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Thread: Hartley TS14 Construction

  1. #1
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    Default Hartley TS14 Construction

    I finally got the plans for the Hartley TS14, a 14ft sailboat. The plans took over a month to arrive from New Zealand. I'll use this thread to keep people up to date on my progress and ask questions. Search this forum and you will find other Hartleys. The most popular being the TS16.

    This is my first boat build and I know nothing about sailing, so suggestions and advice are welcome.



    I'm also starting a blog to keep my family up-to-date. Feel free to follow it, as it will be more detailed than this thread.

    http://hartleyts14.blogspot.com/

    So far I've cleaned out my garage and made the strongback frame, as shown in the pic. I got a bunch of scrap 2X3 from my job for free. Not boat quality lumber by any means, but it makes a good strongback I think.



    I'm going to buy lumber this week. Buying lumber has proven confusing, since I don't know much about boat building or lumber. The plans call for 6mm marine ply (9 sheets), 9mm marine ply (2 sheets), and a lot of lumber for the frames, etc. I'm thinking about building the entire boat out of CVG Doug-Fir lumber. Do you think DF would be good or would white oak be a better bet for the frames, keel and stem? The frames are glued and nailed 1x6 (with plywood gussets). The stem is 3 layers of 1x6 lumber (glued and screwed). The keel is two layers of 5/8" thick lumber.
    Last edited by Geary; 08-03-2009 at 11:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Douglas fir, provided it really is df and is decent quality, will be an excellent choice for frames. Plenty strong and glues well. Glued and screwed/nailed plywood over sawn gussetted frames is a method that has produced thousands of strong, long lasting boats, including my own. If you've never sailed you might want to hitch a ride on a similar boat. It will give you a better understanding of what all the parts of a sail boat do and why they are the way they are, which will in turn give you insights about the building process. Its very important that the strong back be very true and strong as a crooked, warped strongback often results in a crooked warped boat. I think you will find the TS14 a well regarded boat with plenty of fans on the forum.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I'm currently looking for someone with a sailboat similar to mine. I'll definitely need to take a ride in one before I get too far along in construction. You can only get so much information from a book or website.

    I spent a whole weekend making the strongback. The peices of scrap I used were straight and everything. I kept adding braces to it to make it level, flat, square, etc. I'll have to double check it before I start ... I definitely don't want a crooked boat. Building the strongback from scrap isn't ideal and took me longer, but it was free! Why? Does my strongback look crooked to you?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Geary View Post
    ... Building the strongback from scrap isn't ideal and took me longer, but it was free!
    Free is my idea of ideal.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Welcome. I really like that design.

    I would take the time to learn how to sail now and you will have a much better understanding of what your boat is intended to do, and this may help guide you in its construction.

    Brian

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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    You ain't done nothin' wrong so far. Keep up the good work.
    Keep It Simple: KISS it better.

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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I wouldn't worry about not knowing how to sail before building a boat. The fact is if you are clever enough to decide you want to build and you are clever enough to finish the boat then you are certainly smart enough to figure out the basics of sailing. Start with calm sunny days with no time pressures and take a friend with some sailing experience and in a couple of days you will know about 90% of what you need to know to sail.The rest can come over time with desire and by reading about advanced topics. I really look forward to watching you build this boat, I think it is one of the more attractive home-built small sailboats. Good luck!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Pssssst.... Use the PL Premium plus glue and you will have a very nice experience and no sticky mess with epoxy and waiting for it to set up and getting rid of the sticky amine blush and waiting for it to dry when it gets cold.
    Comes in caulking tubes at the hardware store which means you can always get more EASILY. AND CHEAP compared to epoxy.

    You will be able to keep working when it is cold too.

    Save the epoxy and cloth just to cover the finished hull.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I am in the process of building a TS-16 and am painting the interior. One thing that I did on mine which turned out to be a lot of work was to epoxy coat all the frames and stringers and the inside of the hull ply on assembly. When it came time to paint I had to sand and clean all that with solvent before primer and paint. If I had to do it again I would sand/seal/primer and paint and not use any epoxy on the interior. I agree that only the exterior of the hull should glassed and epoxy coated. I am using Interlux sealer on all the rest of the boat before primer and paint. Good luck on your build.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Hey Geary. I realized as i was signing off that you are in Portland area also. I live in Milwaukie if you need advice feel free to call me .503-659-1894

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Personally I would have gone for the TS16 but the 14 is a good boat, so good luck with it. The advantage of full size plans makes construction a lot easier and quicker.
    “Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom.”
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    You may have already seen this site but in case not, have a look here, there is an image gallery and a Hartley TS forum:

    http://dsn.au.com/Gallery/GallerySearch.php
    Larks

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I've been cutting the patterns out for the frames and stem. Pretty easy ... just trace the pattern and cut with a jig saw. (I could use some practice with the jig saw though.) The wood is CVG Doug-Fir.





    Next step: make the plywood gussets and start gluing and nailing the frames together.

    I also got the metal shop at my job to make a center plate. I just had to pay for the "scrap" metal. It'll be sitting in the corner of my garage for awhile sadly. It's 5/16" thick and about 85 lbs.



    I was debating among the TS12, TS14 and TS16 for some time. I decided to build the TS14 because it'll store in my garage and I can haul it easily with my tiny car. (I'm sure I'll get funny looks from the SUV crowd still though.) I'm hoping this boat will be big enough for my needs. This was an upgrade from my first choices, the TS12 and various other smaller dinghies. Isn't there some sort of negative correlation between the size of the boat and its frequency of use? I have dreams of building a 20ft+ boat when I near retirement in 30 years, but this boat will do for now. Anyway, lets not get into a design choice discussion, as its too late for me now!

    Question: What glue would you recommend for the plywood hull to the frames? Epoxy? Some sort of glue in a tube? I think epoxy would cure too fast before I could finish nailing/screwing the plywood in place. And I would have to thicken it probably, right? Is PL Premium glue that brown polyurethane glue? Donald, are you suggesting that I can use this for all frame and hull construction?

    Randall, I may want to come by and look at your boat some day soon if you are willing. I'm in SW Portland. When are you going to finish it? One thing that the plans don't specify ... how is the floor attached to the frames? Is it glued and screwed permanently in place? (And therefore the bilge area is not accessible). Is your cockpit sealed and self draining?

    -Ryan

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I would not use any glue except West System epoxy thickened with colodial (sp?) silica. They invented the stuff & it is well proven. I never nail anything together. Use "drywall" screws & remove them next day. Then throw them away, do not re-use them. Always remove them next day, you don't want to break them trying to get them out. Then fill the holes with glue. If you must leave screws in, use stainless screws, well countersunk so you can fill over the heads. Use only square drive screws: Phillips, Posi etc. are no where near as good. You have chosen an excellent first project. Take your time, work carefully, think ahead, ask lots of questions. As Elsewhere said, "The only dumb question is the one you didn't ask"
    Keep It Simple: KISS it better.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I spent a whole weekend making the strong back. The peices of scrap I used were straight and everything. I kept adding braces to it to make it level, flat, square, etc.
    Check for "twist" from end to end in your strong back too. Don't rely on your level for this.

    Get the CB plate galvanized.

    And have fun building;it's almost as satisfying as sailing
    Last edited by gert; 07-20-2009 at 06:29 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction



    Geary
    The project is looking good.

    May I offer a little advice on the centreboard. The slot in the board that slips over the pivot pin can also be a source of grief if you ground the board while sailing. The board can move up and back off the pin. This allows the board to drop until the shackle and lifting block come down on the top of the centreboard case. It can then jam in this position.

    To prevent this happening, most Hartley owners either weld a piece of steel rod across the "mouth" of the slot or replace the slot with a boss with a hole drilled to take the pivot pin.

    It is a little more fiddly to line the hole in the centreboard with the holes in the centreboard logs and to insert the pivot pin. I would rather do this on land that try to get the centreboard back on the pivot pin while the boat is in the water and being affected by waves etc.

    As Gert said
    Get the CB plate galvanized.
    My 2c worth.

    Jim
    Last edited by JimJ; 07-20-2009 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Add quote

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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    The WEST System 206 Hardener is slower acting, especially in cool weather, and should give you time to fasten the hull components. Never used collodial silica, but some sort of thickener/filler is desirable to keep the epoxy from obeying gravity's call.

    I sailed a Hartley 14 on Lyttelton Harbour in NZ and loved the thing. Very pleasant and trustworthy craft. I saw several Hartley TS14s there and noted two common ills: a) leaks around the centreboard case and b) poor drainage through the bungs (which I particularly noticed because my boat leaked about a gallon per hour around the centreboard case).

    Some extra attention to the case as far as increasing the rigidity and resistance to flexing might be a good thing. One factor with my boat was that it had been moored in a tidal bay and thus plopped in the muck twice a day. Which tends to force mud up into the case, etc, etc.

    Smalser's Hartley 14 is a beautiful example: I'd look at his photos for inspiration on a regular basis.

    Good to have a dog on the job! White vinegar dissolves uncured epoxy on fur, hands, etc.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Yes! Use West! Hit small sections of the faying surfaces with a heat gun FIRST and apply unthickened epoxy over each surface as you heat each section. Then thicken the remaining epoxy using West's microfibre so that you have a consistency somewhere between mayonnaise and soft peanut butter. Slather this over one of the faying surfaces about to be joined and clamp the two pieces together. This will ensure that the grain of the timber sucks up epoxy and (A) preserves the timber against water ingress at the join and (B) increases the mechanical glue join by 'hooking' into the grain of each piece to be glued.

    If you can avoid using through fastenings that with be removed after you've glued, avoid them. If you use fastenings that will remain, coat their thread and shank with epoxy and screw them in. Clamp until you get a good squeeze out, but don't clamp so hard you starve the join of glue. If you have to unclamp and start again re-spread the epoxy so that you ensure that the join has adequate glue once again.

    Don't use microsphere to join surfaces as this mixed with epoxy produces a filleting or fairing compound.

    If you have any timber that will get wet and may have trouble drying out again (bilges, etc...), hit it with the heat gun and unthickened epoxy in small sections (150 x 150mm) at a time.

    Hope this helps!
    “For masterpieces are not single and solitary births; they are the outcome of many years of thinking in common, of thinking by the body of the people, so that the experience of the mass is behind the single voice.” Virginia Woolf, A Room of One's Own

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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by JimJ View Post

    Geary
    The project is looking good.

    May I offer a little advice on the centreboard. The slot in the board that slips over the pivot pin can also be a source of grief if you ground the board while sailing. The board can move up and back off the pin. This allows the board to drop until the shackle and lifting block come down on the top of the centreboard case. It can then jam in this position.

    To prevent this happening, most Hartley owners either weld a piece of steel rod across the "mouth" of the slot or replace the slot with a boss with a hole drilled to take the pivot pin.

    It is a little more fiddly to line the hole in the centreboard with the holes in the centreboard logs and to insert the pivot pin. I would rather do this on land that try to get the centreboard back on the pivot pin while the boat is in the water and being affected by waves etc.

    As Gert said


    My 2c worth.

    Jim

    I know this is a little way off for you but I agree with Jim on this and the CB on my 45 year old TS16 has the slot closed in just like that, worth doing before you galvanise it, likewise with the hole for your CB raising line.

    Also, for what it's worth for future reference, I have set up my CB pin so that it is reasonably easily removed instead of the bolt arrangement that mine had with a lot of sikaflex sealing it in place.

    You could probably find some better fittings than what I have used (ie maybe all 316 stainless) as these are just plumbing fittings, but they suit my purposes for the moment, a couple of end caps and some threaded tube with flanges soldered to them. The idea is that the flanges are screwed to the CB case and the whole lot is bedded in sikaflex anyway but it means that the finish inside the cabin is whole lot neater, the CB can be removed any time I like by simply unscrewing the end caps instead of having to unbed and re-bed bolts in sikaflex and the pins sits nicely in the threaded tube.

    I got the idea from a combination of ideas on this thread:

    http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83366

    which may give you some better ideas than my own.



    Larks

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I would not use any glue except West System epoxy thickened with colodial (sp?) silica.

    It appears I have been using the wrong term all these years For that I apologize. Thanks for straightening me guys. Maybe I should have used the product number, but I keep forgetting that too! Is it 105? You know, that white fluffy stuff in the big brown sack up on the mezzanine. Maybe I've been sniffing these resins for too long "Microfibres". Maybe I can remember "Microfibres". (No. That is the right spelling). "Another glass of red wine Graeme?" "Why thank you Graeme, I think I might." Cheers!
    Last edited by Candyfloss; 07-21-2009 at 12:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    So the only two galvanizes in my area have a $200 minimum charge. Since I only paid $25 for the steel CB plate, it may not be worth it to galvanize. Is there any other options that I can do myself? Maybe rough it up and coat it in epoxy then paint? (Epoxy does EVERYTHING, right?) Or just paint it?

    The boat will be in fresh water (or on the trailer) almost exclusively, at least for the first few years of its life. To slow rusting near the pin, I was thinking I could put a non-metallic bushing over the pin to prevent metal-to-metal contact.

    Or should I just upgrade to a stainless steel or aluminum plate?

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    A stainless plate would likely cost as much as galvanizing the one you have. Aluminum won't be heavy enough. The plate provides significant ballast and you'll need it. Powder coating might be better than liquid paint depending on the cost or just paint the one you have and see how it goes. You can always have a new one fabricated in stainless a few years down the road if (when) you have to.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Hmm, yes, aluminum would have to be about 7/8" thick to be the same weight as 5/16" steel, that won't work. Stainless is too expensive for me.

    Some people are recommending coating the steel plate with epoxy plus carbon graphite powder (West system #423). It's a slippery black finish and is abrasion resistant (supposedly more so than powder coating) ... and no need to paint it. I think I might try that, since its cheap.

    The following link says that stainless steel is the best material for a CB plate obviously, but recommends mild steel coated with this epoxy mixture as an economical alternative. You just have to come up with some sort of bushing for the pin to prevent rusting there.
    http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/23..._tips/b01.html

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Geary View Post
    ...
    Some people are recommending coating the steel plate with epoxy plus carbon graphite powder...
    Sounds good.

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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Remember that you'll also be spending over $400 in tackle for the rig down the line. IMHO 'tis best to hot dip galvanise prior to any kind of paint finish. $200 sounds way too steep. You're not in any hurry for this so ring around, a bit further afield and I'm sure you'll find someone who will charge a far more reasonable amount.
    “For masterpieces are not single and solitary births; they are the outcome of many years of thinking in common, of thinking by the body of the people, so that the experience of the mass is behind the single voice.” Virginia Woolf, A Room of One's Own

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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Don't bother painting or epoxing the CB, the water gets under and does the deed anyways. (been there done that) I galvanized mine 6 years ago, they charged by the pound, no minimum. Find some one who sends stuff out for plating regular and ask them to send your board along; it's not like you need it to-morrow
    Or any trailer mfg in you area? your gonna need one of those too; make it part of the deal.
    Last edited by gert; 07-26-2009 at 09:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    In the building of my TS-16 i decided it was best to allow for removal of the centerboard trunk for future maintenace so I secure the floor frame work with screws only. It also would make painting of the bilge much easier. I have been building on this boat for six years only working a little at a time. Since starting on this I have moved once and built 3 kayaks and have had to do extensive remodeling to the house I am in . I hope to have her in the water this time next year. Just keep pluggin along.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Geary View Post
    So the only two galvanizes in my area have a $200 minimum charge. Since I only paid $25 for the steel CB plate, it may not be worth it to galvanize. Is there any other options that I can do myself? Maybe rough it up and coat it in epoxy then paint? (Epoxy does EVERYTHING, right?) Or just paint it?

    The boat will be in fresh water (or on the trailer) almost exclusively, at least for the first few years of its life. To slow rusting near the pin, I was thinking I could put a non-metallic bushing over the pin to prevent metal-to-metal contact.

    Or should I just upgrade to a stainless steel or aluminum plate?
    Paint it with international PA-10 or whatever your local product is. Galvanising is not neccessary at all. Most of the time your boat will be out of the water. In fact for boats that spend their life on a mooring, paint is the only long term option. Galvanising would be convenient and shouldnt cost no more than a dollar a kilo (nzd) if you decide to do it.

    dont sweat the small stuff, its a classic building mistake! It s very easy to get anally retentive over minor details, I should know! My suggestion is to review the advice, make a reasonably rapid informed decision and move on. Otherwise the building process will become bogged down with trying to do it right. As you can probably gather there are no end of experts here, some of whom have even built a boat . So what if you make a balls up? its a learning process and on a boat like this the cost will be mostly time.
    Last edited by Paul G.; 07-26-2009 at 01:53 PM.
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    ... Galvanising is not neccessary at all. ...Galvanising would be convenient and shouldnt cost no more than a dollar a kilo (nzd) if you decide to do it. ...
    Hmmm ... $NZ per kilo ... I don't feel like trying to figure out how to convert that to $US per pound! But it sounds like $US 200 is too much for 80 lbs of steel. I'm not going to galvanize the plate ... (unless I find a cheap galvanizer). I'll post details about my center plate installation when I do it.

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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    When I had my plate galvanized several years ago the cost was $75 because that was the minimum charge. As noted, the cost per pound or per kilo isn't the issue. Its the minimum charge for a small job that hurts.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction



    The frames/ribs are almost done. They are looking pretty good. But no matter how many times I check my measurements, pieces that are supposed to be square aren't quite square, one or two of the frames aren't quite symmetric, etc. I'm kinda a perfectionist, so maybe my standards are too high. I guess I better get good at hiding my mistakes.

    I made a slight design change (copying Bob Smalser's TS14). I made the top of the transom slightly rounded instead of flat, since this boat is not going to have the full width motor well shown in the plans. (It'll have a smaller well on one side of the rudder).

    Haha ... I wasn't sure if I was going to coat the inside of the hull with epoxy, but by the time I finish building it, the inside will be almost completely coated already. What a sticky mess! I'm learning how to mix epoxy though. I didn't add enough thickeners to the epoxy for the first frame and it dripped out a little. I learned that if the epoxy sags in the pot, then its too thin to use as glue and it will sag and drip out of the joint once it's applied. So a mayonaise (non-sagging) consistency is good.

    The hand drawn Hartley plans don't make sense sometimes. For example, the plans say to put gussets on both sides of the bulkhead frame. But then the gussets would be in the way for the plywood bulkhead installation later. Conveniently, the plan view that shows the bulkhead installation doesn't show the gussets that are in the way. So I didn't follow the plans and put gussets on just one side of that frame.

    Patience, I'll have something resembling an upside-down boat soon!

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Yes it is true that not everything is shown on the plans. On my TS-16 plan it actually does show only one side needing gussets at the bulkhead frame. When it came time for framing in for the floor I had to add supports for the flooring not shown on the plans.Sometimes there is some head scratching but it all works out in the end. When it comes time to bevel the stem and keelson I would use a power plane for the most part and finish with a hand plane. its a real time saver. An alternative to using thickend epoxy on the structural components such as stringers to frame and plywood to stringers is to use T-88 epoxy or Gel Magic from Systems Three. It mixes up thick and has a longer working time than general purpose epoxy(depending on the tempature)

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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Dedrickson View Post
    ... On my TS-16 plan it actually does show only one side needing gussets at the bulkhead frame. ...
    Interesting. I wonder if my TS14 plans have more mistakes because the TS14 isn't as popular as the TS16.

    How are you planning on attaching the plywood floor to the frames? Is it supposed to be removable? Is it supposed to be water tight? I suppose it should be water tight if the cockpit is self-draining. I haven't figured out if my cockpit can be self-draining ... my guess would be no. But I have seen a lot of self-draining TS16 cockpits online.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I have seen a TS 16 with the some of the floors/decks sealed in to provide a buoyancy cell underneath as well as another with them screwed down but removable with a stack of milk bottles shoved underneath to again provide a buoyancy cell.

    Personally I don't like those ideas and at best think them to be a bit of a waste of effort and potential for water to sit and cause problems unless you know your centreboard case and pin are well sealed. I am replacing by cabin floor/deck framing but they were mostly the longitudinal frames just slotted into blocks in the frames, which I'm also now replacing. The deck panels themselves were just sitting on top and I never had any great problems with them moving and it makes it easier to lift them to hose out after a sail. When I replace them I may screw some down with a few decent access hatches to check for water and to still be able to hose out.

    Here's an old photo that shows the slots for the longitudinals:

    Larks

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I have finished the frames and attached them to the strongback. In another thread on this forum, I read that the TS-16 plans say to fill the nooks in between the gussets on the frames. The TS-14 plans don't say this, but I think its a good idea to prevent standing water and rot. I generously epoxied some wedges of wood into these nooks before putting the frames on the strongback.



    Also shown in the photo is the frame of a used boat trailer that I just started restoring. I'm in the process of stripping off the old paint. I found some rust, but not bad at all. I'm toying with the idea of getting the trailer galvanized (along with the boat's steel centerplate), but priming and painting may be adequate, since the frame is open C-channel construction.

    Here is a pic from last week before I took it apart. It's a 1972 Gator Trailer, (a tilting trailer for a 14-16 ft boat, unknown weight capacity). It needs a lot of work (new axle, tires, lights, etc) due to age and neglect but I really like the tilting frame and roller/bunk arrangement. That steel walking platform is a nice feature too.




    Last edited by Geary; 08-12-2009 at 03:40 PM.

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Great stuff Geary. I still think hot dipped galvanising is the way to go and now you've got the trailer you may well get a nice price and get both CB and trailer done at the same time. It's exactly the same principle at work as you epoxying in small wedges between gussets on the frames: preservation and reduced maintenance.

    Just one suggestion: You may wish to resize your images slightly as they don't show when posted on the forum. I just get a "?" and I have to open them in another window/tab, but other people may be more lazy than I.

    Anyhoo, nice stuff mate!
    “For masterpieces are not single and solitary births; they are the outcome of many years of thinking in common, of thinking by the body of the people, so that the experience of the mass is behind the single voice.” Virginia Woolf, A Room of One's Own

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  37. #37
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I must be one of them, I can only see X. Geary, if you can get the trailor and centrboard galvanized at the same time I'd certainly advocate it as well. I can't see the trailor photo but if you strip it right back to a bare frame you may find the same guys that will galv it may sand or shot blast it for you before hand which will save you some labour stripping rust.
    Larks

    "Be who you are and say what you feel...
    Because those that matter...don't mind...
    And those that mind.... don't matter."

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  38. #38
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Geary
    Good luck with this! My father had a TS 16 a long time ago and we had plenty of fun in it. I had a look at your blog and noted that your centreboard was bent and you had to straighten it. My next door neighbour has a little 18' trailer sailer (I think it's called a Sou'wester or something like that - it's called C'est la Vie - you might know it Greg - it came down from Darwin (should be called a Sou'easter ) and we discovered the CB was bent. We ended up putting it over the kerb of the road, driving his tool-laden van onto it and both of us jumped up and down on the van's rear bumper bar to get the thing straight - it worked! Anyway, the point is, somehow they do bend and they do hit things so DON'T cover it with epoxy as it will rust under the epoxy as the epoxy cracks. Galvanise if you can but otherwise, just install it so it's easy to remove and paint it each year. Rick

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Geary, I have often heard of people waiting long periods for plan sets ordered from Hartley & Brookes Associates, well after much procrastination I ordered a set of building plans for the Hartley 24 (same as WX), on the 09 August. Lets hope they they don't take as long to get here as I did on making a decision. Phill

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Your pics come up fine on my laptop.
    Good work mate.
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  41. #41
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Geary- back to your CB for a sec. You can get cold galvanizing compound in spray cans (common) or regular paint cans (less common) at any good industrial supply house. We regularly use it on transmission towers in coastal environments to protect bare metal and repair hot-dip galvanizing. If you are interested, pm me and i will give you brand names, pricing and suppliers.
    Bill R

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  42. #42
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Soverignisle View Post
    Geary, I have often heard of people waiting long periods for plan sets ordered from Hartley ....
    Phill
    It took almost 5 weeks to receive my plans. I imagine it'll be about the same for you. Maybe earlier if you are lucky. About the time I gave up all hope, the plans came in the mail. I was about to order another set from a US company that illegitimately sells Hartley plans, (but they offer better support and quicker shipping).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill R View Post
    You can get cold galvanizing compound in spray cans (common) or regular paint cans (less common) at any good industrial supply house. ...
    Thanks for the tip. I'm also looking into Zinc rich epoxy primer and other Zinc primers for metal. (Zinc ... same ingredient as the galvanized coating). I think maybe the metal primers would be more abrasion resistant and a better base coat than the galvanized spray. Unfortunately, its an uncommon industrial paint, so I have to special order it from the neighborhood paint store.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Hey everyone. I'm still working on the boat. I didn't give up, I just had a slight delay ... I had to study for a professional exam for a few months. But I'm back spending the majority of my free time working on the boat.

    I installed the keelson and the stem. It was pretty straight forward, just glue and screw ... except I spent a few hours measuring and making sure all the frames were square first.

    Here's a pic of the second layer of the keelson being dry fit.



    And here is a pic a week later with the keelson and stem installed. The stem looks like its just where I want it ... what a relief.



    I made all the stringers, chines, and gunwales. I scarfed pieces of wood together for the first time. They turned out OK, but I think I'm going to clamp them together next time instead of just laying them on the floor and putting a weight on the joint. I'll let you know if the scarf joints break when I try to bend the peices onto the frames. I'm going to let the epoxy cure for a few days longer first.


  44. #44
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Oh yes, and another reason I haven't been working on the boat. I decided to restore the trailer first. Here it is almost done (the new fenders aren't installed yet in this photo). Galvanized wheels, galvanized axle, galvanized hubs, painted frame.


  45. #45
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Looking very good Geary, the trailer looks great!! If you haven't already thought of it, a couple of guide rollers on either side aft of the side bench's/beams on the trailer make loading a whole lote easier to centre the boat on the centre rollers and avoid banging into the sharp edges of the benches.
    Larks

    "Be who you are and say what you feel...
    Because those that matter...don't mind...
    And those that mind.... don't matter."

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  46. #46
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Welcome back Geary.
    If it is legal in your State (& even if it ain't) it's better to have your lights on a board attached to the transom of your boat. Keeps the lights up where following traffic can see them. & out of the water.
    Keep It Simple: KISS it better.

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    I'm trying to fit up the chines and gunwales to the stem right now. I made them a little longer than necessary and I'm doing the angled cuts in them before I glue them up. However, I noticed that I don't have enough flat area on the stem for the chines to attach to. The plans don't show any details of this joint. I'm thinking of doing one of the options below.

    Which should I do? Any tips?


  48. #48
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Option 1 with a small block glued onto the stem to fill the space.

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    Said aforementioned small block glued on first to give you something to screw your first lamination to. Actually,make that quite a big block, shaped to fit your stem 'till it runs out either end.
    Do not attempt to glue both laminations on at once. Messy & very difficult.
    Last edited by Candyfloss; 10-30-2009 at 02:23 PM.
    Keep It Simple: KISS it better.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Hartley TS14 Construction

    option 2, inherently stronger; plus what candyfloss said

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