Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

[Tokamecotom]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Don I'm finally here, let me know how I may be of assistance.

[Ben Fuller]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Have you checked in with the Wooden Boatworks http://woodenboatworks.com/index.php/boats/custom run by Don Costanzo. He was one o the principals in the 1997 build of MADIGAN and has built a number of Gil Smith replicas. I think plans for MADIGAN were drawn by Dave Dillon and are now in the ships plans collection of Mystic Seaport.

We built a replica of one of the other Gil Smith cats based on one we had in the collection when I was at Mystic, I'll be down there this coming weekend and will see if I can get a photo of the keel structure.

The interesting part of the Gil Smith boat is that the centerboard drops through the massive keel/ skeg structure which is the boat's real backbone. I would expect to see all of that as a long beam with a slot in it.

The support or lack of support of centerboards has come up on the UNA thread. We see a number of unsupported trunks on these old boats. I've been thinking about this and wonder whether some of it has to do with the fact that these old boards were mostly designed so that the aft corner of the board stayed in the trunk. And lots of these boats had heathy ledges for the trunk which may have been taking the load. Certainly we see this in some of the pie shaped trunks and boards.

[Don Scott]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Ah! at last you're here Tom. You placed a good number of photographs of the original 'Lorelei' on the thread that I ran in the Design/Plans section last year. They were very useful in making the comparison between the real thing and the model hull of this catboat that I made. I was hoping that you might give me permission to use them (I have them on my computer file) from time to time for the same purpose as I develop the larger version on this thread. I never approached the officials/trustees of LIMM when I built the model because I was lead to believe that there were no existing plans for that specific boat in existence. I didn't and don't really feel justified in asking for any approval to build, simply because my current build is not a very serious or professional attempt at building the replica. However, you came on the scene with photographs and measurements of the full size boat that made it just possible for me to have a go.

So, even though I am not officially in contact with the museum authority, I do hope that this thread will lend itself to some positive publicity in terms of awareness/visitor numbers, etc. for the Long Island Maritime Museum, West Sayville, New York and I do not mean that in any smug sort of way.

Coming back to the point, Tom, if you give me permission for use (with acknowledgement of course) those photographs where they lend themselves to comparison then I will be very pleased. Otherwise, you could just feed them into your posts at any point you feel is appropriate. Either way would be fine.

[Don Scott]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Sorry I missed you there, Ben, we must have been beavering away at the keyboard at the same time and you have come up with some interesting suggestions which I will take on board. I have to reiterate my words in the above post about the quality of my build and just quote an appropriate saying, the source of which I have long forgotten... "Badly built boats are not entirely useless, even the worst of them can serve as horrible examples."

You will have to take my boat build with a pinch of salt...or maybe a tot of whiskey!

[Don Scott]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

This photo brings us up to the present where I have started laying cedar strip, so there might be some delay between now and the next post.
As a matter of interest, my shed is just short of 18' long internally and I have, at best, a couple of feet each side at the widest part of the beam... it's amazing what you can get used to!
That's the 4' model hull on the left which keeps my enthusiasm going, along with cups of tea that keep appearing from 'stage right' at the correct intervals.

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[Rich Jones]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

The vast amount of natural light in your shop will be invaluable when it comes time for fairing the hull. There's nothing like natural daylight to point out all our flaws.

[Tokamecotom]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Don - feel free to use any of the photo's I have posted to the forum and let me know if you have any special requests.

[Don Scott]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Tom, many thanks for allowing use of your photographs and to start with I think the 'sharp end' view, below, is a good start just to show the simple, clean and streamlined shape of the hull.
One question here : I can figure out all the fittings on the foredeck except for the extra pulley block. The two side by side will be for the sail and the gaff halliards but what is the third one for...just forward of those two?

Lorelei 19.jpgLorelei 19 - Copy.jpg

[Ben Fuller]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Extra block for topping lift or for a gaff downhaul which I rigged when I had a catboat and handled the halyards from the cockpit.

[Don Scott]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Thanks for that info, Ben, and showing me yet another way to spell halyards. Yours is the correct way of course but, I would just like to cite Mark Twain who once said that it was an unimaginative man who could not find at least two ways of spelling a word. I rest my case.

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Thanks for that info, Ben, and showing me yet another way to spell halyards. Yours is the correct way of course but, I would just like to cite Mark Twain who once said that it was an unimaginative man who could not find at least two ways of spelling a word. I rest my case.

I hear what you say, but what is this "iard" in your you hall?

[Daniel Noyes]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Tom, many thanks for allowing use of your photographs and to start with I think the 'sharp end' view, below, is a good start just to show the simple, clean and streamlined shape of the hull.
One question here : I can figure out all the fittings on the foredeck except for the extra pulley block. The two side by side will be for the sail and the gaff halliards but what is the third one for...just forward of those two?

Thanks for that info, Ben, and showing me yet another way to spell halyards. Yours is the correct way of course but, I would just like to cite Mark Twain who once said that it was an unimaginative man who could not find at least two ways of spelling a word. I rest my case.

just another correction, may be nit picking, but the two blocks are both "gaff halliards" one for the throat and one for the peak, there is no "sail halliard" as such as the sail is laced to the gaff and the gaff raises the sail.


what I want to know is what is the gigantic eye and ring for near the bow...? mooring line? can you imagine scrambling out along that deck to get a mooring in a little choppy sea?!

[Breakaway]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

what I want to know is what is the gigantic eye and ring for near the bow...?

Forestay?

Kevin

[Tokamecotom]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

That's a sweet model, Don! This is the first time I've seen the lines and offsets for a Gil Smith boat, that's classified information over at the Museum. There must be a leak, someone in the Penny Baotshop, maybe.

I think this might be Lorelei, but I'm not sure. I'll have a look around and see what else I've got.


Watching with interest!


Jim

Hi Jim, Don,

I want to provide some background information on Smith and the collection. I got this second hand and believe It to be true. Al Terry, who pasted a few years ago, was big Smith fan. He had several of his boats and helped the museum with their collection as a trustee. Somehow he was able to get the Smithsonian Museum - Library of Congress to provide assistance to document several examples of Gil Smith boats. Smith always worked from half models and by eye so they took measurements and developed a table of offsets and line drawing for Lorelei, Pauline (a plumb stem cat) and Kid (a P class sloop).

Back in 2003 The Smithsonian also provided he Museum with a grant to build a replica of a plum stem Gil Smith Catboat. The hull was started in the winter of 2003 2004 and was it brought down to display in D.C. During a summer festival on Museum grounds. The lofting for this boat as well as the patterns and jigs are in the Penney boat shop. I have have been able to sail this boat a number of times and she is fast and nimble.

please excuse any typos as I am doing this on my phone.

Tom

[Don Scott]

Re: Gil Smith catboat "Lorelei"

Tom, Could you also add something about the Lorelei history? I can't locate the text I saved last year but seem to remember that she did not get her bottom wet very often.

You will note that I have not said anything about the rear end on this boat so far. I gave up trying to include the dummy transom as I can't get round the back. All I have done is set
two blocks at the right angle for when I do make an attempt at fitting it. This photo gives some idea of things but you will have to bear with me until I get my head around it.

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