Mast lights for a small schooner

[thesaltytar]

Hello all,

Long time lurker thought I would finally sign on.

I have port and starboard lights mounted either side of the cabin top, a foot abaft the foremast. These do a wonderful job of illuminating any jerry cans I decide to lash forward and take with as well as casting fantastically garish colors upon the coils of line hanging from the fore shroud belaying pins. Not sure it does much else aside from spoiling the night vision. I'm torn between mounting them in light boxes from the shrouds or taking them to the mast head. I was wondering if anyone else here has taken their lights to the mast head on a schooner and if that would be the mainmast or the foremast?

This is a 36' Bud McIntosh, 1956, about 43' sparred length. I have a fitted main topmast but nothing on the fore. Didn't know if light boxes would look out of place on something this small but I suppose I could size it all down. Thought crossed my mind to have a tri-color at the top for offshore work and keep the lower sidelights in some light boxes as a sort of redundancy. A masthead would be visible from farther away and clean up my night vision. The lower set of sidelights might just look nice and maybe I could go full traditional there and get some oil lamps (can always pop in a headlamp if I'm feeling less traditional in a pinch!). I like having a backup in case the electric decides to go dodgy.

Also trying to figure out how to run a steaming light on account of the mast hoops. I might just have to do something right at the top of the mast, but again was wondering what experience people here have? As a final point, ditto on the anchor light. Right now I just host up a brass deal part way up the foremast and feel it's more likely to be seen there in any event, the oil lasts through the night and half the following days when I sleep in after and don't feel like springing up in the early morning. Not great for the wick though I really do try and douse it.

What are your thoughts?

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
Back in the day, they hoisted the lights from a crane that held them away from the mast, sliding up two jackstays to stop them from rotating. The crane was forked to support the jackstays at the correct span.

[thesaltytar]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
Sorry, having a bit of a hard time following you. A crane as in a short yoke-shaped spar that lives up by the truck of the foremast? Would this be in Chapelle's?

[Boatsbgood]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
Bear in mind that while masthead tricolors are proper and legal and visible, they are only correct under sail. If you have to motor (or motorsail ) at night your nav lights cannot be at the top of the mast, they must be a meter below the steaming light. Cabin sides or similar placement, though I dislike lights on a bow pulpit, too much saltwater intrusion. So, if you intend to motor at night, read the COLREGS and place the lights accordingly. I like two switches, one for sail (tricolor) and one for motor or motorsail (lower sidelights and a steaming light partway up the mast. Doesnt have to be far up, just a meter above the sidelights. For PM's reply, he is a native English speaker, not 'murican, so word usage is different.He knows wherof he speaks, career NA.

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />

Sorry, having a bit of a hard time following you. A crane as in a short yoke-shaped spar that lives up by the truck of the foremast? Would this be in Chapelle's?

A halyard crane is a robust iron fitting that supports the halyard block clear of the mast.

I am suggesting a similar fitting that supports the block that hoists the lamp, with two forks to secure the top of the jackstays that guide the lamp into the correct place.

[johngsandusky]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
Welcome aboard!
I have lightboards on my 39' ketch, and had them on my 26' yawl. I like them.
I would love to see pictures of your boat, or a link to plans.

[thesaltytar]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
Boatsbgood: Thank you for the reminder, in which case I should absolutely hold onto my sidelights, and I think perhaps the lightboard is the way to go about it for steaming purposes. I don't have any pulpits or pushpits so that's out in either regard. The English I can understand, but I have spent so many years in the US as to be called a Yank by the Brits, but enough of the accent remains that am called a Brit by the Yanks. My favorite thing to do is get one each in the room and let them argue it out.

Peerie Ma: Thank you! This is perfect. I am a little hesitant to drill holes through the mast (hollow spruce, I don't know how far the ends are solid, and just holes in general) but I do love the concept and will have to do something along these lines. Perhaps the bolster solution. Typically when I use the anchor light I unclip the topping lift off my clubbed jib and use that made off to the windlass. It puts the light right over the foredeck. I might need to run up a burton to dedicate for this and then I could use it also for the steaming light simply by making it off closer to the mast. Not sure I motor often enough at night for this to be a great inconvenience.

johngsandusky: Thank you! Yes, some small light boards might be the solution here and are easy enough to contrive. Since you ask (twist my arm):

advent sailing.jpg

[Zane Lewis]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
Do you have enough height separation to fit your port and starboard lights to the foremast and an around White for steaming and anchoring on the main mast. (at or near the masthead)
At least up high they are less likely to be obscured as the boat drops into the trough of the waves.
And they won't bugger your night vision.
Z

[Mark0]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
Hi,
Gaff rig here also. Side lights on shrouds, steaming light located just above shrouds on mast. It's a bit higher than normally found, but I haven't seen any max separation regulations. Anchor light is hoisted on fore deck.
Cheers,
Mark

[johngsandusky]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
She's a beauty!

[thesaltytar]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
Zane: This is a great solution, and aside from using light boards is the only solution that really keeps all lights visible when the uppers are set. I might still opt for an all-around white on the main topmast in addition to a stern light in the same location, so that I can sail with my running lights as well. It would do a lot to keep the cockpit nice and dark for passage making.

Mark: Where on your mast do you place the steaming light, up by the hounds? I am wondering how this isn't interfered with by the mast hoops or lacing.

John: Thank you! I like the utilitarian finish of Bud McIntosh's work. I favor the working boat aesthetic where some errant dollops of tar fit right in.

Does anyone know of a good source for small oil side lamps? The ones I see all seem quite large for a little boat of this size. If I'm going to go with LED's aloft I feel I might as well keep traditional down below - and fewer wires to worry about.

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />

Zane: This is a great solution, and aside from using light boards is the only solution that really keeps all lights visible when the uppers are set. I might still opt for an all-around white on the main topmast in addition to a stern light in the same location, so that I can sail with my running lights as well. It would do a lot to keep the cockpit nice and dark for passage making.

Mark: Where on your mast do you place the steaming light, up by the hounds? I am wondering how this isn't interfered with by the mast hoops or lacing.

John: Thank you! I like the utilitarian finish of Bud McIntosh's work. I favor the working boat aesthetic where some errant dollops of tar fit right in.

Does anyone know of a good source for small oil side lamps? The ones I see all seem quite large for a little boat of this size. If I'm going to go with LED's aloft I feel I might as well keep traditional down below - and fewer wires to worry about.

I don't think that oil lamps can generate enough light to meet COLREGS specifications.

[Spot]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
If it were mine to do (nice boat BTW) I would use vintage fixtures with brighter 2700/2900K LED bulbs with the sidelight boards at the shrouds.
My boat is wired anchor-off-nav on the same switch and steaming is going to be a separate circuit and switch.
Pic is from the Islander, a 'fishtug' from Lake Michigan. They do not have working side decks.

[thesaltytar]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
In the US the CFRs cite the ABYC codes which require electrified lamps for this purpose, so anything I do with oil would have to be a secondary. I recall the CFRs being fairly specific with regard to the hue of the colors but am having some trouble citing the source at the moment. Just can't seem to find it. I also realize the COLREGs are the go-to international standard, and if we use this, then I need to be able to shine a light one nautical mile for my vessel size (<12m). And according to what I can find, this is equivalent to 2 candle-power for a colored side light, and 1 candle-power for a white light: https://www.nature.com/articles/052232a0

Spot: Good idea on the three-way switch to save space on the panel. I like that.

For general use I still like the idea of the LEDs at the tops of my mast. I think that's a win. It just keeps the deck dark and that's very pleasing. Also it's the most visible point on the boat for a light. Probably as Zane suggested with some separation on the main topmast (why run wires on two separate masts when I can choose the mast closest to my DC panel?). If we have the fisherman staysail up I highly doubt we will be steaming also as far as sails obstructing the lights go. The oil-fired units are a quaint redundancy which, if I actually lose power at my masthead for some reason (such as it getting carried away because I'm playing Master and Commander while rounding Red No. 2 or whatever counts for the Horn in my neck of the woods), I am more likely to open it up and drop in a headlamp before immediately putting for repairs and getting my carpenters (this is how I refer to myself during boat repairs - they're a hard working bunch but have no respect for the captain) to work at Home Depot.

[Thad Van Gilder]

Re: Mast lights for a small schoonebr />
I ran both oil lamps and aquesignal electrics on the light boards on my shrouds on my 1923 Falmouth Quay Punt. I sold the boat about 15 years ago but was able to buy the oil lights back perhaps 2 years ago. I bought them new from Classic Marine in about 2003. They are Den Haan lights) I custom ordered them in copper as they are made standard in brass.

I am looking to sell the oil lights and have them listed on facebook on the marlingspike sailor buying and selling group. you can find pictures there, or message me. spare parts are still available from Classic Marine.