Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

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  • brucemoffatt
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2012
    • 8495

    #31
    John, to your initial post I would just state the implied requirement to carry potable water or some type of water maker. 50 litres or so if carrying it gives theoretically a solo cruising sailor a couple of weeks max between water supplies, allowing for the almost inevitable stranding due to poor weather.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.

    Comment

    • Andrew2
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2013
      • 2905

      #32
      Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

      Small cabin for me, with enough room for two 6ft+ berths and sitting headroom. Shallow keel with enough ballast (400lb) to self right, so no c/board case in the cabin or cockpit, which is self draining.
      Single burner gimbled camp stove for soup/tea on the move and a double burner stashed in a locker for more elaborate meals (I like cooking ) Room for a porta-potty under the bridge deck.
      Cat yawl rig and a little o/board for windless times. Shoulder probs make rowing difficult, except for short distances.
      I am not fond of tents, but might have a tarp to rig over the cockpit to extend space in wet weather.
      Boat is 17ft plus an inch or so and will weigh in at 8/900lbs.
      Since I like the occasional day sail and the boat will live at home, the trailer will use a dolly to launch, keeping the road wheels out of the sea water and the car well up the slip. I expect sub 30 min launch & rig time.

      Right now, planking her up. Ply on stringers, single chine. Hope to get some use this summer, but can be used all year with the cabin.

      Local friend went the boom tent route, after one season, he now has a small cabin on his 15ft gaffer. Space for one only, or two small limber close friends.

      A2

      Comment

      • PeterSibley
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2001
        • 70993

        #33
        Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

        In retrospect I wish I'd built Paul Fisher's Kittiwake rather than his JIM. Both a good boats but Kittiwake would have extended my use and range.

        22 feet against 18'6''. http://www.selway-fisher.com/Yacht2024.htm#KITT

        '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
        Grateful Dead

        Comment

        • John hartmann
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2012
          • 1752

          #34
          Waxwing's arrangements are squarely in the sail&oar camp. Boomtent much like Haverchuck and Firedrake, ensolite pads beneath thermarest on the cockpit sole. Kitchen boxes stowed beneath forward thwarts, loo bucket/wag bags and dunnage in dry bags lashed on the foredeck. Longest trip so far has been a week, but only because of work schedule constraints. I am looking forward to the chance to make longer trips in her.








          Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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          • Daniel Noyes
            Banned
            • Jan 2007
            • 8532

            #35
            Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

            20' tabernackeld mast, gaff rigged, bucket with saw dust and a tight lid, a small stove and a roof to keep the sleeping area dry will be essential if I am to extend my cruising in New England to 3 seasons... also a historic design with local fishing and record making history is only a bonus.

            sailing area from tiny marsh creeks and back waters and low bridges, to the mighty Merrimack River, to Cape Anne- Rockport- Gloucester- Marblehead- Salem- Swampscott and beyond.

            Comment

            • WI-Tom
              Seaside Expat
              • Jan 2009
              • 15902

              #36
              Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

              Originally posted by AJZimm
              For sitting aft when the tent is up, I have about 1050 mm clearance from sole to tent, which gives me about 250 mm headroom while sitting. This gives enough space for lounging, reading and cooking on my one-burner stove.
              Alex,

              this sounds extremely painful and potentially dangerous! I suggest changing your reading and cooking routine to include an Oxford comma and avoid nasty burns.

              Tom
              Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

              www.tompamperin.com

              Comment

              • AJZimm
                Seasoned
                • Sep 2008
                • 2122

                #37
                Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

                Originally posted by WI-Tom
                Alex,

                this sounds extremely painful and potentially dangerous! I suggest changing your reading and cooking routine to include an Oxford comma and avoid nasty burns.

                Tom
                Shades of "eats, shoots and leaves"
                but on the other hand, it can get pretty chilly some nights . . .
                Alex

                “No matter how bad things may seem, you can always make them worse.” - Robert "Hoot" Gibson, Astronaut

                http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

                Comment

                • Mike.Higgins.94301
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2015
                  • 641

                  #38
                  Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

                  John has raised a question that many of us asked ourselves before we started to build our boats. I had the additional constraint of a small building space. My solution was to build a 14' catboat. I often point out that the outside dimensions of my boat match the inside dimensions of my shop.

                  [IMG][/IMG]

                  The small cabin provides sitting headroom and contains a comfortable 7 foot bunk with a thick foam mattress. There is plenty of storage and a homey feel that makes this one of my favorite places to sleep. I appreciate the flexible approach that builders of open boats have taken. A boom tent can provide a lot of space. However, I would not look forward to rolling out a sleeping bag, in a wet cockpit, after a raining day of sailing. I filled the space between the planks and ceilings with foam. The result is a warm and dry sleeping space, even on damp, cold evenings.

                  [IMG][/IMG]

                  My solution to the cooking problem is a cook box I use in the cockpit. I cannot imagine having an open flame in a cabin as small as mine. Besides, the cockpit often provides a beautiful setting for preparing and eating a meal.


                  [IMG][/IMG]

                  When it does rain, I do have a boom tent.


                  [IMG][/IMG]


                  The resulting boat more or less meets John's criteria. The "less" part is how long I can last, living on my boat. My longest trip so far included five nights of sleeping on board. Comfort was fine for that trip. However, I am not sure that I would last a full month on board.
                  Last edited by Mike.Higgins.94301; 04-20-2017, 09:34 AM. Reason: Changed "now" to "how" in last paragraph and "setting" to "sitting"

                  Comment

                  • Woxbox
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 9923

                    #39
                    Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

                    I'm with Mike any everyone else who sees the need for a snug, dry cabin if the cruise is running up to a month. For a long weekend to a week, something less might suit. And Mike, that catboat looks about perfect. What design is it?
                    -Dave

                    Comment

                    • Mike.Higgins.94301
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2015
                      • 641

                      #40
                      Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

                      Thanks Dave.

                      I started with the design for Bolger's Bobcat, but scaled up that perfect little boat to a 14 foot length and an 8 foot beam. I also wanted tumblehome on the bow so I had to change the forward hull sections. The cockpit and cabin are my own design, mostly dictated by the real constraints of a small boat and personal whim. For example, the offset hatch was required by the position of the centerboard trunk in the center of the cabin. The curved coaming profile just looked better to me than a more traditional straight coaming profile. The sail shown in these photos was based on the sail plan of the Breck Marshall (the catboat in the Mystic collection), except my sail's foot is aligned with the first set of reef points for that East Coast boat (I mostly sail on San Francisco Bay.

                      [IMG][/IMG]

                      Are you a catboat sailor?

                      Comment

                      • Woxbox
                        Senior Member
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 9923

                        #41
                        I'm not a catboat guy, but have been thinking about them quite a bit lately. They do satisfy a lot of needs.
                        -Dave

                        Comment

                        • epoxyboy
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2005
                          • 6223

                          #42
                          Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

                          Thinking back to my cabin Pathfinder experience:
                          The hard shelter was good, as we (two of us) could leave sleeping mats etc set up semi permanently, and still have sitting headroom, and a warm dry place to suffer through a couple of days of awful weather.
                          It also made for a fantastically comfortable, sheltered spot either side of the cockpit, leaning back against the aft cabin bulkhead. The nasty was the condensation at night, even with the companionway wide open, the inside would be dripping wet some mornings.
                          A tarp boomtent just wouldn't cut it for me (we tried, it sucked). A good Howard Rice grade tent, designed specifically for the boat, would be an OK substitute for a cabin for me. Especially if mated up to a Scamp style hard dodger/cuddy

                          I'd rate a self draining cockpit - we woke up one morning to a stern down boat, and water almost up to the seat tops - how many hundred litres in a PF cockpit footwell JW? To be fair, the rain was like nothing I have ever seen before or since, but damn, that took a while to bucket and pump out.

                          I set up one of the washboards so it could clip down horizontally along the top of the centercase just inside the cabin, as a table/seat. This worked really well for everything except the cooker.

                          We had a small gas cooker, using it on the boat gave me the willies - outboard petrol at the back of the cockpit, sleeping bags forward, and smooth seat tops in between. I'd definitely want some way to locate a cooker more securely - that was on my to-do list.

                          A boat that small, the facilities are going to be a portapotti at best. We popped into the campgrounds dotted around the Sounds, but I guess the cabin and bucket was always an option :-/

                          Depending on trip duration/location, and boat size, a modest solar setup would provide a few options. I'm thinking a 15W panel and motorcycle size gel cell, with a USB charge point in the regulator. We went the 30W panel/cheap car battery/ 300W inverter route in our caravan last summer, which kept up with a laptop, phones, ipad and lighting.

                          Pete
                          The Ignore feature, lowering blood pressure since 1862. Ahhhhhhh.

                          Comment

                          • Craic
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 301

                            #43
                            Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

                            On my small cabin expedition boat I have replaced the usual flat foam mattress with a "XL" (man-size) outdoor "bean bag", filled with styrofoam pellets. Advantage is that the bag is comfy to sleep on regardless of heel of boat, the bag levels the available space and small protrusions, and the bag can be puffed into any shape so one can sit in it as well in a low cabin. The styrofoam pellets do not sponge up water like many foam mattresses, and they are very lightweight. Side bonus of such a bag inside the cabin is the permanent buoyancy it does provide should the boat be in danger of sinking.
                            Last edited by Craic; 04-20-2017, 02:42 PM.

                            Comment

                            • john welsford
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 7755

                              #44
                              Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

                              Originally posted by epoxyboy
                              Thinking back to my cabin Pathfinder experience:
                              The hard shelter was good, as we (two of us) could leave sleeping mats etc set up semi permanently, and still have sitting headroom, and a warm dry place to suffer through a couple of days of awful weather.
                              It also made for a fantastically comfortable, sheltered spot either side of the cockpit, leaning back against the aft cabin bulkhead. The nasty was the condensation at night, even with the companionway wide open, the inside would be dripping wet some mornings.
                              A tarp boomtent just wouldn't cut it for me (we tried, it sucked). A good Howard Rice grade tent, designed specifically for the boat, would be an OK substitute for a cabin for me. Especially if mated up to a Scamp style hard dodger/cuddy

                              I'd rate a self draining cockpit - we woke up one morning to a stern down boat, and water almost up to the seat tops - how many hundred litres in a PF cockpit footwell JW? To be fair, the rain was like nothing I have ever seen before or since, but damn, that took a while to bucket and pump out.

                              I set up one of the washboards so it could clip down horizontally along the top of the centercase just inside the cabin, as a table/seat. This worked really well for everything except the cooker.

                              We had a small gas cooker, using it on the boat gave me the willies - outboard petrol at the back of the cockpit, sleeping bags forward, and smooth seat tops in between. I'd definitely want some way to locate a cooker more securely - that was on my to-do list.

                              A boat that small, the facilities are going to be a portapotti at best. We popped into the campgrounds dotted around the Sounds, but I guess the cabin and bucket was always an option :-/

                              Depending on trip duration/location, and boat size, a modest solar setup would provide a few options. I'm thinking a 15W panel and motorcycle size gel cell, with a USB charge point in the regulator. We went the 30W panel/cheap car battery/ 300W inverter route in our caravan last summer, which kept up with a laptop, phones, ipad and lighting.

                              Pete
                              At a wild guess somewhere over 200 litres Pete, thats just the cockpit footwell, and yes I'd expect it to take more than a couple of minutes to bucket out.
                              One of the issues with designing in a self draining cockpit is, that given a reasonable seat height for comfort, and backrests of a reasonable height and angle, the boat then needs higher sides which means more weight and windage up high, which means lower stability and more ballast required which makes the boat heavier and slower and so on. No one thing can be changed in isolation.
                              All that said, SCAMP has a self draining cockpit, just, its only a tiny bit above the static waterline but it does work. Long Steps has more, and both drain into collection areas where a venturi or a pump can deal with it.

                              On the electrical thing, there are now little hand sized batteries sold as emergency start batteries for cars, that have USB charger points as well as 12 volt connections that can be used to run computers and recharge phones. I'm thinking that they might be a good trick for small boat cruising, I get tired of carrying a big car battery around.

                              John Welsford
                              An expert is but a beginner with experience.

                              Comment

                              • PeterSibley
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2001
                                • 70993

                                #45
                                Re: Minimum comforts in small boat accommodation.

                                There are some good ideas here John from bicycle tourists. https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?doc_id=9258
                                '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
                                Grateful Dead

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