A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

[Max F]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Hi Ian
How did I miss this?
I´ll be watching with pleasure!
Cheers
Max

[IanMilne]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

It's a pleasure to have you on board, Max!

Ian

[IanMilne]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Quote #27 "Hi Mike, Thanks for considering my problem. It wouldn't be a problem if i just pressed a few buttons and ordered kauri or cedar, red or yellow, from the dealers in Christchurch,..." It's Malaysian kauri they advertise, not NZ kauri. Nobody advertises NZ kauri any more, except swamp kauri (q.v.), which is a different situation entirely.

I sawed and dressed an old piece of Southern Silver Beech (N. menziesii) into three strips 40 x 9mm and steamed them in a bunch for an hour, with the following results:

One piece twisted to 90 degrees, representing the forefoot, and one bent around the second mould, representing a frame. (There is a bit of a bump in it.)
P1040153.jpg

And the other one bent around the aftermost mould. This is the tightest bend.
P1040151.jpg

So far, so good. I hope to get a fresh piece of beech, and a piece of macrocarpa, tomorrow, and then do the same with them.

I will drill clamping holes around the moulds when I get my planking lines.

I have been working on the keel plank, and hope to get a plank of macrocarpa tomorrow for the keelson, which is the same shape as the keel but 3/4" (19mm) wider all around. These two pieces form the rabbet for the garboard, with rolling bevels taken from the lofting.

I will not be using that oak for the frames after all, as I have heard a horror story about NZ-grown oak frames cracking across in the bilges. John Leather, in his book "Clinker Boatbuilding", says English-grown oak frames in small dimensions are prone to doing that too. Maybe I'll use kwila.

Big decisions expected this week!

Ian

[Max F]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Looking good Ian
Isn´t it nice to travel new ways of building?
That wooden species you mention I´ve never heard of in my place. Well I now Kauri at least.
Have you tried to steam bend with a compression strap? Easily made out of a strip of sheet metal and some stopper blocks at the end.
That and putting the ribs under water for 2-3 weeks can make bending a complete different story.
I did a bending session a while ago with some folks to show the difference. All were pretty impressed.
Cheers
Max

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

About traditional planking stock during the build and for the life of the boat, like this one - I hold two seemingly contradictory elements in high regard - high moisture content and dimensional stability. I'm big on dimensional stability (therefore something like flat sawn oak has no place on one of my boats). In my corner of the world fresh cut vertical grain old growth western red cedar, surfaced to finish thickness, has both the moisture content I want and the dimensional stability to cause no problems during and after the build. Of course some folks regard harvesting this old growth a crime, and I can't entirely dismiss that sentiment. No clue about species for planking in your part of the world Ian. Typically I use 'bending oak' (green, clear, straight grain white oak) for steam bent ribs - not something found at the neighborhood lumberyard - but I have also use locust. I don't recall the moisture content of the locust. No idea how or why you would turn clench nails 'with pliers'. Building upside down the plank laps are clenched in the frame bays solo and blind. If you rib the boat out right side up after planking, clenching the ribs is more of a two person operation.

[IanMilne]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Hi Max, Thanks for reminding me about compression straps. I used them for laminating the tiller of my Eun na Mara Islesburgh in 2008. See https://www.geoss.com.au/eun_mara/ian_dunedin13.htm. (Courtesy Richard Almond of Canberra). Yes, soaking the ribs in advance of steaming is another good practice.

Hi Eric, Thanks for your comments. There are timber importers in Christchurch (the biggest city in the South Island, 400 km north of here) who stock Western Red Cedar and American White Oak, but I would rather follow the tradition (?) of using locally available materials, if possible. That means I have been spending far too much time in finding out what is available here that is suitable for the planking and frames. Visible progress is slow. I will not be using pliers to clench my nails, but that method is shown in a couple of my books. It does seem a bit clumsy to me.

I marked the rolling bevel in the sides of the keel today from my lofting, and cut them out, which gives me the rabbet and middle lines, and will mark out the keelson from it, (which will give me the bearding line), on that piece of macrocarpa I mentioned. I have been puzzling over how to bend the macrocarpa keelson and the Douglas fir keel down at the stern, so I steamed a few bits experimentally. I now intend to cut the keel piece horizontally to make two laminations in the D. fir piece back to station 10, and then steam the keel and keelson together (but unfastened) using the steam-and-bend-in-a-plastic-bag technique, as demonstrated by Louis Sauzede.

I have borrowed back the steamer that I was using on Kotik's rub-rails and various other parts, and steamed strips of elm, southern silver beech, D. fir and macrocarpa in it today.
P1040154.jpg

The elm pieces, as cut for frames, bent well. The elm is from a local tree salvager. The beech bends well too.
P1040159.jpg

I knew the macrocarpa would break. It had a knot in it. The piece of D. fir was still quite stiff, and split at the edge because I didn't round off the outside corners. I was bending it on the flat grain. The board I am using for the keel is very flat sawn. I notice you bend your frames on the edge grain, Eric. Bending the keel down might be a good case for a compression strip, Max. I would have to pad the ends to prevent it tearing the plastic bag. Think, think....
P1040160.jpg

As I mentioned, I have to check my "Subscribed Threads" folder every few days to see if there are any messages.

'Til next time.

Ian

[Andrew Donald]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Looks like this build is harder than you’d imagined Ian, what with finding good timber to use. How many times have you looked longingly at the epoxy bottles?

Once you turn it upright are there more frames to steam in between stations?

AA

[IanMilne]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Thanks, Andrew, and Welcome Home!

Yes, finding the timber has been the most difficult part so far, but I have learned a lot about the timbers that were used in the old days before our kauri got over-used, exported, wasted... , and the ones that are available now, locally and from the importers in Christchurch. Kauri is strictly protected now. I have a very interesting book called "Thoughts on Clinker Lapstrake Dinghy Construction" by Peter Peal, who was a boatbuilding apprentice in Auckland in the late 1930s. He wrote it when he was 95 and died the year after it was published in 2016. All the boats were built out of kauri then, with mangeao for the steamed frames. They are both North Island species.

Anyway, I have made the keel, and, having got my piece of macrocarpa last week, have almost finished the keelson, and will steam the aft ends of the keel and keelson tomorrow and clamp them to the skeg to keep the right shape while they cool. I will probably use polyurethane glue to glue those parts together and epoxy to glue the stem and transom onto them. I still have to get bolts, screws and ring-nails. Yes, I sometimes think that plywood/epoxy is the most sensible way to go these days, but "been there, done that". It is good to be learning the old ways, but I can't just wander into "the woods" and cut whatever I want. I still think I can use macrocarpa for the planking, but options for the frames are elm, Southland silver beech, or kwila. Yes, they go in after the planked up boat is turned over. There are sixteen bent frames in all. The plan shows six or seven going right across, and the rest in two halves, but I might make them all in two halves.

Ian

[Mike1902]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Hi Ian,

"Finding the timber".
A wooden boat builders challenge, especially using the more traditional methods, as it were.
Good on you Ian for taking it on, all part of the wonderful build experience.
If you can get your hands on some of that local Silver Beech, that would be the go.

Cheers,
Mike.

[IanMilne]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Thanks for that encouragement, Mike. I can get a piece of silver beech that will be enough for the frames, freshly cut from a fallen tree in Southland.
Cheers,
Ian

[Andrew Donald]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Ian, you’ve prob thought of this but I was wondering if it’s possible to get in touch with a sawmill (do they still exist?) to go through their scrap pile for green offcuts? May take a fair bit of research though and driving.
We get small one man sawyers advertising on Facebook Marketplace here, maybe you’ve got them too. They often go after storm trees etc
Mens Shed organisation or woodworking clubs, members sometimes have a surprising stash of timber

[Max F]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Good luck Ian in finding the wanted wood.
It sounds to me like this is also part of the fun.
Making new connections and widening the knowledge.
Cheers
Max

[IanMilne]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Thanks, Andrew and Max, for those kind thoughts. Yes, the elm and silver beech I have got so far are from fallen trees, salvaged by new contacts. I made the stem and other bits from the elm, and there is enough beech for the frames, plus spares. I have decided to get the macrocarpa from the local sawmill where I have had it from before (for the deck framing of Kotik, etc.). I think it will steam well enough for the twist at the forefoot. If it doesn't I could scarf some silver beech onto those planks. It has taken a while but has definitely been part of the fun, and much more educational than ordering a stack of plywood.

Here is a photo of the oak from next door, on the trolleys, but I don't think it is suitable, after all. The other piece on the floor is the beech, which one of my new contacts brought back from Southland for me last week. He will come here and cut it down the middle so that I can handle it on my "handyman" machines. He lives in the next suburb to our place. He will cut the oak down the middle too. You can see he has good skills with a chainsaw. He is a retired bushman (forester.) He is being very helpful.
P1040165.jpg

Here is a photo of the piece of macrocarpa I got last week, making shavings. This is the keelson/apron/hog, whatever you like to call it. I am planing the garboard rabbet, from the middle line up to the bearding line. I will use my drawknife for the other side, after I have sharpened it up. (I sharpened all my planes and chisels the other day.) You can see the elm skeg on the back of the bench.
P1040167.jpg

And here is the view from the front windows of my workshop yesterday morning. They have been replacing all the infrastructure in the road since April, and are starting to build a roundabout in this rather complicated intersection, which will take until early October.
P1040166.jpg

To work, to work!

Cheers,
Ian

[IanMilne]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

Quote from my message #36: "I notice you bend your frames on the edge grain, Eric." This was a response to Eric's message #35. My mistake. He was talking about the planking, not the frames. Sorry, Eric.
Ian

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

About ribbing the boat after turning upright - I bend all the ribs in full length gunwale to gunwale. The centerboard slot was already cut though the apron and keel upon fabrication. Oh, before ribbing you might want to make a pattern for the rocker of the apron (thus the base of the trunk). My centerboard trunks have endposts that are partially notched through the apron. I can start the posts into their notches, and cut away the offending bit of rib with a jap saw run lightly alongside the trunk. I guess you could just as well install the trunk first and run the half ribs into it. I will have one or two half ribs at the ends of the boat as well - but where I can do full length, I do full length. When milling rib stock for these guys I am not too much concerned with grain orientation, other then avoiding run out.