Hartley TS14 Construction

[Geary]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction



The frames/ribs are almost done. They are looking pretty good. But no matter how many times I check my measurements, pieces that are supposed to be square aren't quite square, one or two of the frames aren't quite symmetric, etc. I'm kinda a perfectionist, so maybe my standards are too high. I guess I better get good at hiding my mistakes.

I made a slight design change (copying Bob Smalser's TS14). I made the top of the transom slightly rounded instead of flat, since this boat is not going to have the full width motor well shown in the plans. (It'll have a smaller well on one side of the rudder).

Haha ... I wasn't sure if I was going to coat the inside of the hull with epoxy, but by the time I finish building it, the inside will be almost completely coated already. What a sticky mess! I'm learning how to mix epoxy though. I didn't add enough thickeners to the epoxy for the first frame and it dripped out a little. I learned that if the epoxy sags in the pot, then its too thin to use as glue and it will sag and drip out of the joint once it's applied. So a mayonaise (non-sagging) consistency is good.

The hand drawn Hartley plans don't make sense sometimes. For example, the plans say to put gussets on both sides of the bulkhead frame. But then the gussets would be in the way for the plywood bulkhead installation later. Conveniently, the plan view that shows the bulkhead installation doesn't show the gussets that are in the way. So I didn't follow the plans and put gussets on just one side of that frame.

Patience, I'll have something resembling an upside-down boat soon!

[Randall Dedrickson]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Yes it is true that not everything is shown on the plans. On my TS-16 plan it actually does show only one side needing gussets at the bulkhead frame. When it came time for framing in for the floor I had to add supports for the flooring not shown on the plans.Sometimes there is some head scratching but it all works out in the end. When it comes time to bevel the stem and keelson I would use a power plane for the most part and finish with a hand plane. its a real time saver. An alternative to using thickend epoxy on the structural components such as stringers to frame and plywood to stringers is to use T-88 epoxy or Gel Magic from Systems Three. It mixes up thick and has a longer working time than general purpose epoxy(depending on the tempature)

[Geary]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

... On my TS-16 plan it actually does show only one side needing gussets at the bulkhead frame. ...

Interesting. I wonder if my TS14 plans have more mistakes because the TS14 isn't as popular as the TS16.

How are you planning on attaching the plywood floor to the frames? Is it supposed to be removable? Is it supposed to be water tight? I suppose it should be water tight if the cockpit is self-draining. I haven't figured out if my cockpit can be self-draining ... my guess would be no. But I have seen a lot of self-draining TS16 cockpits online.

[Larks]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

I have seen a TS 16 with the some of the floors/decks sealed in to provide a buoyancy cell underneath as well as another with them screwed down but removable with a stack of milk bottles shoved underneath to again provide a buoyancy cell.

Personally I don't like those ideas and at best think them to be a bit of a waste of effort and potential for water to sit and cause problems unless you know your centreboard case and pin are well sealed. I am replacing by cabin floor/deck framing but they were mostly the longitudinal frames just slotted into blocks in the frames, which I'm also now replacing. The deck panels themselves were just sitting on top and I never had any great problems with them moving and it makes it easier to lift them to hose out after a sail. When I replace them I may screw some down with a few decent access hatches to check for water and to still be able to hose out.

Here's an old photo that shows the slots for the longitudinals:

[Geary]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

I have finished the frames and attached them to the strongback. In another thread on this forum, I read that the TS-16 plans say to fill the nooks in between the gussets on the frames. The TS-14 plans don't say this, but I think its a good idea to prevent standing water and rot. I generously epoxied some wedges of wood into these nooks before putting the frames on the strongback.



Also shown in the photo is the frame of a used boat trailer that I just started restoring. I'm in the process of stripping off the old paint. I found some rust, but not bad at all. I'm toying with the idea of getting the trailer galvanized (along with the boat's steel centerplate), but priming and painting may be adequate, since the frame is open C-channel construction.

Here is a pic from last week before I took it apart. It's a 1972 Gator Trailer, (a tilting trailer for a 14-16 ft boat, unknown weight capacity). It needs a lot of work (new axle, tires, lights, etc) due to age and neglect but I really like the tilting frame and roller/bunk arrangement. That steel walking platform is a nice feature too.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Great stuff Geary. I still think hot dipped galvanising is the way to go and now you've got the trailer you may well get a nice price and get both CB and trailer done at the same time. It's exactly the same principle at work as you epoxying in small wedges between gussets on the frames: preservation and reduced maintenance.

Just one suggestion: You may wish to resize your images slightly as they don't show when posted on the forum. I just get a "?" and I have to open them in another window/tab, but other people may be more lazy than I.

Anyhoo, nice stuff mate!

[Larks]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

I must be one of them, I can only see X. Geary, if you can get the trailor and centrboard galvanized at the same time I'd certainly advocate it as well. I can't see the trailor photo but if you strip it right back to a bare frame you may find the same guys that will galv it may sand or shot blast it for you before hand which will save you some labour stripping rust.

[RFNK]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Geary
Good luck with this! My father had a TS 16 a long time ago and we had plenty of fun in it. I had a look at your blog and noted that your centreboard was bent and you had to straighten it. My next door neighbour has a little 18' trailer sailer (I think it's called a Sou'wester or something like that - it's called C'est la Vie - you might know it Greg - it came down from Darwin (should be called a Sou'easter ) and we discovered the CB was bent. We ended up putting it over the kerb of the road, driving his tool-laden van onto it and both of us jumped up and down on the van's rear bumper bar to get the thing straight - it worked! Anyway, the point is, somehow they do bend and they do hit things so DON'T cover it with epoxy as it will rust under the epoxy as the epoxy cracks. Galvanise if you can but otherwise, just install it so it's easy to remove and paint it each year. Rick

[Soverignisle]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Geary, I have often heard of people waiting long periods for plan sets ordered from Hartley & Brookes Associates, well after much procrastination I ordered a set of building plans for the Hartley 24 (same as WX), on the 09 August. Lets hope they they don't take as long to get here as I did on making a decision. Phill

[Candyfloss]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Your pics come up fine on my laptop.
Good work mate.

[Bill R]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Geary- back to your CB for a sec. You can get cold galvanizing compound in spray cans (common) or regular paint cans (less common) at any good industrial supply house. We regularly use it on transmission towers in coastal environments to protect bare metal and repair hot-dip galvanizing. If you are interested, pm me and i will give you brand names, pricing and suppliers.

[Geary]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Geary, I have often heard of people waiting long periods for plan sets ordered from Hartley ....
Phill

It took almost 5 weeks to receive my plans. I imagine it'll be about the same for you. Maybe earlier if you are lucky. About the time I gave up all hope, the plans came in the mail. I was about to order another set from a US company that illegitimately sells Hartley plans, (but they offer better support and quicker shipping).

You can get cold galvanizing compound in spray cans (common) or regular paint cans (less common) at any good industrial supply house. ...

Thanks for the tip. I'm also looking into Zinc rich epoxy primer and other Zinc primers for metal. (Zinc ... same ingredient as the galvanized coating). I think maybe the metal primers would be more abrasion resistant and a better base coat than the galvanized spray. Unfortunately, its an uncommon industrial paint, so I have to special order it from the neighborhood paint store.

[Geary]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Hey everyone. I'm still working on the boat. I didn't give up, I just had a slight delay ... I had to study for a professional exam for a few months. But I'm back spending the majority of my free time working on the boat.

I installed the keelson and the stem. It was pretty straight forward, just glue and screw ... except I spent a few hours measuring and making sure all the frames were square first.

Here's a pic of the second layer of the keelson being dry fit.



And here is a pic a week later with the keelson and stem installed. The stem looks like its just where I want it ... what a relief.



I made all the stringers, chines, and gunwales. I scarfed pieces of wood together for the first time. They turned out OK, but I think I'm going to clamp them together next time instead of just laying them on the floor and putting a weight on the joint. I'll let you know if the scarf joints break when I try to bend the peices onto the frames. I'm going to let the epoxy cure for a few days longer first.

[Geary]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Oh yes, and another reason I haven't been working on the boat. I decided to restore the trailer first. Here it is almost done (the new fenders aren't installed yet in this photo). Galvanized wheels, galvanized axle, galvanized hubs, painted frame.

[Larks]

Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

Looking very good Geary, the trailer looks great!! If you haven't already thought of it, a couple of guide rollers on either side aft of the side bench's/beams on the trailer make loading a whole lote easier to centre the boat on the centre rollers and avoid banging into the sharp edges of the benches.