Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

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  • tillergirl
    Senior Member
    • May 2013
    • 118

    #46
    Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    I apologise to trespassing from the thread about the removal of the bilge keels to here but Simon, your comments make me think 'Tiller Girl's bilge keels were bilge runners not keels like the Finesse - the Leigh-on-Sea style. I am certain now that the retro fitting of the bilge keels were 'not well designed nor fitted'. So, ok, the bilge keels are bansihed.

    But the difficulty is that with the bilge runners and the bilge keels, there have been 16 holes drilled though the length of the same plank port and starboard. The holes are now all dowelled and glued; the seams next to be addressed but that is just about puttying. I have two new iroko planks to go over those veteran planks to provide insurance. I would prefer the lines of her hull to be unblemished or it is better to have the insurance of the new planks as a sort of bilge runner/sand clog.

    I had thought there was some sense to renew the veteran planks but that would require the stringers removing which would require some significant difficulties at the bulkheads. Holes and dowelled apart the veteran planks are very sound. Nick's comment about the 'plank over rot issue' is another worry - the original bilge runners were not through ribs so were well positioned; the retro bilge keels were the vandals.

    Decisions, decisions.

    Comment

    • jstarboats
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2011
      • 1416

      #47
      Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

      Hi Tillergirl,

      Now that you have sorted out the old planks and you sistered up the ribs, there is know reason not to put bilge runners back on. As for the rot problem, this will only be a problem if the bilge runner sand clog is not sealed correctly, i.e. lots of primer on the back surface and any where that can not painted once they are fitted in position and large amounts of sealant in between the bearing surfaces. and a good amount of fixings to make sure they stay in position.

      If you send me photos of the job it would be helpful to see what you are doing in refitting these bilge runners.

      Regards

      Simon J-Star

      Comment

      • tillergirl
        Senior Member
        • May 2013
        • 118

        #48
        Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

        Simon, thanks. I will supply images but I regret my broadband isn't working at all at the moment. It is reported but they have said it will be 72hrs and it is only 24hrs at the moment. It takes about 4 minutes to open up the website and another 4 minutes to open the thread at the moment - if it opens.

        I better use clear terms. When I started this winter I have retro bilge keels. They were steel and the upper flange sandwiched an external timber 'runner' which ran to 2m to extend where the original bilge keels had been fitted. I think the 'runner' has done two roles: a backing timber for the retro bilge keels and insurance over where the pretty suspect doweling would have been otherwise exposed. The timber 'runner' was each screwed with 1.5" x 10s and one 2" x 12. The #12 went right through the plank! Ugh. I am now thinking that the original bilge keels were more likely bilge runners (or Nick's sand clogs). I don't want or need (I think) bilge runners. The issue does the orignal planking required the insurance of a timber runner (disfiguring the lines) over the now repaired planking. I hope I have been clear - and I will add images once the broadband comes back to normal.

        Comment

        • jstarboats
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2011
          • 1416

          #49
          Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

          Hi Tillergirl,

          Unless you replace the planking , the only way to insure there is not chance of the original planking giving way is to cover them with a secondary plank on the outside, only until you can get round to replacing the original plank in the future.

          Regards
          Simon J-Star

          Comment

          • Peerie Maa
            Old Grey Inquisitive One
            • Oct 2008
            • 62453

            #50
            Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

            Originally posted by jstarboats
            Hi Nick,
            The bilge runners on the Finesse are about 2 1/2 inch thick and about 6 inches deep from the hull to the bottom of the widest part and the follow the shape of the bottom. They are through fixed through the land area of the planking so there is a good deal of wood for the bilge runners to spread the loading on the area, Boats and yachts that I have work on over the past 40 years have faired differently depending on the conditions they have had to work under. Most of the time they do their job well. the only draw back being they have to be replace over the years as they get worn out or broken. Either way they have always work well if they have been fitted correctly and with correct strengthen on the inside of the boat to take the loading put upon them during their working lives and the vessel hull is build strong enough for the working conditions in which it is used.

            Simon J-Star
            OK, I think that you are talking about these. Yes?


            I was discussing these
            It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

            The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
            The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

            Comment

            • jstarboats
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2011
              • 1416

              #51
              Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

              Hi Nick,

              That's Correct the ones on Tillergirl's yacht were plate bilge keels which were bolted through the bottom on the turn of the bilge and were never to designed for and the inside of the boat was never beefed up to take the bilge keels in the first place.

              Regards
              Simon J-Star

              Comment

              • Peerie Maa
                Old Grey Inquisitive One
                • Oct 2008
                • 62453

                #52
                Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

                Originally posted by jstarboats
                Hi Nick,

                That's Correct the ones on Tillergirl's yacht were plate bilge keels which were bolted through the bottom on the turn of the bilge and were never to designed for and the inside of the boat was never beefed up to take the bilge keels in the first place.

                Regards
                Simon J-Star
                Don't like them for a sailing hull. Would only consider them if forced to dry out on muscle beds or raggedy rocks. They will be fitted to the motor hulls to stop them leaning over too much and to damp out roll.
                It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

                The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
                The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

                Comment

                • jstarboats
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2011
                  • 1416

                  #53
                  Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

                  Hi Nick,

                  I agree with you that they do not look right on a yacht's hull, however in drying out areas such as the east coast they are a help on the turn of the bilge where the yacht gets the most pounding when it grounds at its mooring or when it goes aground at any of time. As long as the hull was designed and made to have them. I can not see any problem with them being there.

                  Regards
                  Simon J-Star

                  Comment

                  • Peerie Maa
                    Old Grey Inquisitive One
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 62453

                    #54
                    Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

                    Originally posted by jstarboats
                    Hi Nick,

                    I agree with you that they do not look right on a yacht's hull, however in drying out areas such as the east coast they are a help on the turn of the bilge where the yacht gets the most pounding when it grounds at its mooring or when it goes aground at any of time. As long as the hull was designed and made to have them. I can not see any problem with them being there.

                    Regards
                    Simon J-Star
                    Fairy Nuff. horses for courses.

                    I just think that our Lancashire coast solution is more elegant
                    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

                    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
                    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

                    Comment

                    • jstarboats
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2011
                      • 1416

                      #55
                      Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

                      Hi Nick,

                      Yes agree with your viewpoint, every area as its own way of tackle the problem of bilge runners and bilge keels, so what is good for one area will not always be good in another. Having travel round the UK over the past 40 years during my boat building carrier I have come across a lot of difference ways of over coming the problem. all of which fit the area where they are used. So as you put it horses for courses.

                      Regards
                      Simon J-Star

                      Comment

                      • tillergirl
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2013
                        • 118

                        #56
                        Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

                        Finally got in - pesky broadband!

                        I have been trying to convince myself I don't need the 'extra' plank as insurance but your comment, Simon, banishes my nonsense. So Nick, nice though to banish it I fear it makes sense to banish elegance.

                        Now to try to feather it nicely so as nicely as possible.

                        Comment

                        • jstarboats
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 1416

                          #57
                          Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

                          Hi,
                          I do think in the short term putting the extra plank is the way to go. Just have to save the pennies to get the plank re-placed at a later date. Feathering out the ends will make it look better and draw your eye to the reason it is there in the first place and at the end of the day it is doing a useful job of protecting that area of the bilge.

                          Regards
                          Simon J-Star

                          Comment

                          • tillergirl
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2013
                            • 118

                            #58
                            Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

                            And the more I think about replacing that plank, the more I dread. How on earth would it be possible to remove the stringers? It would make a complete strip down of the vessel.

                            Comment

                            • jstarboats
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 1416

                              #59
                              Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

                              The cabin bulkhead is in the worse condition and will need the most work on


                              The aft bulkhead is a lot smaller and should not be as larger job as the front, however, smaller areas can cause their problems



                              One of the first jobs is to remove all the equipment that is the way to gain access to the bulkheads and to the cockpit coamings that have to be removed to be able to remove the old rotten wood.



                              One side is already clear of obstructions



                              While the other side as yet to be started on

                              Side on view



                              A view looking forward a mess of wiring to be removed and labelled up

                              Comment

                              • jstarboats
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2011
                                • 1416

                                #60
                                Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

                                Custom made quadrant to the owner's and boat builder's design





                                First of the long length's of quadrant starting to be screwed down dry fit ready to be fitted with sealant once they are all fitted in position.

                                Comment

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