Campion Apple 16 Build

[John Meachen]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

It is a slightly unusual challenge for a small boat.I have seen how bigger water ballasted boats do it and it involves a good sized aft facing vent on deck.Obviously,this also has to function in reverse as the tank is emptied.I think I would be keeping a close eye on the weather as the sailing day draws to a close because a fading wind might all too easily make it hard to jettison the water and hauling the laden boat clear of the water would be quite a physical feat.

[jamieduff1981]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

probably _small_ limber holes along the top edge of each floor to tank top joint would be enough

That's all I've done. It may need you to rock the boat to bleed bubbles towards the holes as they're approaching full. Draining will present no problem in that respect.

[dbp1]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

Alright, started fixing. I used a stud detector to pretty accurately find the floors from above (the only inaccuracy coming from the squeeze out from the epoxy in the joint). I then drilled a 1.5" hole with a forstner bit, just down through the plywood, and then drilled a 1" hole (again, forstner) down into the floor, going down maybe three quarters of an inch below the ply. I'll seal everything newly exposed, cut 1.5" ply discs, seal them, and then glue them in -- the edges of floor (by cutting oversize first) should make it easy to fit them in without the discs being able to fall through, as if they did... I'd have a bit of a problem. Initially I thought about suspending them with tape while the epoxy cured, but thought this would be much more reliable.



I did three or four across between each tank, which hopefully should allow enough space for the air to move out as the water comes in from below.

One annoying thing -- while I did run the vacuum hose into the first chamber over (from the access point), I didn't get it to the second one, so there are certainly wood shavings in there now. It shouldn't really matter -- if they migrate get over to where the bailers are, I can clear them out.

[dalekidd]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

Quite the project, Daniel! Seems like one limber hole between each chamber would have been enough. ?? I think you'll like the water ballast when you're done. I had a Macgregor 26 (oops! sorry - she was fiberglass) with water ballast. Of course, you filled the tank once launched. Before retrieving I would blow the water out of the tank (150 gallons = 1200 lbs ballast) with a battery operated inflater attached to the vent hole.

[dbp1]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

Quite the project, Daniel! Seems like one limber hole between each chamber would have been enough. ?? I think you'll like the water ballast when you're done. I had a Macgregor 26 (oops! sorry - she was fiberglass) with water ballast. Of course, you filled the tank once launched. Before retrieving I would blow the water out of the tank (150 gallons = 1200 lbs ballast) with a battery operated inflater attached to the vent hole.

Probably — but if the boat isn’t totally level, then either the inboard or outboard one may be underwater, and in case something gets stuck in one, I’d rather just err on having a few extra. They don’t compromise the strength of anything meaningful, and the labor involved is pretty similar (once I get to cutting and finishing discs, making a few extra…)

[dbp1]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

Well, it's been a little while, and I haven't quite finished with the tank, but I'm close.

I first cut out a bunch of circles. 24 I needed, though I thought I needed 27 when cutting, so ended up with a few extras! Then coated one side in epoxy:



Next, thickened epoxy around the edges of the circles and pushing them into the holes that I cut to make air holes between the tanks (I also coated the exposed wood inside with epoxy).



Once that cured, I sanded it all down, and layed down some fiberglass -- just to stiffen the wood a little (the underside would be better, I think, but this should do _something_, and anyway, the wood isn't flexing between floors). I put that down with peel ply, which unfortunately I didn't have quite enough of, but some fairing was needed anyway.





At this point, I've sanded down the fairing, and it looks pretty good. I'm waiting for some more paint (and a good time when I'll be able to put a series of coats within the recoat windows), after which it should be done! I'm hoping to at least test the tanks out before the end of the season here. Unfortunately, it'll probably be with the motor only, as the spars/sails are packed relatively inaccessibly in the garage along with a bunch of stuff from the basement (causing the boat to be temporarily evicted to the driveway), as we're doing work in the basement. Obviously, this boat wouldn't need water ballast when motoring, but should at least be able to test loading/unloading the ballast, that the tanks are sealed, etc.

[dbp1]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

Well, I've finished the tank, but it doesn't look like I'll be able to try it out until the spring Do to work we're doing in the basement, the boat has been evicted out of its spot in the garage (basement contents taking its spot) and is currently living on the (quite steep) driveway. I tried to get it on the hitch today, and while its certainly _possible_ (if I weren't alone, probably straightforward), it's enough of a pain that it doesn't seem worth it just to test out the tanks (the sails & spars are buried in the back of the garage).

So all I have is a current photo of the interior of the boat.



I have the plywood on hand, and am still planning on closing up below the side seats. Part of the delay is I'm not quite sure about hatches -- probably just a decent sized one right in the middle (which limits the length of things that could go in, but make it easier to reach the ends).

Not sure if I'm going to do anything about the single exposed floor in the rear. Probably leave it as-is for now (I haven't tried, but it _may_ be at the right place for a rowing footrest, which would be neat), and if it gets annoying, maybe I'll cut it down a bit.

[dalekidd]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

Tanks are "pert" near invisible and spring will be here before you know it.

[UCanoe_2]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

Lookin' great, Daniel!

[dbp1]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

Well, boat finally moved back into the garage yesterday, and I had some time to take it to a nearby lake today to try out the tanks. Everything worked pretty well: the tanks don't leak (aside from a tiny bit from the anderson bailers, but the inside of the tanks are essentially _outside_ the boat, so not a big deal), and both the filling bailers (reversed, with the flaps ripped off) and the emptying ones worked well.



(that's one side, the other is identical).

I ran through the process several times (using the electric outboard I had, no sail today), including one full cycle running a video the whole time which allowed relatively accurate timing. At ~4.5-5 knots, the tanks fully empty in ~4 minutes (down to a few cups of water that needs to be sponged out), and filled to ~90% in about 2 minutes (the last bit seems like it should be done with a bucket, as while the reversed bailer will keep pulling water in, it starts splashing out of the hole: perhaps with a second person to monitor and keep the hatches mostly on it could be done entirely with the bailers).

The difference in stability, even without the sail up, is pretty noticeable. The Apple is quite a stable boat no matter what (I'm planning on doing some capsize testing this summer to understand a bit more the limits), but with the extra ~350lbs down low, it is a lot more stable (and actually, more pleasant as a solo low-speed displacement electric motor boat, as it moves the center of balance a bit further forward when I'm sitting near the rear).

[dbp1]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

A few updates ---

First, a few weeks ago (maybe more?), James (of http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-in-California) sent me an extra mast traveller ring he had made for his soon to be launched (beautiful) Seil, which has a mast of pretty similar diameter to mine.

Following John Hartmann, I wrapped it in some sort of ringbolt hitch (mine doesn't look quite as nice, as I probably should have used larger diameter line)



I re-rigged the boat and got it out sailing today, and the traveller is nice -- I didn't try reefing, though I should have (there was almost no wind, so I didn't think about it), as that's where I'm expecting the biggest improvement. I could have hauled it a little higher (and should!)



Speaking of, I finally set up a more reasonable reefing system than just having little bits of spectra that could be tied manually. This follows some suggestions in a thread that I've now lost track of, and at least on grass, seems like it will be quick and pretty easy. Stainless carabiners on the sail, down through cheek blocks across to cleats. The only things I want to fix is having the loose line running the length of the boom when not reefed isn't ideal. Maybe some eyes could keep it more orderly.



Finally, I did a bunch of work on the trailer (my least favorite thing to do). I removed the carefully constructed and laboriously installed central plank, which never really worked that well (the Apple has too much rocker...). I also fixed a longstanding mistake on the _boat_, which was bridging the gap between the centercase supports and the false outer keel at the front (as that bump made using central rollers a pain). I added some V-style supports (annoyingly, these are not vertically adjustable, so I had to double one of the blocks to make it actually tall enough), and put rollers back in down the center. The idea is that the rollers guide the keel, but the carpeted parts are what end up actually taking much of the weight once it gets all the way forward. The plumb bow makes this somewhat tricky, but it seems to have worked, and loading the boat back on the trailer was a lot easier (it was guided to the center, unlike the previous solution).

[jamieduff1981]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

That all looks good Daniel. I like the traveller. I've been starting to hack about my own trailer which is rather different but ai do want boards with carpet the same as yours. What are your ones made from and what thickness roughly?

[dbp1]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

I don't love the trailer, but it seems to be working okay, and it is convenient (given I don't have welding equipment, or much experience) that all the adjustments are with bolts.

All the boards are just pressure treated wood, standard construction dimensions, ~1.5" thick. I think there are some variants that aren't supposed to be in contact with aluminum (the more "severe" grade, I think), but others are fine. The forward ones I doubled, to 3" (plus the thickness of carpet), because the cross-piece does not go up and down, and the boat gets so skinny towards the front that to keep it up to the level of the rollers I needed more thickness

[jamieduff1981]

Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

Gotcha - thanks! I was thinking of buying steel plate but duh, wood will be absolutely fine and I can just weld on some brackets to bolt the wood to the steel frame.

[dbp1]

Capsize testing!

I've been meaning to do this for a long time, and finally did today (partially shamed by James testing his Seil on almost the first trip out...)

I did two tests -- first with the water ballast tanks empty, second with them full. I did this with masts up, but no sails, rudder, anchor, etc. I recorded the whole thing, so you can see -- I should have had the camera on the upper corner of the transom, but oh well -- you can _mostly_ see what happens.

In the empty test, the boat went over once I put my full weight on the gunwale up forward. It's relatively stable, but it is a round bottom boat (and the mast has some weight -- seems heavier than necessary, but oh well -- used douglas fir instead of sitka spruce, and I can feel it!), so over it goes. It sits pretty high on its side -- just about even with the side seats, which means if I actually tanked them in (and continued the seats forward), it might actually come up with not much water. As is, it came up with a _lot_. Well above the centerboard slot, but I definitely need a bigger bailing bucket (the one I have is a half gallon scoop. I think a 2gallon bucket would probably be better).

Next, I filled the ballast tanks and did it again. This time, I could stand fully on the gunwale and the boat wouldn't go over. Pulling on the mast got it to scoop water, but letting go caused it to pop back up. Filled with a ton of water, it was easier to pull it over, and I did, all the way to beyond 90 degrees -- the camera goes under water, but I pulled the top of the main mast to the water, and then let it go, and the boat pops back up. So with the ballast tanks full, it is self righting. As expected though, it comes up with a _lot_ of water. It's just barely below the centerboard slot (which slopes down at the front -- if I had gone with the design that had a higher front of case, it wouldn't be close), but with my weight on the rear tank, the front picks up and there is enough of a gap that there is no risk of water coming in. I did bring a towel to jam in the slot, but it wasn't necessary.

A couple other things: I climbed over the side of the transom that usually has the boomkin & tiller, as the other side had a camera and the motor mount. If there was both a motor installed and the boomkin/tiller, climbing over the transom wouldn't work. Climbing over the side at the front seems hard, as that is where the freeboard is highest, and further back I had the oars lashed to the gunwales. Obviously I could unlash an oar and climb over the side (especially with ballast, the boat is quite stable), but that's something to think about.

The other thing is that this made me think that it might be really worth putting in full side tanks. I've been planning on closing in the rear tanks (where I have rollers right now, the front of which sort of popped out), and have the plywood partly patterned out, but continuing the seats forward should mean that the boat comes up with very little water -- just what fits between the tops of the seats and the gunwales, which would make bailing a lot easier. The video shows where the boat sits, so as long as the seats went that far inboard, water shouldn't flood into the footwell...