Tripled planked yacht repair.

[raven mad]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

There seems to be quite a few butt joints along the way. Iberia been working with timber my whole life, and wondered about this seeming inconsistency. I was thinking of dove tailing a butt joint.
prob a silly idea, but my sentiment is there. To avoid a bad butt.

Im wondering if I pull off outer skin, ad membrane and epoxy new skin back on?

does anyone know a wooden boat builder in Sydney?
boat lays in wait Dural way.

Many thanks for thoughts. I’m taking them onboard.

[raven mad]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

No. Some boats are dead after 30 years, some after 50. Being an antique is not a measure of boat quality.
As she is copper fastened, you can repair her, if you cut back the plank ends properly. You must avoid having plank buts in a straight line, stagger them, or cut them at an angle, and ensure that you put plenty of fastenings in both but ends into the inner veneers.
The biggest issue is finding a suitable squidgy filler to go in-between all those seams as she takes up.
Paint sticks to dry wood much better than to wet.

Thanks
so those gaps obviously concerned me. Having shrunk, the anti foul is falling off.
Would you fill gaps with what sort of material, squidgy filler is not my forte.
would you take off final layer and cold mould? Sheath?

ill try and get more history. All I know isn’t she is 100% kauri

all the rest seems to be in very good nick.

[raven mad]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Here are some mor pics. It has a new keel, cost em 5k!

deck is in good nick
they started sanding back, but I will re epoxy and paint.
A deck is still a roof.

[Larks]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

I’d say most of the opposition to fibreglass sheathing a hull is in cases where it is done to a good solid historical hull where the thought is that it has ruined the historical integrity of the original build.

The other dislike for it is likely due to it being used to cover up rot and damage rather than properly repairing it, making buyers wary of some fibreglassed hulls (there was one sad case on this forum recently that "seemed" to have been sold to a forum member without the previous owner declaring to the buyer what had been done.....)

But the reality is that fibreglass sheathing a timber hull, whether from build or as an afterthought, is a perfectly adequate and appropriate practice for many perfectly good reasons and your kauri hull looks like it’s worth repairing and I’d say is a good candidate for sheathing.

I wouldn’t be taking any timber layers of the hull off and I wouldn’t be filling any of the gaps in the timber with any “goop”. If you do decide to fibreglass sheath it I’m inclined to think that the most suitable way to deal with the gaps may be to spline the gaps in that outer layer with something like cedar - or kauri if you could get some - fare the hull smooth and fibreglass it.....

In the meantime, it will help anyone who comes to look at it if you continue to strip all of that old paint back to bare wood to get a clear view of the condition of the timber and any fastenings. It will need to be done anyway and it’s not like it’s going to dry out any more.

Hard to know really without more details and without seeing it but I’d also suspect that, given what has been said so far, you’ll be wanting to pay close attention to how the hull is fastened to the frames, what condition the fasteners are in and whether it needs any refastening. Are the frames in good condition? Would adding any more fasteners through to the frames all the way around before glassing the hull cause them to split?

With the frames so widely spaced, adding sister frames or even additional intermediate frames for additional fastenings if needed wouldn’t be obtrusive.

There are plenty of wooden boat builders in Sydney and someone here may come back with a recommendation but I’d suggest that you may need to shop around to see who will repair it in the manner that you prefer. Each of them may have varying ideas as to how to repair this hull depending on their own experience with this sort of build - if anyone in Sydney has had experience with this sort of build - but no boat builder worth his salt will suggest a repair without inspecting it first anyway (perhaps be wary of anyone who does without seeing it......)

It may be worth your while dropping a few emails to wooden boat restorers in NZ to see what their experience with repairing these hulls is, that is where most of the expertise in this method of construction would likely be located.

[John B]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

There's quite a bit that isn't sounding usual about this boat. Its not laid up like a 1920's boat, it doesn't look like a 1920's boat, it looks like a 40's plus design constructed like a glued 60's design to me.
The NZ boats of the turn of that century plus or minus derived their structural strength from the monocoque of multi skins , mechanically fastened on minimal frames and stringers, and their water tightness from the outer caulked skin , which was inevitably fore and aft.
Although there is much anecdote about fabric between skins I have never seen it or evidence of it as practise here. Neither in construction photos or on inspection of hulls as they have been restored. I don't believe it was general practise at all, although I'm sure there will be a few boats where it was done.
Anyway, this one with its outer skin being diagonal is quite unusual , who built it?
What design is it?
Is it really a NZ boat ?
What would be helpful is to understand why it is remembered as NZ and to see a full hull photo to get a better idea of its likely design.

[raven mad]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

I’ll try and get so e answers.
just going on what I was told.
Hold tight!

[raven mad]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Thanks for reply.
Would I need to detach keel or just seal it up?
what you say sounds good. I’d rather have an epoxy hull than worms!
i saw a timber boat, all bounce pine, the caprice of houn? Somthing like that, a very $$$ yacht at rush utters bay, about 50’ I thought it was a glass hull, but hull was splined and faired to perfection. Amazing job. I’ll go amd get a photo

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Thanks
so those gaps obviously concerned me. Having shrunk, the anti foul is falling off.
Would you fill gaps with what sort of material, squidgy filler is not my forte.
would you take off final layer and cold mould? Sheath?

ill try and get more history. All I know isn’t she is 100% kauri

all the rest seems to be in very good nick.

If you are up for the work, taking off the outer layer, refastening the inner skins where necessary and epoxying a new outer skin in place would be a good solution. A bit like what the Pardys did with Curlew. You still have to stagger the buts on the inner skins. Dovetailing adds no value, each skin supports the butt of the next one. Just ensure that the butts are adequately fastened.

[JamesCaird]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Hi Guys- thinking along these same lines: It looks like the glue between layers has failed and may be a more general condition. My boat had rot from the deck edge down in quadrupal diagonal layers with the outer layer fore and aft 3/4 inch fir but only in the stern (the last 14 ft of the boat. Also had to rebuild the stern post.
This subject boat may be saved by fastening through the good existing layers and adding a couple (at least) of veneer (1/8" or more) layers in epoxy. I think Peeria Maa is puting Pardeys and Carrs together but Curlew (Carrs) was sheathed in NZ. I was with them and on the Curlew in S.Georgia in the early 2000's and she was still bulletproff. Although they never did sail Curlew away.
There are a number of smaller boats around here which have been overplanked with veneers in epoxy and they are holding up. I am not a fan of fiberglassing over as in my experience it produces a moisture trap and a biological experiment. Best wishes/ JC

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Hi Guys- thinking along these same lines: It looks like the glue between layers has failed and may be a more general condition. My boat had rot from the deck edge down in quadrupal diagonal layers with the outer layer fore and aft 3/4 inch fir but only in the stern (the last 14 ft of the boat. Also had to rebuild the stern post.
This subject boat may be saved by fastening through the good existing layers and adding a couple (at least) of veneer (1/8" or more) layers in epoxy. I think Peeria Maa is puting Pardeys and Carrs together but Curlew (Carrs) was sheathed in NZ. I was with them and on the Curlew in S.Georgia in the early 2000's and she was still bulletproff. Although they never did sail Curlew away.
There are a number of smaller boats around here which have been overplanked with veneers in epoxy and they are holding up. I am not a fan of fiberglassing over as in my experience it produces a moisture trap and a biological experiment. Best wishes/ JC

^ Just so, a senior moment. It was the Carrs.
Curlew is still sailing in the care of the Falmouth Maritime Museum.

https://nmmc.co.uk/object/boats/falmouth-quay-punt-curlew/

[raven mad]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

I STAND CORREDTEED.

Yes i knkw. It’s spelt wrong. Just like my info. The lady told it was “like 100” maybe that’s what she said.
Anyway http://www.rodanski.net/ben/personal...wenn/gwenn.htm

is all the info I can get.

37’
the paper says Oregon timber which is a mistake as it’s 100% nz kauri

i will try and get more. But there ain’t much to go on.

Might have to do a video call from a NZ shipwright.

Anyway, you guys were right it’s a 60’s design. 100% top of class.

ok so that was my test over. You all passed
and you can all stay.

But the tribe has spoken.

Ill do my best ti fix her up.

[Larks]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

It says Oregon masts, New Caledonian Kauri hull, which likely wouldn’t be much (if any) different to NZ Kauri anyway - either way it is a valuable hull timber.

Do you have the masts? If they are original it’d be interesting to know what condition they are in.

[John B]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

Fiji kauri is not the same as NZ kauri even if it is the sames species in the same way that NZ Doug fir isn't anywhere imported Oregon, so I wouldn't personally assume that , Greg.
So Vanuatu build 1960s glued hull with no glue showing in the photos. That's a concern.
I think a 'shipright' will say the same as everyone else. Staggered epoxy glued scarf joints on every skin plank working out. Assuming 6 mm skins the scarfs should be 50 to 75 mm approx. If it's delaminated because it was glued originally with something that wasn't resorcinol or epoxy it might be a candidate for a skin job with AYC or similar.

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

there seem to be copper nails.

So Vanuatu build 1960s glued hull with no glue showing in the photos. That's a concern.

Now I am confused.

[John B]

Re: Tripled planked yacht repair.

I missed the copper nails reference, but there would still be fastenings into frames/ ribs etc. Are there riveted nails?
Surely , given the un caulked and diagonal outer skin, this is or was once a glued boat.