Tripled planked yacht repair.

[Larks]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Fiji kauri is not the same as NZ kauri even if it is the sames species in the same way that NZ Doug fir isn't anywhere imported Oregon, so I wouldn't personally assume that , Greg.

True that and I’m pretty sure that it has been discussed here before now that I think of it (or maybe some other woodworking forum???) - example Queensland Kauri v NZ Kauri: they look remarkably similar, almost identical as young trees (ie up to 15 years old anyway, three that I planted still look identical to some planted at the same time in Kerikeri) but the Qld Kauri apparently doesn’t have the same rot resistance properties as the NZ Kauri.

[Paul G.]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Has the OP started? Having a good look at the photo my advice re the hull is pretty much the same as before. It's stuffed as is and needs a lot of work! Glued 3 skin boats were often built 45-45-90 as this one is or mostly 90 depending on the hull shape. The glue almost 100% bound to be resorcinol and it has failed in places, splining it is a total waste of time, just use epoxy filler but before that you need to tap the hull and find the delaminated sections. Tappity tap tap all over it and you will hear the difference, it will sound hollow, now get your chalk out and mark the area. Once you have identified all the delaminated areas the fun begins, if they are small, few and far between then you can drill a small entry hole and squirt a sloppy mix of epoxy glue in there, an exit hole may be required. Larger areas need the same treatment and possibly a few rivets. Once youve done that you need to fill and fair in preparation for a heavy double bias epoxy sheathing. The fairing is a monster job so get help. The way to do the glassing involves precutting the glass to size and rolling it up on cardboard tubes then when you are ready to go unroll them on your glassing table and mix up the same weight of epoxy as cloth, use the slowest hardener and wet it out fully, roll it up again before offering it to the boat starting at the gunwale (make sure you have a mate) and work your way around. Then the fairing begins again lol! It will take you about 3-4 weeks full time on your own to get most of it done, but you will need a mate to help with a few bits. Good luck!

[Paul G.]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Ive done the work on 3 skin boats, when they are really stuffed you need to scarf in new planking- trust me it's a big job and not to be taken on lightly by one man on a budget.

Before

October 09, 2011-October 09, 2011_001-5.jpg


October 24, 2011-20111024-DSC_1776.jpg

[Paul G.]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Also it doesnt really matter what kind of timber is used either in the construction or rebuild as long as it is sound and dry. Epoxy will take care of any durability issues on the rebuild side and it must be reasonably sound to have lasted this long, Id just use whatever is handy, clear, not too brittle or soft and cheap.

[wizbang 13]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

So much work… so much material
I’m not a fan of cold molded/ hot molded/ triple skin /whatever the hell this boat is boats.
…and now you know why

[John B]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

This happens all the time , the worst cases get presented as typical of type. I've only ever owned multi skin boats,
The first one I owned( own) is built in 1907, I sailed it hard for 25 plus years and is in my shed now. ( 41 ft).She's in a cradle on her keel and has a bow and a stern prop, occasionally when I mess up and bump the prop it falls out because there's no sagging or weight in the ends of the hull. If she was some old carvel she'd be bent over her cradle like an old boot.
The modern we own was built over 1974 for the 75 season and is 4 skins of kauri resorcinol glued. The thing is a rock, nearly 50 years old and has a 20 year old paint job. the cupboards don't move and will open in 30 knots on the wind and she doesn't creak , groan or move.
The op boat is not a pro build and clearly has not been maintained, deck / clamp leaks have been allowed to continue and she's rotted in her planking , the same as any other wooden boat.
What my friend Paul might not have mentioned with his amazing repair and restoration is that that particular boat was also unmaintained, raced hard and ignored, left to rot and was the bargain of the town because of it. It was also not built of proper boatbuilding timber. The variety being the very type Capt James Cook discovered for the English navy in 17sixty whatever , harvested for spars and became profoundly disgusted as it rotted in front of his eyes. You could build a moored boat of aircraft spruce and it'll be light and fast and pretty for a few years I bet, ain't going to be around in 50 years though, or if it is ,its been put to bed with a blanky every night and talked to nicely. Kahikatea is like that. You can encapsulate it and it'll have a good life but it doesn't have have the redundancy /rot tolerance of kauri.
Our multi skin kauri boats are a bit different though , they speak for themselves because they are still there and a restoration , although less than simple ,usually ends up with a nominal 100 year old boat retaining a hand on heart 90 %( plus or minus a small figure )of its original hull and structure. This is no exaggeration, time and time again. Rainbow, Rawhiti,Ariki, Ngatira, Iorangi, Rogue,Ida,Gloriana,Yum Yum, Big Thelma, Little Thelma,Pastime, Janet... etc etc All boats in the range of 1886 through 1895 to about 1905. A restoration of one of those boats usually involves a new deck and beams, some clamp work , some hood end work on skins and often beefing up any fixed frames( of which there are not many because they're a monocoque hull relying on a couple or three stringers a side and the hull lamination/ fixing.(copper riveted nails). Garboard work( where have I heard that before) None of this is easy or inexpensive but the point is that the hull is still essentially the same wood as it was built with.
As I've said before the furtherest you can get from one of these 'restorations' where a few cleats and some furniture get tranferred over to a new hull.

My old boat for example, has the decks she was fitted with in 1907. ( those are 2 skin). Now that... that is very unusual.

Anyway.. the defense rests run out of time and my wife is pestering me to go sailing, have to go and get on one of them cold moulded multi skin timber boats made when I was at school ( and good grief, that wuz a looong time ago)and see if there's a fish out there.

[Paul G.]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

So much work… so much material
I’m not a fan of cold molded/ hot molded/ triple skin /whatever the hell this boat is boats.
…and now you know why

Hey Wiz, nice to see you're still here! Most of these old girls that turn up as part of a dream should go to the dumpster or the next man unless there is a careful very conservative assessment of what's involved. Frinstance, at the end will you be the same man, with the same needs? I did a rebuild on a small classic that was perfect for my dream of weekends on the waves but it took so long that my single child who fitted quite nicely at age 3 did not fit at age 12 with his new brother lol!

The other question is whether its worth it, there's a difference between caulking a few planks, sistering a few ribs and slappin' on some yard paint etc, to a boat that needs a rebuild everywhere you look! If you can get one that sails for more upfront, it will be way less in the end and youre on the water. Some people are builders and enjoy their boats as a backyard hobby and thats just fine but you need to work these things out before you start since boats are never cheap, its either time (irreplaceable) or money.

I have seen it so many times that it's sadly predictable, guy gets old boat and criminally underestimates what's involved, spends years rebuilding, guy get old and runs out of steam, health, money, boat gets sold to another man with a dream or is left to compost somewhere.

That is also why I'm a big fan of using plenty of goop on these old girls

[Paul G.]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

This happens all the time , the worst cases get presented as typical of type. I've only ever owned multi skin boats,
The first one I owned( own) is built in 1907, I sailed it hard for 25 plus years and is in my shed now. ( 41 ft).She's in a cradle on her keel and has a bow and a stern prop, occasionally when I mess up and bump the prop it falls out because there's no sagging or weight in the ends of the hull. If she was some old carvel she'd be bent over her cradle like an old boot.
The modern we own was built over 1974 for the 75 season and is 4 skins of kauri resorcinol glued. The thing is a rock, nearly 50 years old and has a 20 year old paint job. the cupboards don't move and will open in 30 knots on the wind and she doesn't creak , groan or move.
The op boat is not a pro build and clearly has not been maintained, deck / clamp leaks have been allowed to continue and she's rotted in her planking , the same as any other wooden boat.
What my friend Paul might not have mentioned with his amazing repair and restoration is that that particular boat was also unmaintained, raced hard and ignored, left to rot and was the bargain of the town because of it. It was also not built of proper boatbuilding timber. The variety being the very type Capt James Cook discovered for the English navy in 17sixty whatever , harvested for spars and became profoundly disgusted as it rotted in front of his eyes. You could build a moored boat of aircraft spruce and it'll be light and fast and pretty for a few years I bet, ain't going to be around in 50 years though, or if it is ,its been put to bed with a blanky every night and talked to nicely. Kahikatea is like that. You can encapsulate it and it'll have a good life but it doesn't have have the redundancy /rot tolerance of kauri.
Our multi skin kauri boats are a bit different though , they speak for themselves because they are still there and a restoration , although less than simple ,usually ends up with a nominal 100 year old boat retaining a hand on heart 90 %( plus or minus a small figure )of its original hull and structure. This is no exaggeration, time and time again. Rainbow, Rawhiti,Ariki, Ngatira, Iorangi, Rogue,Ida,Gloriana,Yum Yum, Big Thelma, Little Thelma,Pastime, Janet... etc etc All boats in the range of 1886 through 1895 to about 1905. A restoration of one of those boats usually involves a new deck and beams, some clamp work , some hood end work on skins and often beefing up any fixed frames( of which there are not many because they're a monocoque hull relying on a couple or three stringers a side and the hull lamination/ fixing.(copper riveted nails). Garboard work( where have I heard that before) None of this is easy or inexpensive but the point is that the hull is still essentially the same wood as it was built with.
As I've said before the furtherest you can get from one of these 'restorations' where a few cleats and some furniture get tranferred over to a new hull.

My old boat for example, has the decks she was fitted with in 1907. ( those are 2 skin). Now that... that is very unusual.

Anyway.. the defense rests run out of time and my wife is pestering me to go sailing, have to go and get on one of them cold moulded multi skin timber boats made when I was at school ( and good grief, that wuz a looong time ago)and see if there's a fish out there.

JB, good to see you making the most of the respite from these cursed easterlies, catch some fish and go yachting! We have had one day of summer here in AK, mind you the garden didnt need watering!

There is a huge difference between restoring/rebuilding a classic yacht that has significant provenance, elegance, history, emotional connection etc and some nondescript vessel. Moreover, the materials its made from matter as well as the original workmanship and attention to detail. Of course all of this is irrelevant if you're madly in love! I look at a "proper" resto like Tally Ho and appreciate everything about it- but the amount of work is MASSIVE! So much donated labour, materials, time as well as paid work and a very skilful media/patreon platform to fund it and they are still miles away! I think the trick is to buy a boat that has been restored or nearly so, it will be pennies on the dollar then go sailing asap and make the most of it before the next date with the hardstand!