Biden going after semi-automatics?

[WX]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

Perhaps that might be an approach for the anti gun lobbyists - demand your second amendment rights of having your militia well regulated!!!! No need to change the constitution ...

Isn't that the National Guard?

[Jim Mahan]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

A gun thread like this is sorta like taking a long walk to the dump without taking anything with you.

Aside from that, what is most obvious is that there are essentially just two positions, everyone posting to the thread has one, and no one is going to change theirs based on the thread.

Even with all the very most eloquent and highly reasoned and nuanced arguments against guns.

Smiley on that last line.

[Paul Pless]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

as with most issues important to progressives, the most that one can hope for is positive incremental change

A gun thread like this is sorta like taking a long walk to the dump without taking anything with you.

Aside from that, what is most obvious is that there are essentially just two positions, everyone posting to the thread has one, and no one is going to change theirs based on the thread.

Even with all the very most eloquent and highly reasoned and nuanced arguments against guns.

Smiley on that last line.

[Paul Pless]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

my intent, especially with regards locking of doors, has never been to be divisive
fwiw, i own and have owned many guns, never have i carried nor kept one for the purpose of self defense

also, i keep rottweilers as pets and consider them family members, no doubt they might warn some folks off,
but they just as easily be incapacitated or killed by an intruder with a gun or a baseball bat* - and i would mourn that event deeply

privileged, maybe
i prefer to consider myself to have been blessed by good fortune, but that is perhaps a cop out, still i think i try to recognize all of us live in different circumstances

* i'd put most of my rotties up against a guy with a pencil any day though. . .

[L.W. Baxter]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

What I find interesting is certain posters proclivity to neglecting reality and their absolute demonetization of gun owners. I've posted, many times, that I would have all guns, including ones owned by the police, go poof if I had god-like powers, but I recognize that I live in a different reality and feel compelled to act based upon that reality. They are raging at the sun for being bright and warm and then for setting everyday. It's not going to change any time soon, and certainly not in many of their lifetimes. And the most frustrating part is that they are willing to throw away the entirety of the left of center agenda on a pipe dream. Stupidest sh17 ever.

interesting *cough* to see you express this sentiment. i feel this way about any number of progressive pipe dreams dreamt in the context of our hot culture war. the stupidest of all perhaps being promotion of an avowed socialist and democratic party critic for potus.

regarding guns in our society i agree that real progress is not possible through lawmaking. any gains that are possible are inconsequential, and serve mostly to deepen our already deep cultural divide.

and we have come to the point where serious people are no longer working on gun control legislation, so anything proposed is driven by pandering (by and for the dedicated martyrs of the left) and marked by ignorance.

[RCRVRP]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

At work, we have a rowdy bunch, we don't allow guns in house but each of the office workers has a gel pepper spray at their desk. We've had two cases of workplace violence, more than likely a few we don't know about, and it's nice to have an option other than letting them fight it out.

What sort of place do you work at where the office workers must arm themselves with pepper spray?
A penal institution or what?
Seriously, why would management employ people they are scared of?
Why would you work at a place where employees feel the need to keep pepper spray at their desk?

[John Smith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

If President Biden were truly interested in harm reduction via reducing mass shootings, he could focus on domestic violence. About half of all mass shootings, per the FBI, are the end stage of domestic violence. If that were addressed and reduced, not only would there be fewer mass shootings, but the ancillary damage of years and years of physical and emotional prodrome that led up to the shooting would be avoided.

I'm not sure anything is possible, especially without GOP support.

[John Smith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

If you are a current owner of an AR type weapon, for whatever reason, and they become illegal, would you turn yours in, and would you then find a different way to legally own some kind of firearm or take up another hobby?

And if you would be put out by that infringement on your interests, do you think your being put out is more or less important than that a significantly larger group of people than gun owners feel at least as put out over death toll of the continued school and church and town council meetings being shot up by kids with ARs?

Is it more of a hardship for you to give up your AR than it is for parents to let their kids go to school knowing that some wound up teenager with an AR might show up and make your kid's school the latest in an obscenely long list of school shootings?

More directly, if it were shown to be the case, incontrovertibly, that your giving up your AR would lessen the number of kids dying by that kind of firearm, would you then be willing to let go of your AR?

If at some point in our collective future the US has turned this fiasco around and we end up with fewer gun violence deaths than, say, Denmark or New Zealand, would you gun owners feel like it was worth it, or would you want to revert to the way things are now, so you could have your interest back?

I doubt anyone turns one in for free. If the gov. would give them a fair price for the weapon, maybe some would turn them in.

My question is one of when the gun owner dies. Guns don't die with them. If his heirs don't want the guns, they ought to be able to sell them to local police, or other government agency, and get a fair price for them. Otherwise they'll sell them 'under the table'.

[CWSmith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

as with most issues important to progressives, the most that one can hope for is positive incremental change

Sad, but true.

For the record, living someplace where you do not lock your doors is not privilege. There are rural communities where they do not lock their doors that are no better off than the inner city. It's culture. Flame me for saying that if you want, but it's true.

As for Rottweilers not discouraging a man with a gun, they sure as hell would discourge me!

[John Smith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

The same argument applies about target shooting at ranges, Long guns with three round magazines or air pistols are still legal for target shooting. Semi autos are unnecessary.

More popular than living relatives or school kids?

Kudos to Canadians for being less murderous and homicidal than US Citizens. If your gun fatality rate were as high, would you still be supporting unregulated gun ownership?

All I can think of is Tim Taylor (Home Improvement) and his constant need for more power, but for no practical reason.

[John Smith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

You are all for regulating Drones but not High Capacity Semi Auto Guns - I’m gonna have to call weird on that one

“ very popular for ………, smaller men, and younger adults”

Like …..

Columbine High School massacre: 18-year-old Eric Harris and 17-year-old Dylan Klebold, students at Columbine High School, killed 12 students and one teacher.

15-year-old student Thomas "T.J." Solomon Jr. wounded six students at Heritage High School. A 15-year-old girl was hospitalized in critical condition,

13-year-old Victor Cordova Jr. fatally shot 13-year-old Deming Middle School schoolmate Araceli Tena. Cordova said he had intended to commit suicide but was jostled by others and his gun moved.He could not be charged as an adult as he was under 14, so he received the maximum sentence for a juvenile: a minimum of two years in prison, with a maximum of being held until his 21st birthday. In December 2003, he was released to his aunt and uncle to live with them in Colorado.

<sup>13-year-old Seth Trickey opened fire in the courtyard of his middle school using a gun brought from home. While there were no fatalities, several students felt sparks
from the bullets hitting the building walls. Five were injured, including a girl who was shot in the face. He was tried as a juvenile and released in March 2005.

Shooting of Kayla Rolland: At Buell Elementary School, a 6-year-old boy fatally shot 6-year-old classmate Kayla Rolland. To date, the boy is the youngest documented
fatal school shooter

13-year-old honor student, Nathaniel Brazill was sent home for throwing water balloons, but returned to his Lake Worth Middle School with a family pistol.
He fatally shot teacher Barry Grunow, who was popular at the school</sup>

13 year-olds Darrel Johnson and Alfred Anderson were initially charged with attempted first-degree murder, in the shooting of 15 year-old William Pennington. Pennington, after being shot, gained control of the gun and shot Johnson in the back
A 15-year-old Junipero Serra High Schoolstudent who showed off a handgun on campus and threatened to shoot a classmate, ended up accidentally shooting himself, causing minor injuries

Santana High School shooting: 15-year-old student, Charles Andrew Williams, killed two students, 14-year-old Bryan Zuckor, and 17-year-old Randy Gordon, at Santana High School. In total, he wounded thirteen others.

17-year-old Donald Ray Burt Jr., fatally shot Neal Boyd IV, with one bullet to the head in a parking lot outside Lew Wallace High School.
A 15-year-old student was shot in the abdomen and wounded inside the basement of Lincoln High School during an argument with another student. Another 15-year-old student was arrested and charged with attempted murder.

John McDonogh High School shooting. 18-year-old Steven Williams, and 17-year-old James Tate, opened fire with an AK-47 and a handgun in the gymnasium of John McDonogh High School, killing a 15-year-old student and wounding three female students.

^{LOTS and LOTS more here}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...000–present)

I've gotten NOWHERE simply suggest a tax on ammunition to pay for funeral/medical expenses of those shot. I see little hope for this way of life changing.

[WI-Tom]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

we have come to the point where serious people are no longer working on gun control legislation, so anything proposed is driven by pandering (by and for the dedicated martyrs of the left) and marked by ignorance.

Interesting. "Pandering" and "ignorance"--those are the hallmarks of the New England Journal of Medicine, is it?

The prevention of future mass killings should begin with making it far more difficult to obtain semiautomatic firearms, especially ones that can be easily converted into automatic weapons.3,4 The federal government strictly controls fully automatic weapons, but many semiautomatic weapons can be turned into fully automatic machine guns by their owners. And it was, in part, fully automatic weapons capabilities that seem to have made it possible for the shooter in Las Vegas to mow down hundreds of innocent people, and he still had thousands more rounds of ammunition. If semiautomatic weapons are to continue to be sold, they should be manufactured in a way that prevents their conversion to automatic firing mode. There should be stricter limits on the size of magazines for assault rifles and limits on purchases of huge ammunition stores for these weapons of war. A background check did not stop this killer, but tighter background checks can keep war weapons out of the hands of those who are known to be mentally unstable.For years under both Republican and Democratic administrations, Congress has been afraid to do anything about regulating guns, even those that are designed for mass shootings. What will it take to get some legislative action? A shooting of 1000? 5000? Such mega-horror scenes are now clearly feasible. Continued acceptance of the status quo is unacceptable. Congressional legislation to promote greater health and safety for the American public is possible.5,6 Our current political leadership is apparently not willing to promote gun-violence prevention of any kind. And yet no one in America wants more mass shootings.
A public consensus can have an effect, even against the will of the leadership.

Or maybe it's the CDC that is "ignorant"?

Gun violence is an American public health crisis decades in the making. The latest Centers for DiseaseControl and Prevention (CDC) data show that 39,707 people, 86% of whom were male, lost their lives togun violence in 2019. It was the third consecutive year of nearly 40,000 gun deaths, and part of a threeyear cluster with a higher gun death rate than any other time in the last two decades. Further, almost onein ten (3,390) gun deaths in 2019 were children and teens, the second-highest number of annual childand teen gun deaths in twenty years. In 2019, firearms were the leading cause of death for Americanchildren, teens, and young adults ages 1 to 24.

Or maybe it's the American Academy of Pediatrics?

Injuries and death

• 4,500 children under 21 died from firearm violence in 2015.
• 20,000 children present to EDs for firearm-related injuries annually.
• 90% of those ED visits are by children ages 12-19.
• Firearm injuries are more likely to be accidental for younger children and intentional among older children.
• Among adolescents ages 15-19, homicide by firearms is the second leading cause of death and suicide by firearms is the third leading cause.

Access

• Roughly 18% to 64% of homes have firearms, varying by location.
• 39% of parents erroneously believe their children do not know where their gun is stored, and 22% wrongly believe their child never handled their gun.
• In 2011, about 5% of high school students recently carried a gun.
• 65% of high school seniors had a gun in their household.

Or maybe it's Education Week?

In 2021, based on data collected by Education Week, there were 35 school shootings—a record high since we began tracking school shootings in 2018. Most of the incidents—25—have occurred since August, when schools reopened for in-person schooling on a wide scale. It’s an alarming pace of gun violence.

So yes, thousands of children are being killed by guns every year. Tens of thousands of suicides happen by gun. Automatic and semi-automatic weapons make it possible for a single shooter to rack up kill scores in the double digits.

But treating guns like the public health emergency they are, and controlling them the way we control other dangerous things, might make the poor old gun owners scared that someone's going to take their fun away. So anyone who still thinks taking action to control guns is "ignorant" and "pandering" to some "pipe dream."

So rather than make those poor old right-wing gun owners mad at us, let's just let thousands of children be murdered with guns every year. Because if we pass laws that might prevent it, someone somewhere might lose an election. And we can't have that. We mustn't risk "deepening our cultural divide" even if the alternative is letting thousands of children be murdered every year.

I'm sure their friends and families would rather everyone just get along and not have any "divides"--so let's sweep the elephant under the rug. Again. And pretend that there's nothing that can be done.

After all, only 58 people were killed in Vegas. Fewer than that at Sandy Hook. It's a small price to pay so we don't "deepen the cultural divide" and drive those poor gun owners deeper into the Republican party than they already are.

Tom

[John Smith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

The fact you don’t seem to know that a background check is done for every license issued, even for one that allows hunting rifles, says almost as much as not knowing what an SKS is. That would be like someone saying “I’m a car guy. What this “Fiat” that you’re talking about?”




Also FYI, the machine guns? The owners still have them. The change in law just meant they weren’t allowed to transport them to a range.

Not sure if background checks are all that important. Might help some, but, as I've said many times the person who buys that gun will not live forever. The gun he buys will live on for generations who will inherit the gun.

[John Smith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

If someone wants to harm a large group of people there are many ways they could do it. I am not convinced restricting certain types of guns is the answer. Identifying potentially violent mentally ill people and treating them and or restricting their access to guns seems like it would be more productive. The vast majority of owners of all types of guns are law abiding citizens.


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If one guy with a gun cannot shoot bullets as rapidly as he used to, it would help in the cases of multiple victims.

[CWSmith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

All I can think of is Tim Turner (Home Improvement) and his constant need for more power, but for no practical reason.

Taylor.