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  • #46
    Re: Caulking Problems

    Originally posted by chas
    "It looks to me from the interior shot that the planks were scarfed with resorcinol glue."

    Could those 3" thick plank scarfs also be drift fastened for added security? / Jim
    It would be good if they were, it would make a temporary fix more secure.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

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    • #47
      Re: Caulking Problems

      I was thinking more on original install, Nick. And if so, would a proper re-caulk of the split seams and scarf joints be a satisfactory repair, assuming other factors besides drying out are not in play? / Jim

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      • #48
        Re: Caulking Problems

        Originally posted by chas
        I was thinking more on original install, Nick. And if so, would a proper re-caulk of the split seams and scarf joints be a satisfactory repair, assuming other factors besides drying out are not in play? / Jim
        That depends on the number and size of the fastenings. The builder did intend the glue to do the work, so if there are fastenings, they may be skimpy. A poke about with feeler gauges seems to be in order.
        It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

        The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
        The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

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        • #49
          Re: Caulking Problems

          I thank everyone for your replies.

          The yacht is only double planked from about 8" above the waterline down. Topsides AYC planks that are about 4" wide, quite narrow I'd say. There was no leaking from the broken scarfs, the leaks came in through the open seams on that 40 minute ride. There are open seams on both port and starboard sides, but worse on the starboard. I have found one broken scarf on the port side.

          I'm now in Mexico, and there is no oakum or cotton onboard the yacht. After the haul out and rough ride, I did a temp caulking job with some cotton string, which was all I could get. It was either that or cut up an old T- shirt. After caulking with the string, I put 3M blue tape over the seams painted over it, and then sailed 200 miles south of Mazatlán where I am now.

          If any of you guys are retired and love wooden boats, and know how to fix this problem, you're invited to come on down and help me. I don't have any tools. When i purchased the yacht I was promised a lot of tools all were stolen before I took possession. I tried to haul out in the US, but no yard would do it without insurance, which I couldn't get. So I sailed down to Ensenada. Ensenada couldn't lift the yacht, as she was too heavy for their travel lift. They had a ways at another boatyard, but it had a project for the next year. So I single-handed down the coast myself.

          Cheers
          Last edited by Leviathan; 01-25-2023, 08:43 PM.

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          • #50
            Re: Caulking Problems

            ^ You should be able to buy caulking irons and a mallet on eBay. Any NATURAL fiber will do for caulking. Some people use coconut husks as that is all that they have got. Workboats use cement and linseed oil to pay the seams. Mix cement with water to a thick paste, then mix in linseed oil to a putty consistency. That will deal with the seams.
            Were the seams originally glued, or were they caulked conventionally?
            It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

            The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
            The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

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            • #51
              Re: Caulking Problems

              Those topside seams look to me to have been given the router/tube caulking treatment. If you remove the string and tape, then provide some decent pics of your troubled area, you might secure some proper advice as to your way forward. I for one would appreciate some interior pics as well; we all love cruising boats here. / Jim

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              • #52
                Re: Caulking Problems

                Originally posted by chas
                Those topside seams look to me to have been given the router/tube caulking treatment. If you remove the string and tape, then provide some decent pics of your troubled area, you might secure some proper advice as to your way forward. I for one would appreciate some interior pics as well; we all love cruising boats here. / Jim
                Tomorrow I will take some shots of trouble areas. For now some shots of the inside.





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                • #53
                  Re: Caulking Problems

                  Originally posted by Leviathan
                  Tomorrow I will take some shots of trouble areas. For now some shots of the inside.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]128076[/ATTACH]

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]128077[/ATTACH]

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]128078[/ATTACH]
                  Unfortunately, those images don't show. Seems they didn't upload correctly.
                  "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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                  • #54
                    Re: Caulking Problems

                    Originally posted by Lemsteraak
                    Wow, I think we need to know the history of your boat. OK, I want to know the history ;-), seriously ,it will help determine how your boat is built because it doesn't sound like typical materials or methods.

                    For example, Alaskan Yellow Cedar is a wonderful wood, quite special but doesn't hold paint or glue particularly well. I'm caulking an AYC deck and using an enhanced method of cleaning the join with acetone, then a special primer, then a special Sika caulking compound. The wood is so soft I can't use a reefing hook to clean the old rubber out of the join as I'll tear the wood. My point is, I've never seen a AYC hull. I can go to a friend who had a tug with AYC planking but your boat's construction method sounds different.

                    I'm not a boatbuilder but I do know a little about how they think. The first question, is your boat a bowl or a basket? Is your boat designed to flex? A lapstrake boat is flexible, a basket, designed to flex, has wood on wood joins and needs water to swell the wood for a watertight joint. If you use new methods like epoxy, you can damage it because it may not have the flexibility needed. They tell me sometimes the old ways are the best ways.

                    The more information you give these guys, the better they can advise you. I can attest to the depth of knowledge the group here has, it is profound.
                    somebody done told you wrong about AYC. It takes epoxy and paint very well.Many vessels are planked with it.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Caulking Problems

                      Originally posted by Garret
                      Unfortunately, those images don't show. Seems they didn't upload correctly.
                      Or the WBF is dying a slow death from lack of maintenance.

                      I had some image files 'fail to upload' as expected recently, same display as what yours generated. I checked the JPG'd files in Photoshop, re-saved then re-uploaded them without changing anything, they displayed just fine.

                      More to your topic though I have to wonder who all's owned this National Treasure (Nick Cage comes to mind) given its illustrious background but evident flaws, beginning to suspect it was built as it was intended for a museum display (or a movie prop?) perhaps rather than a life on the water?
                      "Because we are not divine, we must jettison the many burdens we cannot bear."

                      Mark Helprin, 2017

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                      • #56
                        Re: Caulking Problems

                        Originally posted by sp_clark
                        More to your topic though I have to wonder who all's owned this National Treasure (Nick Cage comes to mind) given its illustrious background but evident flaws, beginning to suspect it was built as it was intended for a museum display (or a movie prop?) perhaps rather than a life on the water?
                        George Calkins, designer and builder of the Bartender powerboat, among others.

                        "Between 1937 and 1946 George built a string of highly successful commercial fishing boats for the NW salmon and tuna fisheries. Some of these boats are still working today."



                        The boat was built by George Calkins for his personal use.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Caulking Problems

                          This thread presents come cognitive dilemmas for us forumites:


                          The information provided to us by the OP is listed below in rough order of importance.


                          1. OP asks for help in solving problem
                          2. Previously dry boat leaks water in moderate weather after drying out
                          3. Leaking was life-threatening
                          4. Upon returning to port multiple planking seams had opened above the water line when inspected from outside
                          5. Hull construction is carvel, double-planked below water line: lignin vitae below, AYC above with full ceiling preventing inspection of inside of planks.
                          6. One AWL planking scarf while slightly open on outside did not leak



                          By inference, the OP is asking for help in preventing problem in future as well as fixing problem as it currently exists. Also by inference, boat is currently in the water, not leaking from BWL seams.


                          Since we don’t know what the conditions of the seams were just prior to launch, we are forced to speculate on three probabilities:


                          1. Are the current open seams the cause of the leaking in the circumstances we know to be true?
                          2. Is it possible to open previously closed AWL seams simply by sailing in a gale using optimal seamanship and have this be the cause of the leaking?
                          3. Is it possible that there are other factors that would cause a normally dry boat to leak under the circumstances we know to be true (gale force winds) from locations other than open AWL seams?



                          How do we approach these three hypotheses given the pre-test probabilities?


                          To test 1(above), with a pre-test probability of 0.90, the seams are closed using the normal methods of rehydration and/or repair and the hull is re-exposed to circumstances which caused it to leak originally.


                          To test 2 (above) of an unknown probability to me (but I expect extremely small), one would have to expose the boat to a gale after ruling out 1 and 3.


                          To test 3 (above), with a pre-test probability of 0.10 and taking into account the assumed similar seamanship in weathering gales both before and after the period of drying out, the hull is hauled and both it and the rigging are carefully examined for defects which are known to explain leaking in a gale in a previously dry boat.


                          It appears to me and to the OP, I think, that the issues of plank scarfing, planking materials, glue type, construction techniques, and brickbats are less germane than testing likely hypotheses in order of likelihood, especially given the life-threatening circumstances.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Caulking Problems

                            ^ You have missed one thing. The open seams were on the side exposed to hot sun for a week.
                            It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

                            The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
                            The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Caulking Problems

                              Life-threatening circumstances, seriously?? Let’s wait for pics before jumping to conclusions, eh? / Jim

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                              • #60
                                Re: Caulking Problems

                                are the main plank seams close fitted, without caulking, it may be the glued scarfs are the only thing wrong with this construction, it seems odd that calkins decided on these things, usually scarfs are glued but not cut like this

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