Restoration of a Twister

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  • WX
    Uki NSW Australia
    • Feb 2002
    • 35918

    Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
    Flooded Gum is nice if you can get a mature tree.
    Without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

    Comment

    • PeterSibley
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2001
      • 70993

      Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
      Mature trees are pretty thin on the ground but one even 30 years old will yield good timber .I've got a few here I planted 30 odd years ago that are going to come down soon .They're 18 to 20 inches through at head height and should be good .

      I don't think flooded gum is as flexible as spotted gum but the regrowth stuff you will get is a lot lighter ,almost like meranti sometimes .Not very durable by hardwood standards though, so don't make fence posts from it !
      '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
      Grateful Dead

      Comment

      • RFNK
        Port Stephens, Australia
        • Feb 2007
        • 26941

        Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
        Flooded gum is a very stable wood for boatbuilding. Spotted gum is much less stable. Whatever I use has to be compatible with the existing splined mahogany hull so spotted gum isn't an option as it's too unstable and too different in density from the existing planking. I'll probably sheath this hull anyway so maybe the stability of spotted gum wouldn't be that important then but I'd still have a problem with density (weight) as I'll have a lot more new planking on the starboard side than the port side. My current intention is to use flooded gum. If good planks become available at any time over the next year or two then I'll certainly be chasing them!
        Rick
        Rick

        Lean and nosey like a ferret

        Comment

        • PeterSibley
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2001
          • 70993

          Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
          Flooded gum and mahogany would be a good match, especially the much lighter regrowth we see now .
          Any idea of thickness x width x length ?
          '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
          Grateful Dead

          Comment

          • RFNK
            Port Stephens, Australia
            • Feb 2007
            • 26941

            Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
            I think so too. I don't want to run planks full length so 4m lengths would be good. Thickness about 25mm dressed to allow for fairing. Width will vary but some should be about 250mm or even wider, while 200 should be fine for most. I think I'll need about 30 lengths but 40 wouldn't go astray.
            Rick
            Rick

            Lean and nosey like a ferret

            Comment

            • Duncan Gibbs
              Ninety percent sandpaper
              • Oct 2007
              • 18339

              Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
              Why on Earth would you want to sheath the hull Rick?

              My view is that you would go the whole nine yards and sheath the thing inside and out and make sure every point where water could make ingress or be trapped bullet proof so it just cannot happen, or you just do it the old fashioned way and let the timber be timber. Seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem.

              Once I get milling (soon I hope) I may have a reasonable idea of how much FG I have up here. This is old growth stuff taken from a development site, so it's dense and should come off the saw reasonably straight. I want to use some for Erica for the inner diagonal layer, but may well have a bunch to spare at the end.
              Jarndyce and Jarndyce

              The Mighty Pippin
              Mirror 30141
              Looe
              Dragon KA93

              Comment

              • PeterSibley
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2001
                • 70993

                Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
                Originally posted by RFNK
                I think so too. I don't want to run planks full length so 4m lengths would be good. Thickness about 25mm dressed to allow for fairing. Width will vary but some should be about 250mm or even wider, while 200 should be fine for most. I think I'll need about 30 lengths but 40 wouldn't go astray.
                Rick
                Those sizes will be easy enough to find I'd say but wider than 250 might be fun.Were I you I'd start sniffing around for small mills than have a supply of gum logs .
                '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
                Grateful Dead

                Comment

                • WX
                  Uki NSW Australia
                  • Feb 2002
                  • 35918

                  Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
                  Flooded gum will take impressive curves. I bent my stringers and chines through compound curves towards the stem and all without steaming. It impressed me.
                  Without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

                  Comment

                  • RFNK
                    Port Stephens, Australia
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 26941

                    Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
                    Originally posted by Duncan Gibbs
                    Why on Earth would you want to sheath the hull Rick?

                    My view is that you would go the whole nine yards and sheath the thing inside and out and make sure every point where water could make ingress or be trapped bullet proof so it just cannot happen, or you just do it the old fashioned way and let the timber be timber. Seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem.

                    Once I get milling (soon I hope) I may have a reasonable idea of how much FG I have up here. This is old growth stuff taken from a development site, so it's dense and should come off the saw reasonably straight. I want to use some for Erica for the inner diagonal layer, but may well have a bunch to spare at the end.
                    The sheathing will be very strong, designed to strengthen and stiffen the hull. It will be a full wrap of the ouside, with ballast removed. The hull is already splined so it's equivalent to a strip-planked hull. I won't go into all the reasons why strip-planked hulls are usually sheathed these days but it's the opposite of wanting timber to do what timber in and out of water wants to do! I'll use two layers of double bias. Apart from wanting a stronger, stiffer hull (the boat was designed for racing, I'm not interested in racing - just cruising), I also want a hull that can take antifoul designed for glass boats. It's much more durable and effective than the AF available for timber boats - this has environmental, financial and time-related benefits.

                    I cannot agree with the idea that a hull should be sheathed on the inside and the outside. I think moisture is more likely to be trapped in this sandwich and mahogany is unfortunately prone to rot. I'll oil or varnish the interior so that I'll always be able to see what the timber's up to, and I'll set up all the interior so that it's clear and well-ventilated.

                    I've listened to the various views on this topic and have heard very good reasons to take a range of different approaches, from very knowledgeable and experienced people. I respect them all but I'm not going to load the donkey, chook, pig etc. on my back and fall into the river, so I have to make a choice. I know what I have and what I want and I believe that sheathing done correctly is the best option. Even if I was going to replank the whole boat, I would sheath it. This boat was built by one of the best boatbuilders in Sydney in the 1960s. After 50 years, there are some problems with the methods used and the materials used. I intend to learn from that and improve the boat with modern materials and methods. I'm not going to steam in the new frames as I know they'll crack again. I'm not going to have a ply deck with sheathing that doesn't go right over the gunwhales, as this causes rot, and I'll ensure that there are no holes in the deck that water can penetrate (as this ensures rot!). I'll strengthen the hull through stronger frames and sheathing, and use sheathing to protect the existing mahogany that I won't be replacing (all mahogany that is rotten or suspect will be replaced) as mahogany is very soft - not suitable for the hull of a cruising yacht in my opinion.
                    Rick
                    Rick

                    Lean and nosey like a ferret

                    Comment

                    • Larks
                      Larks
                      • Jul 2007
                      • 16793

                      Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
                      There's a lovely old Norman wright yacht in the yard at work at the moment, Oregon planked hull. The hull is in sound condition but the owner has been bothered that when he hauls it out the guys washing down the hull seem to be cutting into the timber more and more each time with the pressure wash. So he is glassing the eXterior this haul out, as recommended by wrights. They told him that they've done it countless times to older boats and as long as the timber feels and looks nice and dry it's fine to glass. They say not to glass the inside of it.
                      Larks

                      “It’s impossible”, said pride.
                      “It’s risky”, said experience.
                      “It’s pointless”, said reason.
                      “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

                      LPBC Beneficiary

                      "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

                      Comment

                      • PeterSibley
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2001
                        • 70993

                        Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
                        Is that the bloke I meet while I was visiting that day Greg ?

                        A pressure wash on Oregon sounds like a horrible idea !!
                        '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
                        Grateful Dead

                        Comment

                        • Larks
                          Larks
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 16793

                          Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
                          Originally posted by PeterSibley
                          Is that the bloke I meet while I was visiting that day Greg ?

                          A pressure wash on Oregon sounds like a horrible idea !!
                          I don't remember whether you met him or not Peter, his name is Bill. You met mark who owns Catersons now and he is working on Bills yacht but I don't think it was out at that time
                          Larks

                          “It’s impossible”, said pride.
                          “It’s risky”, said experience.
                          “It’s pointless”, said reason.
                          “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

                          LPBC Beneficiary

                          "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

                          Comment

                          • Candyfloss
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 2072

                            Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
                            Glass it on the outside, keep it dry on the inside. Sounds like a winning formula to me Rick.
                            Keep It Simple: KISS it better.

                            Comment

                            • Duncan Gibbs
                              Ninety percent sandpaper
                              • Oct 2007
                              • 18339

                              Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
                              Fair enough Rick; sounds perfectly reasonable.
                              Jarndyce and Jarndyce

                              The Mighty Pippin
                              Mirror 30141
                              Looe
                              Dragon KA93

                              Comment

                              • RFNK
                                Port Stephens, Australia
                                • Feb 2007
                                • 26941

                                Re: Restoration of a Twistebr />
                                Originally posted by Candyfloss
                                Glass it on the outside, keep it dry on the inside. Sounds like a winning formula to me Rick.
                                Hope so!
                                Rick
                                Rick

                                Lean and nosey like a ferret

                                Comment

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