain knowledge about sailing which will inform your boat build, rigging and hardware choices. and you will be able to sail your boat right away with a certain amount of confidence.

[Andrew2]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

Brass?

Not bronze?

Brass is easy enough to work but most alloys are fairly softish compared to bronze. Silver soldering's also fairly easy on brass compared to the temps needed to braze bronze.

Just curious if brass'd be A Good Choice for something dunked in salt water often enough to risk de-zincification.

This boat will be occasionaly sailed and kept on dry land. His options were limited as in Portugal (other than CM) First big trip will be down the Guardiana river from as far up as it will float, down to the sea.

[Andrew2]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

This might help, but I notice he has not followed the drawing on the pintles
:20230423_171650.jpg

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

This might help, but I notice he has not followed the drawing on the pintles
:[ATTACH=CONFIG]138095[/ATTACH]

Not as good a design as on the drawing, both not as strong and no ability to lift and still use the rudder in shallow water.

[Andrew2]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

Not as good a design as on the drawing, both not as strong and no ability to lift and still use the rudder in shallow water.

I will quiz him on that.

[Edward Pearson]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

I'm not a fan of the original. Iain drew it like that after looking at originals, but there's no way he'd pay what CM charge now and I don't think he'd draw it that way again.

It would make more sense if the middle pintle was long, so the rudder would slide up and down when beaching, like it does on Misainier's in France for example. As it is, you're going to be perched over the back at launch or beaching trying to re arrange the rudder on a different pintle, on a boat with very limited reserve rear buoyancy, so it'll sink and submerge what you're trying to look at. You are going to have to leave it up position for rowing or down position for sailing and live with it. The pintles aren't in alignment either.

I wouldn't pay more for something that worked worse than a standard lifting rudder. I'd make one of those, to an Oughtred shape, with pintles in-line/ same plane. Make it so when it's up, the blade is immersed to just above the line to the bottom of the keel horizontal line so you still have steerage but not scraping until the boat touches. Just buy two stainless dinghy rudder fittings for £40 or so. Not bronze but not £3-400 either, on what is otherwise a realtively 'cheap' but beautifull and good boat.

If you go brass, I think Naval Brass with added tin, is what you want (still has the zinc though).

[Andrew2]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

Here is mine, on the Whilley Tern. I bought some 20 x 3 mm ss strip and made all the fittings from that. Very strong, more or less to plan. (ignore the pins, couple of bolts just to hang it) Obviously the rudder is more work, but is very effective and light on the helm.
2023_0606TDS20001.jpg
The pins are nearly in line, so don't need the sloppy holes the original for the Elfyn has.

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Double Ender(Oughtred Eflyn) Rudder hardware

I'm not a fan of the original. Iain drew it like that after looking at originals, but there's no way he'd pay what CM charge now and I don't think he'd draw it that way again.

It would make more sense if the middle pintle was long, so the rudder would slide up and down when beaching, like it does on Misainier's in France for example. As it is, you're going to be perched over the back at launch or beaching trying to re arrange the rudder on a different pintle, on a boat with very limited reserve rear buoyancy, so it'll sink and submerge what you're trying to look at. You are going to have to leave it up position for rowing or down position for sailing and live with it. The pintles aren't in alignment either.

I wouldn't pay more for something that worked worse than a standard lifting rudder. I'd make one of those, to an Oughtred shape, with pintles in-line/ same plane. Make it so when it's up, the blade is immersed to just above the line to the bottom of the keel horizontal line so you still have steerage but not scraping until the boat touches. Just buy two stainless dinghy rudder fittings for £40 or so. Not bronze but not £3-400 either, on what is otherwise a realtively 'cheap' but beautifull and good boat.

If you go brass, I think Naval Brass with added tin, is what you want (still has the zinc though).

Here is mine, on the Whilley Tern. I bought some 20 x 3 mm ss strip and made all the fittings from that. Very strong, more or less to plan. (ignore the pins, couple of bolts just to hang it) Obviously the rudder is more work, but is very effective and light on the helm.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]138151[/ATTACH]
The pins are nearly in line, so don't need the sloppy holes the original for the Elfyn has.

Well, this works,
straps 013.jpg

OK, it does not extend below the keel and so does not need to slide up, but the pintles are not in line. That is dealt with by flaring the holes in the gudgeons top and bottom.

One thing to note on that old school classic set up is that the lower gudgeon has a slot, and the top of the long pintle has corresponding grooves to allow the gudgeon to slip on. It then bears on the full diameter of the pintle. So you put the lower gudgeon on at the top of the pintle, then let it slide down and forget about it whilst you put the upper gudgeon on whichever pintle you want .