Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

[wizbang 13]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

What disaster awaits the boat exactly if the check is filled with epoxy?
" push the stress elsewhere"...where? stress will happen when she swells
will the frames break?
will the rivets rip through the wood?
folks read the DANGERS of epoxy and think it dooms a boat

one could wax and launch, I'd epoxy it.

[sp_clark]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

What disaster awaits the boat exactly if the check is filled with epoxy?
" push the stress elsewhere"...where? stress will happen when she swells

Sure.

Still, doing a repair that builds confidence in learning an unfamiliar technique may be a more meaningful experience than simply "fill it with epoxy" then forget about it.

Until something else shows up that needs fixing.

Dif'rent strokes....

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

What disaster awaits the boat exactly if the check is filled with epoxy?

The pine plank will take up and swell. The epoxy will not yield and so will crush the edges of the split. Then, as the wood dries again, the split will open up once more.
Now by gluing in a spline of the same species, the spline will move with the plank wood, just as if there were no splits to open up.
Plywood and strip planked boats behave differently.

[Scary Borg Craft]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

I had a much bigger split on one of my planks, and i just filled it with "ettan" before lauching, it always swelled up after.

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

I had a much bigger split on one of my planks, and i just filled it with "ettan" before lauching, it always swelled up after.

Ettan chewing tobacco?

Those splits are a tad wide, but if she is to be used in salt water, rather than the northern Baltic, and the splits were narrow, household soap would do.

[heimlaga]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

First and foremost. If you are into woodworking you can repair it. That is a way to nice boat to cut up for firewood.


You could either shift a piece of plank or rout a groove and glue in a pine spline.

The steps in shifting a piece of planking. I take it in Swedish for you. The others already know how to do it.

-Slipa bort nitskallarna på insidan med vinkelslipmaskin. Det ser ut att vara kopparnitar som är nitade över en konisk briska på insidan. Det räcker med att slipa bort litet av toppen så släpper niten.
-Såga av bordet så du får loss biten som skall bytas. Såga litet snett så att ju längre upp du för den nya brädan ju tätare blir den i ändorna. Du måste såga båda utifrån och inifrån försiktigt med spetsen på en ryggsåg (eller japansåg med rygg) för att såga av hela bordet utan att skada varken bordet ovanför eller nedanför. Lugnt och fint. Ingen brådska.
-Hugg bort trä runt nithuvudena på utsidan i nederkant av det dåliga bordet med ett stämjärn så du får fram dem och kan dra ut dem med hovtång. Tänk efter och tänk igen. Lugnt och fint. Fråga oss om du är osäker. Du skall bara hugga runt nithuvuden på den bordbiten som skall bort. Ingen annanstans. Inget våld och ingen brådska.
-Hugg bort litet trä runt nitbrickorna på insidan av det dåliga bordet med ett ovasst dåligt stämjärn så du får bort brickorna och får fram själva niten. Igen en gång skall du bara hugga i bordet du skall byta och ingen annanstans. Ta det lugnt. Det går bra det här men man får inte stressa. Värm en nit i gången med lödkolv från utsidan så den släpper ut lack och målfärg och knacka ut den försiktigt från insidan med en liten hammare medan den är varm. Peta försiktigt bort nitbrickorna från de nitarna som går igenom de basade spanten i överkant av det dåliga bordet. När niten är värmd kan du försiktigt knacka ut den med en vanlig två och en halv tums trådspik som dorn. Du filar setsen av spiken du skall använda som dorn så hålls den på niten.
-Kila försiktigt loss det dåliga bordet med små träkilar som du knackar in försiktigt. Dra ut det neråt. Eftersom ändorna är kapade snett går bordet att dra ut neråt.
-Skrapa bort linolja/tjära och bomull av landen (överlappen) med varmluftspistol och skrapa. Ha ett vattenämbar till hands och någon stadig läderhandske för små brandungar för bomullen kan flamma upp.

Nu har du kommit halvvägs.

-Hyvla en ny bräda till rätt tjocklek. Det skall vara ganska mycket för bred. Mariginal för justerng och misstag.
- Basa den nya brädan til ungefär rätt krökning. Har du inte någon basanränna där du kan ångkoka brädan i 10 minuter så bara lindar du in den i trasor och häller kokande vatten över. När den är mjuk böjer du den över en improviserad mall med litet större krökning än den skall ha i båten. Det måste gå extremt snabbt att få brädan i spänn på mallen och få på skruvtvingar. Det går kanske av när du gör det första gången som nybörjare men i så fall hyvlar du bara en ny bräda. Vedpannan äter upp alla våra misstag. Kärnsisan på brädan skall normalt vara inåt i båten men se efter hur det gamla bordet är vänt.
-Efter ett par dygn håller det nya bordet formen och går att ta av mallen.
-Såga till överkanten och ändorna enligt gamla bordet som du tog bort. Lämna litet extra material i ändorna för finpassning och för att kompenserav för sågbladets tjocklek.
-Kopiera vinkeln på landet på övre kanten av gamla bordet. Använd en smygvinkel. Vinkeln ändras kontinuerligt längs bordetså prova på flera ställen och hyvla inte bort allt på en gång. Hellre prova fler gånger än ta bort för mycket.
-Prova nya bordet på sin plats. Prova många gånger och hyvla och justera litet varje gång både på landet och på ändorna tills allting är tätt. Om överkanten inte blev snygg och i linje med det gamla hyvlar man den till rätt kurva.
-När bordet är på plats och allt är tätt ritar du ett streck inifrån längs övre kanten å bordet under. Du ritar också streck på ändorna av nya bordet längs undre kanten på ändorna på de gamla borden som ändorna stöter mot. När du sedan tar loss det nya bordet kan du rita ut nederkanten med de här strecken att utgå ifrån.
-Såga ut och hyvla nederkanten på bordet.
-Stryk antingen outspädd kokt linolja eller en blandning av kokt linolja och tjära på landen både på det nya bordet och på de gamla ovanför och nedanför och på ändträet i skarven. Lägg en liten sträng bomullsvadd på landen på de gamla borden och på ändträet.
-Sätt nya bordet på plats.
-Borra nithål i nya bordet enligt de gamla hålen i borden ovanför och under. Hålen skall ha andingen samma diameter som sidmåttet på de fyrkantiga kopparspikarna eller aningen större. Mindre än diagonamåttet på de fyrkantiga spikarna. Ofta blir det 2mm. Man borrar med en gammaldags handvevad drillborr som man vevar ett halvt varv fram och tillbaka fram och tillbaka när man borrar. Detta för att inte vadden skall nysta sig runt borren.
-Försänk för spikarna på utsidan av underkanten av nya bordet. Jag försänker på traditionellt vis med en skölp som jag bara skär för hand med. Ungefär 2-2,5mm djup försänkning med plan botten.
-Slå in spikarna.
-Be någon bekant eller frun eller någon annan hålla emot spikarna på utsidan med en stamp. Min stamp är gjord av en 25 cm stump av en torosionsstång från en skrotad bil med ena ändan smärglad till lämplig diameter för att passa i försänkningarna och med en grop borrad i ändan. Andra ändan av stampen är inpassad i ett hål i en träkloss med lämplig form så man kan trycka mot med kroppen med stor kraft utan att det gör ont.
Ta en spik i gången och när frun håller emot slår du på brickan på inre ändan av spiken. För att få på den behöver du en dorn med hål i. En stump av en avbruten stenborr till en Cobra bergsborrmaskin blir en bra dorn för de borrarnahar ju hål i mitten för spolluften men du kan klara dg med en klen rörstump om ingen du känner borrar i berg. När du har slagit på brickan kniper du av spiken med en kraftig hovtång och nitar den med lätta slag av en liten kulhammare. Sedan ber du frun flytta sig till nästa spik och nästa och så fortsätter ni.
-Såga till laskbrickor (brädbitarna på insidorna av skarven. De skall vara lika tjocka som bordet och ha kärnan vänd åt samma sida som bordet vanligen inåt.
-Stryk på samma blandning och lägg litet bumullsvadd emellan och nita fast dem på samma vis som du nitade det andra.

Färdigt!

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

First and foremost. If you are into woodworking you can repair it. That is a way to nice boat to cut up for firewood.


You could either shift a piece of plank or rout a groove and glue in a pine spline.

The steps in shifting a piece of planking. I take it in Swedish for you. The others already know how to do it.

Färdigt!

I trust that you noticed this is a cheaply built boat with (Horror) butt blocks? It does make the word easier, if you have enough goop to seal the joints.

[heimlaga]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

I trust that you noticed this is a cheaply built boat with (Horror) butt blocks? It does make the word easier, if you have enough goop to seal the joints.

In Blekinge they don't know what a plank scarph is. It is akin to showing a hewn garboard to an Englisman. Unknown. They have been using butt blocks for centuries on all boats both cheap and expensive. I don't like butt blocks personally but that is their way of doing it and somehow it seems to work well enough for them.
To me it looks a bit cheap but not too cheap. Softwood and a rather rough finish is tradition and common practice in most of Scandinavia. The joints look reasonably tight and that is what really counts.

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

In Blekinge they don't know what a plank scarph is. It is akin to showing a hewn garboard to an Englisman. Unknown. They have been using butt blocks for centuries on all boats both cheap and expensive. I don't like butt blocks personally but that is their way of doing it and somehow it seems to work well enough for them.
To me it looks a bit cheap but not too cheap. Softwood and a rather rough finish is tradition and common practice in most of Scandinavia. The joints look reasonably tight and that is what really counts.

I don't like but blocks on clinker either. There is a straight through leak path where the butt block lays against the inner plank edge. Still TRADITION.
Rough is OK in the right place. Our local builders did not plane the inner side of the bottom plank, unless they needed to back out, as the rough sawn surface absorbed the tar better.

[Steven johnson]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

Hello all and I really appreciate all the input and thoughts on my little 13" project, I realized that it would be a massive ammout of knowledge gathering, tools acquisition, trial and error plus forum communications, what I did not expect was debates on local build styles with it's pros and cons, no matter I am enlighted by the discussion and I hope you guys will support!.
This will be a slow project!!

I think all of you have very decent points and extraordinary competence and I hope and wish for guidance on the project so I figure I make a rough plan, post my view on way forward and share pictures, and hope for your feedback.

Again this project might end up in a supersized wooden boat style flowerpot, but I really hope to row her and do some net fishing in the archipelago 2024..

[Steven johnson]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

Hello,
I have now spent some time craping with a heatgun and also used some paint stripper to get the varnish away from the hull.
After this I washed the boat with water and it has dried a couple of days in summer weather.
So, is there any good way to know if every bit of varnish/treatment is gone?
Is it ultra important that every inch is stripped before oiling with raw cold pressed oil?
Also should I mix any toxic in the oil or even turpentine? I read somewhere that the molekyles of the raw oil was smaller so it was no need..

It looks like this now:

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

Raw oil will eventually turn black. If you can get hold of some old-fashioned spirit based wood preservative, then dilute the oil with it. It will soak in deeper and will not discolour over time. Wood turpentine is also an alternative, or use Deks Olja D 1.
I would do any repairs and sand the hull first.
Glue might not stick to the oily wood, and sanding oily wood can be a PITA.
After the wood has been oiled, you should only use traditional varnish/paint, or Deks Olja D2, as polyurethane finishes did not stick to oil based paints. They may do now, but . . .

[sp_clark]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

I have now spent some time (s)craping with a heatgun and also used some paint stripper to get the varnish away from the hull.
After this I washed the boat with water and it has dried a couple of days in summer weather.
So, is there any good way to know if every bit of varnish/treatment is gone?

Go back and use a sponge or water-wet rag over selected areas of that hull to wet out what you have now. Look carefully for spots that don't change color or 'lightness' once the water's been applied. Areas that might still have varnish or something else remaining behind will look different somehow. You'll have to look close to see the difference, but it'll be there. Varnish or oily contamination will resist the water penetrating what's underneath while what you've cleaned up and exposed will readily suck up some of the water and will change in appearance.

Is it ultra important that every inch is stripped before oiling with raw cold pressed oil?

Depends on how good a job you want to come out of your effort and when you expect to have to go back and maybe do some touch-ups. Really small areas that have bits of varnish left will still allow whatever you put on next to creep underneath as the wood is penetrated. Problem being the result won't be as uniform as you may want it to be if some areas where the left behind stuff is large enough that what's underneath is starved for the new finish coating. As the old stuff above deteriorates over time the wood underneath doesn't have as much protection as what you cleaned off better that took in more of the new finish.

As Nick is telling it, don't use raw oil. You won't like the result, besides making next steps more difficult.

Also should I mix any toxic in the oil or even turpentine? I read somewhere that the molekyles of the raw oil was smaller so it was no need..

Thinner is better when it comes to getting finishes to penetrate wood grain. Even if the oil molecules are small, when left un-thinned its viscosity (viskositet) slows penetration for a proper job of it unless you keep adding coat after coat after coat to keep the surface wetted out over time.

Adding a thinner like turpentine (the real stuff, not something made from petroleum) reduces the viscosity so those small oil molecules aren't as sticky and penetrate more easily before the thinner evaporates away. Adding some kind of preservative to the thinner like copper naphthenate -

Copper_Preservative.jpg

- enhances the preservative effect of the solution you're applying to the newly-exposed wood grain.

With raw oil what you're left with is sticky, oily wood that won't properly dry for years and will resist pretty much any kind of more durable finish you might want to apply.

There are many products out there (what we have available here in the US is different from what's available in the UK or Sweden) so look around your local boat supply shops for what you can find, come back here & let us know. Products with a good reputation for ease of use and durability are what you want. Doing a 'home-brew' finish can take more time, work and money than using something that's been proven to work well.

It looks like this now:

Looks a lot better than in your first pics! You're doing a fine job of it, keep up the good work & come back here again as you progress!

[Steven johnson]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

Thanks a million for the input, I will check the surface with a sponge and seek for areas where I need to spend more time with.
My intention is to paint the hull white as I was tole that the planks are not really "as good looking" as needed for a varnish boat, and I also read somewhere that a white painted hull seems more resistable to our nature, so what I need to understans is the ground work (impregnation as you suppored with) and what paint to use on top of this.
I will investigate in my local stores and get back with what they suggest!

Again thanks for great support!

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Anyone that can share a opinion on this object?

Thanks a million for the input, I will check the surface with a sponge and seek for areas where I need to spend more time with.
My intention is to paint the hull white as I was tole that the planks are not really "as good looking" as needed for a varnish boat, and I also read somewhere that a white painted hull seems more resistable to our nature, so what I need to understans is the ground work (impregnation as you suppored with) and what paint to use on top of this.
I will investigate in my local stores and get back with what they suggest!

Again thanks for great support!

OK, but do not paint the inside white. Any bright sunny days will dazzle you as you use the boat. Use a pale blue, pale green or pale grey. Any off-white but not pure white.
There will be good marine paints available from your chandlers. Follow the instructions' vis primer, under coat and top coat.
Personally, I favour International Clear Primer.
Mind you, from what your picture show, the wood looks OK. There is a bit of blue mould staining, but a wood bleach will remove that.