Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

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  • MakoShark
    Junior Member
    • Nov 2022
    • 25

    Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

    WoodedBoat Forum... Hello!

    I've been soaking up the knowledge contained herein for many years now (at my grandpa's knee, almost, were he a boatbuilder or an internet user....) At long last, I find myself possessed of a question that must-needs-be asked in these byte-worn pages.

    So... the age old question; what is the best boat.... for "x"?

    And before you ship your tobacco-stained piped, hike out starboard (to balance my disappearing weight), and toss me overboard for asking such a lubberly question (pretty much used all the good nautical terms there, I think) read on. I actually have a list of requirements. In order of importance, no less!

    1st. She must be a sailboat. See point 3. And besides... sailboat.

    2nd. She must be buildable by a very capable amateur, but quickly and without steamers, arcane hand-tools, or exotic timbers. I live in Texas and have a full-time job; I'd love to build a period-accurate replica of a pilot cutter that would shame the Bristol channel beauties, but it's not practical. Plywood desired, nail-and-glue preferred, but stitch-and-glue is acceptable.

    3nd. She must be less than 14ft OA; I'm not a-feared of the eye of the lawman, but neither do I court it. In Texas, one must humbly request that the game warden approve one's craft if she be o'er 14 ft in her lines. This also applies to any form of boat with motorized contraptions applying forward pressure to her stern or interior crossmember to allow one to get where one is going without resorting to vagaries of the wind. I'd rather not have to get 'er registered, inspected, etc. One day, with another boat, but not at the most.

    4rd. Simple traditional rig, no stays. Preferably sprit-sail or lugger. Sailing is the priority, not playing with my bits of rope at the boat-ramp.

    d. She should be of fairly shallow draft; Texas lakes run deep in places, but they have many a shallow bay perfect for modern day buccaneering.

    5th. She should capable of carrying a substantial load (2-3 adults) and still make way to windward. Speed in doing so is not a priority; being able to get back to her trailer BEFORE the weekend is over is. I have all day, I don't want to spend it worrying if I'll miss work on Monday because I was marooned upwind of the boat ramp.

    6th. Preferably no cabin; wide side decks and foredecks for comfort in a blow or cold weather, yes, but if I need to overnight, I'll do so ashore in a tent, or with a custom made cover pulled over the whole boat. I have more need of elbow room (2 daughters and a wife) than I do of questionable sleeping room.

    With these mild and not at all demanding specifications in mind... where might I find plans for such a craft? I've perused many websites and seen many good craft. Weldsford's SCAMP, many of Selway-fisher's designs, several of Bolger's boats, even a few fiberglass wonders I considered purchasing, and of course the lovely small boats of Atkin's (I know, not plywood). In the end, I found myself with the same issue with all; for their length, they don't look very big. And when they look as though they would feel big, they are too long. (looking at you, Selway-Fisher Skylark 16).

    I am currently building a second Bolger Elegant Punt to complement my first (wonderful little craft, these but they aren't the sort of thing two adults would spend much time in). Multiple punts, multiple adults, racing each other would be a recipe for great summer fun. However, in the cold waters of wintertime Texas, racing such small craft is likely to end up chilly and wet. In the summer, one has plenty of friends and bystanders who are eager to learn the joys of sailing, but whom one wouldn't trust alone with a 70sqft canvas in a 8ft boat. Liability being what it is these days, not to mention the likelihood of loosing a pleasant little boat.

    I now want something bigger. Help?
  • AJBTC
    Member
    • Jun 2022
    • 95

    #2
    Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

    You want beam for all those people in a boat under 14 feet. You'll be sitting side by side in that length, so having room port to starboard is what you need. Plus, you want the stability from a wider boat--having 3 adults who can't move without causing everyone else to adjust is not fun.

    My first impression would be an Ilur or Beg-Meil by Vivier, or a Tammie Norrie by Oughtred.

    Comment

    • MakoShark
      Junior Member
      • Nov 2022
      • 25

      #3
      Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

      You grasp my needs admirably swiftly! I agree and have been eyeing more of the "pram" variety of sailing vessels for exactly the reasons you elucidate. (just blew my allowance on 50 cent words there....)

      Ah, Tammie Norrie... she's beautiful, as are nearly all of Mr. Oughtred's craft. I've seen her before but dismissed her (perhaps without justice) as being too fiddly a build for my backyard efforts. Am I wrong in thinking so?

      I have seen Vivier's boats before, but it was long ago, before the fortune of experience and good job were my lot, expanding the possibilities of bigger and better boats. Ilur ( in it's clinker form) is so close to my wants that I'm tempted to end the search here. I've been browsing for weeks; how did I miss this? I saw his "Morbic 10" just the other day on Duckworks, but it was a bit small, so I passed on.

      Comment

      • AJBTC
        Member
        • Jun 2022
        • 95

        #4
        Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

        I grasp your needs because I have a big family

        I'm not a builder so I can't advise on the difficulty of building one or another.

        A prom nose would be great to get volume in a short boat. I just don't know of any in the 14 foot range (they seem to be either shorter, as tenders, or longer as row/sail boats (Seil 18). There is a Nuthatch pram on the Duckworks site but I don't know anything about it.

        I would throw in an Arch Davis Penobscot 14 just because I personally find it so pretty.

        Comment

        • MakoShark
          Junior Member
          • Nov 2022
          • 25

          #5
          Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

          A good thing to hear!

          Fair enough! He DOES say that it is "easier to build", tho...

          Exactly the difficulty I find myself in: they are actually very "shippy" looking little boats (the Elegant Punt has rewarded my pocket and my labor admirably in that regard), but they do seem to be rare in the size I'm looking for.

          Ah, unfair shot, sir! Any sailor is a sucker for a sheer like that! If I had the time, ah, the wine-glass sterns and beautiful prows I'd craft....

          Comment

          • MakoShark
            Junior Member
            • Nov 2022
            • 25

            #6
            Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

            Thank you for overcoming the hesitation! More eyes are better (and see more boats!)

            It always worries me to modify a good designer's plan; they know much better than I how their boat should handle. Plus, I'm one of those fellows that isn't much good at stopping when the stopping is good. I'd try to shorten her an inch and end up giving her a pram bow and a full cabin.... Still, all that said, do you suppose the modification would hurt her any? She does fit my needs well (especially in the ease of building), even if she hasn't the classic lines of Ilur...

            I'm fond of them myself, but I've found that in power-boat territory they have an unnerving tendency to pound unmercifully in any kind of a wake. That's not enough to prevent me building one, but just the reason I had overlooked Mayfly. It's no concern in a breeze when you're sailing on her chines, but Texas is a land of sporadic and untrust-worthy winds. Then again, my flatties have all been of the smaller variety (or aluminum mud-boats *shudder). Have you experienced better from the larger ones?

            Comment

            • Hugh MacD
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2015
              • 5557

              #7
              Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

              If you don't mind the aesthetics (which fall into a category of their own here) an Oz Goose sounds like it would check most of your boxes. Probably about as far from a Bristol Channel Cutter as you can get and, in fact, closre to a cement mixing trough, but they're a truly impressive little boat.

              Comment

              • MakoShark
                Junior Member
                • Nov 2022
                • 25

                #8
                Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

                Oh, that makes sense. Especially in sheltered waters. I believe I shall look further into this. The Mayfly to sail and Ilur to admire in my backyard....

                An endorsement from one has has been and done is always better heeded than any amount of blather from armchair sailors, I find. I shall keep that in mind.


                Avast!! Ta the bottom with any sailor caught on the seas with Harbor Fright special sail! *kicks the wife's polytarp damaged needles under the couch and out of sight* Ignore the bit' o blue canvas on me own craft, tis only a.... rain cover, for our Northeast Texas rainstorms, y'see!

                Understandable, but I always think the fellows who have been out and done it (even if it's not the "right" way *eye-roll*) tend have better stories than the fellows who spend all their time varnishing the brightwork. I'll not be sailing the world in a J Class sloop any-time soon, but I have a fine chance of having an adventure with my toddler matey's aboard of a flat-bottom skiff!

                Comment

                • MakoShark
                  Junior Member
                  • Nov 2022
                  • 25

                  #9
                  Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

                  Hugh,

                  I wondered if the venerable Bolger Brick or it's descendants would make an appearance here! I considered it long and hard, I assure you. In fact, I may build one next summer, just for the fun of it.

                  *hushed whisper* I've heard tales of their speed, in the right hands.... 15 knots or so, in one extreme case...

                  Comment

                  • Woxbox
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 9923

                    #10
                    Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

                    I think it's gotta be a catboat to do the job. Wittholz has a 14'11" one that would be nice, but yes, you'd have to squeeze 11" out of it -- if the authorities actually come around with a measuring tape. Do they? At any rate, you won't find a roomier cockpit in any other boat this length.

                    The other option is to stretch a Scamp out to 14'. That would do the job, too.


                    -Dave

                    Comment

                    • John hartmann
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2012
                      • 1752

                      #11
                      Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

                      The ilur is a mighty boat, but a bit big for your needs at 14’8”. The Morbic 12 is very similar, but within your requirements.
                      7DF30AEF-6577-409B-B3D3-1EF4084460CB.jpg
                      B0D6F216-D148-4DC1-BBF7-3C3910E5C8AA.jpg
                      B7468342-459D-40AA-8953-56511E3AE2FA.jpg

                      Comment

                      • MakoShark
                        Junior Member
                        • Nov 2022
                        • 25

                        #12
                        Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

                        Woxbox,

                        I was JUST pricing the Wittholz plans today! I think the one I was eyeing was just under 14ft? I may be mistaken... Then I posted here and got sidetracked...
                        Anyway, to answer your question, yes, they will come a-measuring. Many people and badges Texans may be willing to ignore or jeer, but the game warden is not one of them. Within his bailiwick, he is very nearly all-powerful. And where he isn't, he usually thinks he is. Even if you're in the right, it only takes one with a nasty attitude to give you a very bad time for a very long time.

                        John Hartman,

                        The bigger the better, but I didn't realize Ilur was over 14ft? Oops.
                        That Morbic 12 looks beamier in those photos than in the ones I saw previously. Any idea how easy/difficult these little clinker-ply boats are to build?

                        Comment

                        • John hartmann
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 1752

                          #13
                          Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

                          Perhaps you were looking at Mr. Vivier’s 10 footer, also called Morbic. The CNC kits are very approachable for a homebuilder; different kit suppliers will have kits that are more or less complete, and some, like Clint Chase, have kits that are most sincerely complete. The whole concept of the interior furniture, bulkheads and stringers becoming the building jig in this type of build is well recognised now, but still mind bending to me for its combination of ease and speed of build, strength, and efficient use of materials. You will still need to learn how to cut gains and fashion rolling plank bevels, but those are not terribly challenging skills to muster as an amateur new to glued lap construction.

                          Comment

                          • neil.henderson
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2015
                            • 901

                            #14
                            Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

                            Hi,
                            I suggest you have a really good ponder about how many will be sailing in the boat together. When I was growing up my father had an 11' dinghy which we rowed, sailed & motored with endless fun doing lots of highly dangerous maneuvers that fortunately came to naught (she was a very forgiving dinghy) - but when sailing we had generally with 2 or 1 people in the boat, unless we were motoring.
                            So, if you want to sail with 4 people I'd suggest a minimum of 16' LOA, if you want to sail with 2 or possibly 3 then you could get away with 14-15'.

                            Glued clinker is not difficult - my boats don't sink!!

                            The Ilur is lovely (watch Roger Barnes's video on youtube), Paul Gartside's designs are great, I am an Oughtred fan. Is licensing/registering the boat really difficult? I thought this would happen when I had to register my 17' day launch (internal diesel) and my fears were unfounded - it was really easy. And we ca't let a wee bit of admin get in the way of our dreams can we!!

                            Bon Chance Neil

                            Comment

                            • NeilMB
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2021
                              • 243

                              #15
                              Re: Best Boat... For This Specific Scenario

                              Texas, plywood, shallow, sub-14’, how about the Welsford Saturday Night Special which was literally designed for tat scenario: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...t-Special-quot, https://duckworks.com/saturday-night...tant-download/

                              Lug rig, easy building, safe, dry, takes plenty of weight. What’s not to love? (Okay, it’s not as salty looking as a Morbic or an Ilur, but it’s a f’real boaty boat.)
                              Dreaming of sailing in Iowa: built a Carnell Nutmeg, building a Harry Bryan Fiddlehead.

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