Quadrant

[ShorelineJohn]

Re: Quadrant

Jim
Like always, "WoW" what beautiful work both in wood and bronze, and in pattern making and the final part. You got it all covered!
I do have some questions if you don't mind, my first step before I cast anything else, is I need to make a combination lifting tongs/pouring shank, the step between the lifting tongs and the pouring shank it just plain a two man job if it takes two tools. Seems like I found better information on this style of lifting tongs in the past but now I can only seem to find a couple of you tube videos both of which are really flaky. The one built out of rebar and the other looks worse than that. I think I will be able to figure it out but have you posted any pictures of yours?
My real question is about petrobond, am I correct in guessing that a cubic foot would be about 75-80 lbs? And is there a better source for it in Seattle than Amazon or PMC supplies? And finally what grit are you using?
I have got about maybe 4 to 5 cubic feet of green sand which has been enough for the things I cast but I would like to "up my game" a little bit and be able get a little more detail (read as parts that don't lose their shoulders). I can only use a #10 or #12 crucible so I am thinking that 2 cubic feet should be enough.
And Thanks for the inspiration.
John.

[amish rob]

Re: Quadrant

Looks good, Jim!

But, what type of wall hanging will you use to replace the quadrant?



Kevin

I could always send some art to hang in that spot.

[Jim Ledger]

Re: Quadrant

Looks good, Jim!

But, what type of wall hanging will you use to replace the quadrant?



Kevin

Well, Kevin, the suggestions are just pouring in.

The bigger issue is just how much redecorating the old house is gonna need once all the rest of the little bronzey bits get fastened in place on the boat. We're going to looks very minimalist here, probably have to make a trip to Pottery Barn.

Why, that battered old tin which used to hold the bacon grease, of course ! ! !

I was happily whittling down the patterns to the sides of the wheelbox when I felt an uncomfortable feeling coming on.
An "oh, sh%t " moment that resolved itself into the realization that there would need to be width enough to extract the quadrant from the rudder. As the quadrant itself is an unusually wide piece at thirty inches, then the box would need to be at least thirty-six inches wide to accomodate the quadrant with three inches on each side for a couple of corner posts. This would not be much of a problem but for the need to turn the wheel while sitting the seat alongside, a most common arrangement in catboats.

So it's back to page one, a fresh sheet of paper. But first a few days moan while the self-recriminations die back to more manageable levels.

Here's the situation. I might be able to live with this by cutting down the height to the absolute minimum so the top of the box became an uncushioned seat. Another way to go might be to make a seat right across the back with a minimal box on top of the seat. Whatever gets done there's a whole lot of rethinking needed right when I was starting to get going.

I could always send some art to hang in that spot.

Thanks, guys.

[Jim Ledger]

Re: Quadrant

Jim
Like always, "WoW" what beautiful work both in wood and bronze, and in pattern making and the final part. You got it all covered!
I do have some questions if you don't mind, my first step before I cast anything else, is I need to make a combination lifting tongs/pouring shank, the step between the lifting tongs and the pouring shank it just plain a two man job if it takes two tools. Seems like I found better information on this style of lifting tongs in the past but now I can only seem to find a couple of you tube videos both of which are really flaky. The one built out of rebar and the other looks worse than that. I think I will be able to figure it out but have you posted any pictures of yours?
My real question is about petrobond, am I correct in guessing that a cubic foot would be about 75-80 lbs? And is there a better source for it in Seattle than Amazon or PMC supplies? And finally what grit are you using?
I have got about maybe 4 to 5 cubic feet of green sand which has been enough for the things I cast but I would like to "up my game" a little bit and be able get a little more detail (read as parts that don't lose their shoulders). I can only use a #10 or #12 crucible so I am thinking that 2 cubic feet should be enough.
And Thanks for the inspiration.
John.

Let me get back to you later on this, John.

Jim

[Breakaway]

Well, Kevin, the suggestions are just pouring in.

The bigger issue is just how much redecorating the old house is gonna need once all the rest of the little bronzey bits get fastened in place on the boat. We're going to looks very minimalist here, probably have to make a trip to Pottery Barn.





I was happily whittling down the patterns to the sides of the wheelbox when I felt an uncomfortable feeling coming on.
An "oh, sh%t " moment that resolved itself into the realization that there would need to be width enough to extract the quadrant from the rudder. As the quadrant itself is an unusually wide piece at thirty inches, then the box would need to be at least thirty-six inches wide to accomodate the quadrant with three inches on each side for a couple of corner posts. This would not be much of a problem but for the need to turn the wheel while sitting the seat alongside, a most common arrangement in catboats.

So it's back to page one, a fresh sheet of paper. But first a few days moan while the self-recriminations die back to more manageable levels.

Here's the situation. I might be able to live with this by cutting down the height to the absolute minimum so the top of the box became an uncushioned seat. Another way to go might be to make a seat right across the back with a minimal box on top of the seat. Whatever gets done there's a whole lot of rethinking needed right when I was starting to get going.






Thanks, guys.

Sorry for your setback. I can appreciate the feeling. Having watched you meet each challenge of this build with energy, expertise and excellence, I am confident you will arrive at the correct solution.

Kevin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ulav8r]

Re: Quadrant

Would it be possible to convert the as-planned box to a readily detachable unit?

[Jim Ledger]

Re: Quadrant

Jim
Like always, "WoW" what beautiful work both in wood and bronze, and in pattern making and the final part. You got it all covered!
I do have some questions if you don't mind, my first step before I cast anything else, is I need to make a combination lifting tongs/pouring shank, the step between the lifting tongs and the pouring shank it just plain a two man job if it takes two tools. Seems like I found better information on this style of lifting tongs in the past but now I can only seem to find a couple of you tube videos both of which are really flaky. The one built out of rebar and the other looks worse than that. I think I will be able to figure it out but have you posted any pictures of yours?
My real question is about petrobond, am I correct in guessing that a cubic foot would be about 75-80 lbs? And is there a better source for it in Seattle than Amazon or PMC supplies? And finally what grit are you using?
I have got about maybe 4 to 5 cubic feet of green sand which has been enough for the things I cast but I would like to "up my game" a little bit and be able get a little more detail (read as parts that don't lose their shoulders). I can only use a #10 or #12 crucible so I am thinking that 2 cubic feet should be enough.
And Thanks for the inspiration.
John.

Thanks for the interesting questions, John.

The way I use my pouring shank I can do the pour myself. Here's a series of photos that show the method. First the crucible is lifted out of the furnace with the lifting tongs. The pouring shank is on the ground, close enough so that I don't need to take a step. I put a small pile of dry sand in the pouring shank on which to rest the crucible...





Setting the crucible into the ring of the pouring shank...





Pouring into the mold with one end of the shank on the ground. A little planning and a run-through pays off here




Lifting tongs...





I bought a smaller crucible at one point and made a set of lift-out tongs that could also be used to pour, thus making the pouring operation much faster.





Here's the detail of the tongs and a comparison between the two crucible sizes.






As for the Petrobond, I haven't bought any in years. For a while it was hard to find but now I see it's available, but at a higher price. It's a fine grained sand, that's all I know. When it dries out I put in a tablespoonful of 30 wt. non-detergent motor oil in about five gallons of sand and let it sit until I need it again, by which yime the oil has dissappeared.

good Luck,

Jim

[Jim Ledger]

Re: Quadrant

Sorry for your setback. I can appreciate the feeling. Having watched you meet each challenge of this build with energy, expertise and excellence, I am confident you will arrive at the correct solution.

Kevin

Thanks for your confidence, Kevin. Things will work out for the best. The mock-up process worked as it should have and pointed out the error of my ways before any expensive material was cut. At least there's that.

Jim

[Jim Ledger]

Re: Quadrant

Would it be possible to convert the as-planned box to a readily detachable unit?

Not really, the seats become integral to the wheelbox and the quadrant needs to be withdrawn anytime the rudder needs to be unshipped.

There are other way's though. Here's a drawing by Fenwick Williams taken from "The Design Elements of the Catboat". Here the seats wrap around and there's only a shallow, removeable box covering the mechanism. The quadrant can be withdrawn from underneath the seat, the front bearing of the wheel shaft can be mounted of a solid deck beam. It seems possible to be able to sit close to, or behind the wheel.

Jim

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Quadrant

That is a lot of wheel in a cramped looking cockpit.
How big is yours going to be, Jim, is it worth adding it to the mock-up that you are building?
I see that yours is going to be less greedy of space.

You were talking about the engine instrument panel. It looks as though that might be better on the slope of the engine box

[Jim Ledger]

Re: Quadrant

That is a lot of wheel in a cramped looking cockpit.
How big is yours going to be, Jim, is it worth adding it to the mock-up that you are building?
I see that yours is going to be less greedy of space.

You were talking about the engine instrument panel. It looks as though that might be better on the slope of the engine box

The example that Fenwick Williams uses in the book is a twenty footer, Nick, so naturally the cockpit looks cramped. We have much more room to play around with. It was the engine controls, not the instrument panel, which I was hoping to use on the side of the wheelbox, but I have not yet ruled that out.

As for the instrument panel, I'm thinking of making two lockers in the forward corners of the cockpit which would provide a suitable surface or it. I need a place to put a vented LP gas locker and that would provide a place. Also, two lockers would make water and fuel tank removal possible.

Jim

[Canoeyawl]

Re: Quadrant

I know it's late, but if the pinion was under the quadrant it would be a non-issue...

[Stiletto]

Re: Quadrant

Wouldn't that make the quadrant turn the wrong way?

[Canoeyawl]

Re: Quadrant

depends on which side of the steering wheel you're standing on!
But yeah, it probably would...

[gray duck]

Re: Quadrant

The fenwick way of seats and small box was the way our old Marshall 22 was set up but with a more primitive connection than your quadrant. You could sit behind the wheel easily or on either side. I'd vote for whatever is most comfortable for you to steer and sail your boat.