Bilge Restoration

[rookiejack]

Re: Bilge Restoration

by n by, if she gets rot repaired or turns out to be sound, I think the best thing to put on the inside is CPES only, not paint

Oh nice I have never heard of this. I picked up some GitRot, but only a small a mount. I'll get some of this instead, I think. I like the idea of something penetrating the wood a little to get to at least some of the rot, rather than just coating the top of it. Maybe it's marketing, but it sounds good.

Thanks a lot.

[wizbang 13]

Re: Bilge Restoration

That is what it does, it goes IN.
its thinner than water...gets into every crack/check/gap
Resin/git rot sit on top
git rot does not harden up like "regular "(WEST 105)resin.it gets like hard rubber...fingernail ish.
as long as the sun does not reach it, (hello bilge),it needs nothing else
"Smiths" brand
Bruce
...CPES is for "locking up" the ply, sealing it.It's not for fixing the leak or fixing rot.

[rookiejack]

Re: Bilge Restoration

It looks like CPES is hard to find right now. Do you have any experience or have you heard anything about TotalBoat's penetrating epoxy? I just remembered I grabbed a small kit of it when I got the GitRot to compare the two. Seems closer to CPES than GitRot.

After I get this all sealed up with CPES or TotalBoat's version, is there some kind of marine filler I should be using to patch up anything on the interior? I've got some Formula 27 for a couple holes on the exterior right below the water line on the starboard side. Can any bilge leaks be patched from the top like that? The exterior is painted, and stripping it down from beneath with little clearance on the trailer may not be an option for me.

[wizbang 13]

Re: Bilge Restoration

I cannot speak to Total Boat penetrating epoxy as I've never used it. I have used System Three Penetrating Epoxy, and I can tell you it is NOT the same as Smiths CPES.
Never used Formula27 either but it appears to be polyester resin,like Bondo, in which case it is not suitable for a boat. Stay with epoxy products. I use the ubiquitous WEST System.
Don't try to fix leaks from the inside, it is just bad practice. The water may stop pooling in the bilge, but the water may be creeping through the hull.
Can we have more pics of the boat, hull, on the trailer, technicalnotart photos.
fer instance, is the hull glassed? and with what?(polyester or epoxy,fiberglass or dynel)
A lightly built boat like this sitting on an improper trailer can do damage that cant be easily seen.not just rot, but very slight distortion in the bottom, known as "hook".

[rookiejack]

Re: Bilge Restoration

Screenshot 2023-06-04 at 9.24.58 AM.jpgScreenshot 2023-06-04 at 9.24.00 AM.jpgScreenshot 2023-06-04 at 9.24.25 AM.jpgScreenshot 2023-06-04 at 9.24.08 AM.jpgScreenshot 2023-06-04 at 9.25.05 AM.jpg

I found some CPES War Weather, and picked up a couple gallons.

Here are some more pictures. I picked this thing up for $1,200 and I knew it needed work, but if anything here indicated that this thing is going to rot to the bottom of the lake in the next 5 years if I don't get under it and repair/repaint it from below (which I'm assuming would need some specialized stands), I'd love a heads-up so I can sell it to a fan of these old things. The previous owner used it a lot, but not as much as I plan to use it. I am going to need to keep it in the water covered at a marina most of the time. Is that a terrible idea for a boat like this?

[wizbang 13]

Re: Bilge Restoration

Oh Golly , It's a Tolly !!!

That is a well reguarded brand of boat around here.
The fir ply used is the best quality, quality that one cannot get in fir anymore.
I'd say tear out the fg repair that was done.
The MDO patch in the bow looks fine, if no discoloration beyond it is detected.
A few gallons of CPES ..a quart or two'll do it. Once it starts building up on the surface,STOP.



keep scraping ...the area between the edge of the "keelson" and the ply is the most important. Where wood MEETS wood is where trouble will lurk.
Scrape away on the outside bottom a bit, try and see how/if she is glassed.I think she is, but get down to the glass and scratchnsniff it. Polyester(the resin used to make fiberglass boats) has a strong styrene kind of smell. Epoxy has hardly any odor. Chances are, to fix the leak, you will have to remove some fiberglass from the outside, "open " up the seam between the ply and keel, use some epoxy putty/and all the drama that goes with a new product. Fix rot if any of course. Replacement of the fiberglass (dynel's what I would use) should be done all with epoxy resin. Do the boat a big favor and never let polyester near her !
Bruce

[rookiejack]

Re: Bilge Restoration

Okay she must be glassed, then. I was scraping off some loose stuff in the attached picture to get ready to patch the leak the previous owner said is there. It was a TOUGH scrape, and released a very strong smell. I thought I was hitting some previous patch work. I had no idea these things had a layer of fiberglass on them. It sure felt like I was scraping fiberglass. Once the pictured leak is fully exposed and feathered out, I just brush epoxy resin over it, smooth that all out, then paint over it?

I'm not optimistic I will be able to color-match this old paint (if it is actually old), but I can live with a small patch. Or multiple patches below the surface.

Screenshot 2023-06-04 at 9.24.32 AM.jpg

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Bilge Restoration

Okay she must be glassed, then. I was scraping off some loose stuff in the attached picture to get ready to patch the leak the previous owner said is there. It was a TOUGH scrape, and released a very strong smell. I thought I was hitting some previous patch work. I had no idea these things had a layer of fiberglass on them. It sure felt like I was scraping fiberglass. Once the pictured leak is fully exposed and feathered out, I just brush epoxy resin over it, smooth that all out, then paint over it?

I'm not optimistic I will be able to color-match this old paint (if it is actually old), but I can live with a small patch. Or multiple patches below the surface.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]138015[/ATTACH]

No epoxy is a glue, not a coating. If it is a crack in the ply, it needs to be fixed. Does it penetrate all the way through, is there any evidence of what caused it? A bump or collision? If it is stable, pushing in filled epoxy might do it, or it will need repaired by gluing in a spline or Dutchman. Then if you want to set glass or dynel in epoxy over the repair.

[rookiejack]

Re: Bilge Restoration

It does penetrate all the way. At least the grain of the ply on the inside of the wound is raised a bit. So I was going to sand, GitRot, then Formula 27 thanks to YouTube. But that guy was also patching wood, not fiberglass, so it's on to YouTubing patching glassed wood with dynel, which I've never used.

Funny, because when the guy sold it to me, I said "I can fix her up. I know what to do with wood. I don't know anything about fiberglass."

Joke's on me.

I also noticed today that the way the boat is resting on the trailer is causing the underside to warp and bend inward. So I've got several things working against me.

[pcford]

Re: Bilge Restoration

I restored runabouts for forty years. My judgement would be to replace the bottom. Fir plywood is a poor material. It often has voids; rot will just shoot along these voids.
Flip the boat over and put on a new bottom...you will have to scarf the pieces...used to be you could buy extra length plywood. I don't know if that is still possible. Glueing pieces together is not that hard. Good luck.
Better to do that than spot patch.

[rookiejack]

Re: Bilge Restoration

I wish I had the space, ability, or equipment to flip a runabout over, but as it is I'm stuck with what I can do for her while she is on a trailer.

[willin woodworks]

Re: Bilge Restoration

I cannot speak to Total Boat penetrating epoxy as I've never used it. I have used System Three Penetrating Epoxy, and I can tell you it is NOT the same as Smiths CPES.
Never used Formula27 either but it appears to be polyester resin,like Bondo, in which case it is not suitable for a boat. Stay with epoxy products. I use the ubiquitous WEST System.
Don't try to fix leaks from the inside, it is just bad practice. The water may stop pooling in the bilge, but the water may be creeping through the hull.
Can we have more pics of the boat, hull, on the trailer, technicalnotart photos.
fer instance, is the hull glassed? and with what?(polyester or epoxy,fiberglass or dynel)
A lightly built boat like this sitting on an improper trailer can do damage that cant be easily seen.not just rot, but very slight distortion in the bottom, known as "hook".

TotalBoat penetrating epoxy is as good as Smith's in my opinion. Right off the pumps its thicker than Smith's so I cut it with denatured alcohol to make it watery. its also much easier to get than Smith's. Id CPES the bilge like Bruce says but I'd then hot coat it with EZpoxy to make it clean and easy to clean in the future.

[peter radclyffe]

Re: Bilge Restoration

Ok cool I was hoping I could use TotalBilge on this. I do know the outer layers of ply are lifting in several areas. Just barely. Not enough for the scraper to yank them off yet. I'll watch some YouTube videos about rot-hunting by sound, etc. Thanks for the tips. Is there any product (like formula 27 or something) that I can use to fill in any seams or leaks on this side before painting? I know that won't help me with wood rotting from the outside in, but I'm hoping it's a start.

Totalbilge troll.is that like owatrol

[peter radclyffe]

Re: Bilge Restoration

We've been waiting years for that stuff

[pcford]

Re: Bilge Restoration

I wish I had the space, ability, or equipment to flip a runabout over, but as it is I'm stuck with what I can do for her while she is on a trailer.

To roll over small plywood boat.
1. Unload from trailer.
2. Put a piece of wood across beam.
3. Put several old tires along one side.
4. Call a few friends to help.
5. Offer a refreshing beverage after task is accomplished.