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A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

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  • #16
    Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

    I converted my Hvalsoe 13 plans to glued lap after receiving Eric's blessing to do so.
    I'll be interested in seeing it go together in the traditional way.
    It's been a long time since this forum saw copper rivets/screws being used to hold a boat together.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

      Lawsons cypress is not a cupressus species (lusitanica is), its botanical name is chamaecyparis lawsoniana but is very similar in appearance and characteristics to the other two, but perhaps it can be steamed. I have not heard any restriction on steaming Alaskan Yellow Cedar which is also a chamaecyparis species (nootka in this case), so perhaps lawsons is also steamable.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

        Hi Rich, Your HV13 thread is the one that got me interested in Eric's boats. I see you have built other boats the traditional way, too. You could say that epoxy/plywood is in the tradition of using available materials, which is very sensible, but it's always good to try something different. I located a piece of elm today, to make the stem, stem and transom knees and the skeg out of. It would be easier, but not as interesting, to just buy some plywood and a bottle of epoxy.

        Thanks for your interest, Graeme. I daresay that by the time I am ready to start planking I will have found something suitable. If all else fails, I can get imported Western Red Cedar from Christchurch easily enough. That's what Eric uses, and he steams it where necessary.

        Ian
        Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
        Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

        “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
        Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

          My attitude is that the moisture content of the planking stock, whatever species, in particular regarding steaming, is the difference between a pleasurable experience and a battle. I also stay away from flat grain planking stock. For most folks these are significant challenges.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

            I seem to have been silent again for a while. I am no longer getting emails to tell me when there is a posting on one of my subscribed threads. Don't know why. I have just been checking some of them.

            Thanks for your message, Eric. Do you mean that the planking stock should be quarter sawn, with a high moisture content for steaming?

            I am still puzzling over what sort of timber to use for the planking. NZ Kauri or Western Red Cedar are the traditional timbers of choice, depending on where you live, but I would like to use something more locally available if possible. I have spent a lot of time making enquiries and reading whatever I can find about timbers, indigenous and exotic, learning a lot and also how much I don't know. Southern silver beech (Nothofagus menziesii) or poplar (variety unspecified) have been suggested. A piece of poplar steamed very well, and beech is listed as doing the same. Experiments continue... Comments, anybody?

            I have made a little bit of real progress lately. I traced a paper pattern for the skeg from the lofting and transferred the lines onto my piece of elm with carbon paper, and drew around my cardboard stem and knees patterns onto it in the most economical arrangement, and cut them out. The elm was 200 x 50mm (2 x 8"; 8 x 2") so I ended up with a 20 litre bucket of planer chips, after I had taken it down to the specified 38mm (1 1/2").
            P1040145.jpg

            The nice piece of imported Oregon (D. fir) at the back of the photo was left over from my Kotik masts and spars. I was going to use it for the keelson, but it is a little bit too narrow, so I will use it for the keel and get a piece of 150 x 25mm (6 x 2") macrocarpa for the keelson, so that I can keep to your intentions, Eric, of having her sit level on the beach. The bilge runners will help there too.

            The next jobs will be to cut the rabbets in the stem and make the transom.
            Last edited by IanMilne; 07-17-2022, 04:49 AM. Reason: sp.
            Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
            Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

            “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
            Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

              And here is what has taken up most of the last couple of days.

              Once upon a time there was an English oak tree (Quercus robur) on my next-door neighbour's place. About three years ago he told me that he was going to get rid of it because the leaves were too messy, it was too shady, etc., so I said, kind of impulsively, "Oh, can I have some of it?" (for dinghy frames), so the upshot was that a friend of his just took the head off, I collected some of the curved bits for knees (maybe) and we left the trunk standing, to be cut when the sap was down and near the time when I was ready to steam it green, which was very obliging of my neighbour.

              So, in due course I located a suitable tree company and they told me on Thursday that they could cut it down on Friday afternoon, so in the morning I took out part of the 6 foot (1.8m) fence, the work was done in the afternoon, and I put the fence back together again. (The fence had replaced my neighbour's macrocarpa hedge, two years ago. It is "Colour-steel", with the panels screwed to the rails (his choice), so it was fairly easy.)

              The trunk, as it was.
              P1040024.jpg

              The scene on Friday.
              P1040146.jpg

              I didn't know there would be so much sapwood in it, which I can't use. I got the guys to cut most of it off, for my neighbour's next year's firewood.
              P1040147.jpg

              And here it is on my trailer, with the sapwood pile in the background.
              P1040148.jpg

              I will take it to a sawmill tomorrow to see if it can be milled into planks I can turn into decent frames, or if it is only good for firewood.

              (It would be much easier to make the frames out of kwila decking planks!)

              Cheers,
              Ian
              Last edited by IanMilne; 07-17-2022, 04:02 AM. Reason: sp.
              Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
              Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

              “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
              Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

                The other thing that happened this week was the arrival of 4 lb of copper clenching nails from an ancient machine at the Strawbery Banke Museum in Portsmouth, New
                Hampshire. https://www.piperboatworks.com/clench-nails.html. Our class was using these at the WoodenBoat School in 2015.

                Ian
                Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

                  Amazing machine , I can only begin to imagine the mind of the person that thinks up such a contraption, genius.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

                    Hi Andrew. I was thinking the same thing when I watched it again just now.
                    Are you home yet?
                    Cheers,
                    Ian
                    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

                      Home on Wednesday. Can’t wait for some cold weather, most days are over 30 C here quite often 35+. Prob a week and I’ll be whinging about the cold, also glue won’t go off.

                      We didn’t get far with selling the house over here, so Connie has to go back in a month or two to hopefully finalise. We got about half way with the necessary paperwork. Because her sister flat out refuses to fly to Sicily it makes things much more difficult amongst other things, long story.

                      Im on the downhill side of the mountain with my boat so it’ll be good to start knocking off a few more jobs from the never ending list.

                      how do you use those nails? With roves inside or curled over and back into timber. There’s a mob in Qland that sells copper nails and roves, let me know if you want their name.
                      Last edited by Andrew Donald; 07-17-2022, 06:26 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

                        Hi Ian,

                        Watching that large mass of moving parts making such a small product is quite fascinating.

                        Seems like you have a few decisions to make regarding the planking on your new build.
                        My experience with a variety of timbers in the steaming department is somewhat limited, more of a laminating guy myself.
                        The Macrocarpa I have used over the years has always been a bit knotty, it does have a reputation for being a good boat building timber, if you can get the needed amount of clear boards.
                        Beech is nice to work with, though it too can be a bit inconsistent in bulk with it's grain structure. Read somewhere that it does steam well.
                        If you could get your hands on enough Kauri that would be my choice but getting it at the right price is the thing.
                        The option of the Western Red Cedar is one to seriously consider. The fact that someone else will be picking out the boards may warrant some strict instruction on grain orientation.
                        I like cedar, easy to work with, long straight grains and it smells nice too.
                        Well, this little blurb has probably not helped with your decision making one bit but it's good to be social.

                        Cheers,
                        Mike.
                        Focus on the effort not the outcome.

                        Whatever floats your boat.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

                          Hi Andrew. Yes, it will be good to get home again. We are getting TV News reports about the heatwaves and wild fires in Europe. It's a pity that Connie will have to go back. Have a good trip home.
                          The clenching nails are hammered through drilled holes onto a clenching iron which is skilfully (I hope) used to curl the point back into the wood. You have to practise a bit first. I will be using rivets too but I can get them in NZ easily enough. Thanks for the suggestion.

                          Hi Mike, Thanks for considering my problem. It wouldn't be a problem if i just pressed a few buttons and ordered kauri or cedar, red or yellow, from the dealers in Christchurch, except maybe the price, as you say. A recent friend who knows his timbers is going to Southland tomorrow and will bring me back a piece of fresh silver beech from there next week, to experiment with. It will be from the one remaining sawmill at Tuatapere, operating in a certified sustainable fashion. Do you use quarter-sawn boards for the planking? (I suppose I should know that by now.) I can still go ahead with setting up the centreline.
                          Cheers,
                          Ian
                          Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                          Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                          “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                          Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

                            That video is indeed fascinating!

                            Ken
                            When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

                              Do you have to pre drill for those nails?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: A Hvalsoe Dinghy in New Zealand

                                Yes, you drill the holes first, a bit smaller than the nail. There are lots of videos about it, some better than others. The point has to be curled back into the wood, not just hammered flat. Another way to do it is with pliers.
                                Ian
                                Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                                Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                                “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                                Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                                Comment

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