Head instead of V-berth?

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  • chollapete
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2018
    • 119

    Head instead of V-berth?

    I'm seriously considering building a Gartside #116A, but I'd like to ask whether anyone has opinions concerning not having a V-berth. In terms of a cruising couple not having a sufficiently-sized "playground". Lol. I seem to prefer how Adkins and others place the head astern, often on the port side. Btw, the #116A is a 26 ft LOA hull, presumably not including the bowsprit.
  • Ian McColgin
    Senior Member
    • Apr 1999
    • 51639

    #2
    Re: Head instead of V-berth?

    From what I see on the web, the head is forward.

    I am pessimistic about V berths for two reasons: I like my legs cool when sleeping, often pushing the bedding away from my thighs down. Also, a V berth entangles your legs with your partner making it hard to adjust while sleeping without bothering your partner. The other reason is the scaring from "my first time". My back kept banging and rubbing against the overhead and, that being a fiberglass boat, we created so much excess hot vapor to condense on the overhead and drip on us . . . it was like a miserable rain forest.

    Better to make a fold-up berth extension (shielded from the mast) for use at anchor. The extension makes a great fiddle board enabling one person to sleep while you're under way. And don't cruise with more than one.

    G'luck

    Comment

    • Chris249
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2013
      • 3316

      #3
      Re: Head instead of V-berth?

      It seems that if you want a boat that weighs as much as a modern 36 footer, yet which has less interior space than a '60s 28 footer or some modern 22 footers, you're going to have to accept compromises.

      It looks to me as if there's not even a bulkhead between the head and the saloon, and that the head compartment curtain runs across the port saloon berth which would be embarrassing when one partner is sleeping and the other dealing with the effects of a curry. If you're going to effectively have the head and bunk together, why not put a vee berth over the head?

      One may also wonder how much romance will be kindled when there appears to be nowhere to prepare or eat fine food and wine. Where does one put two plates, two pots and all the ingredients?

      We have a minimalist vee berth on the 4000 lb 28 footer and a huge one on the 10000 lb J/36. We did get tangled a bit in the smaller boat but still always slept there. Both boats have a forehatch overhead to solve the ventilation issue.

      I have to confess, while I try to see the good side of boats, I just cannot understand many boats like the Gartside. Why make something so heavy, with such a large rig, when it contains so little room? It's not as if it's going to go very fast and it's hard to see any naval architectural theory or practical experience that says that a small ultra-heavy boat is safer or more comfortable than something with the same weight and rig but in a longer hull.
      Last edited by Chris249; 01-03-2019, 06:29 AM.

      Comment

      • Ian McColgin
        Senior Member
        • Apr 1999
        • 51639

        #4
        Re: Head instead of V-berth?

        A good head in a small boat is a real challenge. I'm a fan of the AirHead but it might be a little high to fit in this boat forward of the mast. Maybe if you move it aft a hair so's to gain some overhead room under the forehatch ? ? ?

        The reason for putting the head at the foot of the companionway is obvious - convenience. But in a really small boat that's not so obvious. Marmalade's starboard side head gave little in the way of turn-around space and nothing in the way of standing headroom. Basically, I had to teach people to loosen belt and waist band, then facing broad on the starboard bow, swing the right foot in, pivot to really face the bow while dropping trou, left foot in and smooth deep squat. There was a good hand hold bar. Once seated, access to the Pullman style sink, view in the mirror, and all that was quite nice and all was tight enough that you'd not fall out or even strain under way.

        I believe in the head facing forward or aft and the throne itself being in a tight space. Most people need to relax various muscles and activate others to get anything done and good bracing on either side is the way to get that.

        All of which means that assuming you can solve the headroom issue, a head forward of the mast is more likely to be easy to get settled on.

        Gents might be tempted to take their wizz over the side, very dangerous in this boat. Surrender your modesty and aim for the lower cockpit drain or (especially nice if your partner is a woman) invest in a catheter per person. Works for long distance solo or small plane pilots.

        The legendary Herreshoff bucket can be used in the cockpit well but in conditions you'd be tempted by that, the amount of spray might be inhibiting.

        Small boat intimacy has so many more dimensions that anything ashore.

        G'luck

        Comment

        • P.I. Stazzer-Newt
          obnoxiously persistent.
          • Jan 2005
          • 26001

          #5
          Re: Head instead of V-berth?

          Anything that n the pointy end is subject to fairly violent motion in rough weather, this is bad news in a V berth and possibly worse if trying to use the head.

          I'd not willingly use a V berth at sea, though they can work at anchor or in harbour.
          I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

          Comment

          • Jay Greer
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2004
            • 14425

            #6
            Re: Head instead of V-berth?

            Comment

            • Bobcat
              Formerly a Smallboat Guy
              • May 2007
              • 9540

              #7
              Re: Head instead of V-berth?

              Originally posted by Jay Greer
              Always an option if you don't mind throwing raw sewage overboard.

              Aren't we past that point yet?
              What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

              Comment

              • Breakaway
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2007
                • 28419

                #8
                Re: Head instead of V-berth?

                My opinion is that aboard a small boat, one's point of view should be that of a camper.

                So, rather than bemoan the lack of luxury or privacy, I am grateful that I do not have to dig a privy nor watch out for poison ivy. Similarly, I am grateful that, rather than having to carry my bed and my stores on my back, the boat carries them. One needs a pretty big boat to deliver bonafide privacy and land-like comfort.


                Kevin
                Kevin
                There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

                Comment

                • wizbang 13
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 24799

                  #9
                  Re: Head instead of V-berth?

                  I met a chap at the ptwbf last year, he is a member here (coffeeman). He put a bunch a coffee, peat moss and sawdust in a 5 gallon bucket , and has a bag with s’more. He used it for weeks , then took it ashore and hurried the contents.
                  Thus, one does not HAVE to throw doody overboard jus cuz one uses a bucket,(like I have for 45 years).

                  Comment

                  • Ian McColgin
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 1999
                    • 51639

                    #10
                    Re: Head instead of V-berth?

                    My AirHead calls for peat and years back I began adding the morning's coffee rounds after they dried. For composting, sawdust is a bit more of a question. For composting, you really want the urine separation ability.

                    Comment

                    • J.Madison
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 3976

                      #11
                      Re: Head instead of V-berth?

                      Having the head forward in a small boat makes a lot of sense. You use the head less than any other part of the boat in terms of total minutes. It should be in the least useful part of the boat- way up forward.

                      Sleeping in a V-berth is okay at anchor, but it's the worst place at sea. I like a small galley aft, spread along the aft bulkhead with two settees immediately forward of the galley. This gives a social cabin, comfortable sleeping motion, and the opportunity to pull out an extension to create a double berth if desired. For the rare time you need to use the head but the forepeak is too lively- the bucket will serve well.

                      Some people like heavy boats btw, and some people really DON'T like high freeboard, extremely wide hulls made of lightweight fiberglass. All boats are compromises, and to some sailors, the 116A is a dream boat.

                      Comment

                      • J.Madison
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 3976

                        #12
                        Re: Head instead of V-berth?

                        Originally posted by Bobcat
                        Always an option if you don't mind throwing raw sewage overboard.

                        Aren't we past that point yet?
                        You mean how the entire city of Victoria dumps their raw sewage directly into the Straights- to be sucked down into the sound on every tide? The occasional offering of a varnished bucket pales in comparison to the municipal discharges.

                        That said, one should follow the law, or the spirit of the law at least, and don't dump near shore and certainly not in a protected anchorage.

                        Comment

                        • Bobcat
                          Formerly a Smallboat Guy
                          • May 2007
                          • 9540

                          #13
                          Re: Head instead of V-berth?

                          Originally posted by J.Madison
                          You mean how the entire city of Victoria dumps their raw sewage directly into the Straights- to be sucked down into the sound on every tide? The occasional offering of a varnished bucket pales in comparison to the municipal discharges.

                          That said, one should follow the law, or the spirit of the law at least, and don't dump near shore and certainly not in a protected anchorage.
                          Not a fan of what Victoria does, obviously

                          But how about not adding to the problem and not putting sewage in the water?

                          I have a composting head, which is a wonderful invention
                          What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

                          Comment

                          • Matt young
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2015
                            • 593

                            #14
                            Re: Head instead of V-berth?

                            I read Ruel Parker’s take on this topic, it’s interesting. He is a fan of the head being under a hatch in a cockpit bench. Now I know some people just aren’t going to be down with this. But I think his reasoning has some validity to it. Smell is not trapped in the cabin, no lost cabin space, the crew is living together in a small space anyway so just get over it, and to a passer-byer it appears that you are just sitting in the cockpit. Personally if I was having a curry event I would not want the smell trapped below.

                            When I am sailing my canoe I kneel and pee into my bailing pitcher then dump and rinse over the side, easy and safe!
                            Last edited by Matt young; 01-03-2019, 03:39 PM.
                            "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
                            -The Dude-

                            Comment

                            • Jay Greer
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 14425

                              #15
                              Re: Head instead of V-berth?

                              Originally posted by Bobcat
                              Always an option if you don't mind throwing raw sewage overboard.

                              Aren't we past that point yet?
                              . We do not throw raw sewage overboard! The solution is in using Wag Bags/avaiable from REI and other sport shops. These sterile bags contain a powder that absorbs moisture and turns it into an odorless, sterile and disposable solid. In port, the bag can be placed in any trash can that can "legally" accept baby diapers. Offshore in international waters, sewage waste discharge is not regulated.
                              Jay
                              Last edited by Jay Greer; 01-03-2019, 12:54 PM.

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