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Thread: Restoration of a Twister

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    And for sale. I had a good look over her with a friend who was quite interested in her, she's lovely (but I think she's a bit small for him and his family).
    Larks

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  2. #142
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Yep, great boat but if I really had my druthers I'd go for something about 34' I reckon. But, we have this one and I think for a couple it should be great and there's no doubt about their seaworthiness. Ours is heading for Tassie or the GBR or maybe even the Land of the Long White Cloud if I get brave enough, or maybe all three! How would you say the room inside Able Mabel compares to the H28 Greg? I'd say she'd be a bit roomier as she's a bit deeper and has a smaller cockpit. What did you think?
    Rick

  3. #143
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Yep, great boat but if I really had my druthers I'd go for something about 34' I reckon. But, we have this one and I think for a couple it should be great and there's no doubt about their seaworthiness. Ours is heading for Tassie or the GBR or maybe even the Land of the Long White Cloud if I get brave enough, or maybe all three! How would you say the room inside Able Mabel compares to the H28 Greg? I'd say she'd be a bit roomier as she's a bit deeper and has a smaller cockpit. What did you think?
    Rick
    I was actually a bit surprised that she seemed so "pokey" inside, the H28s all seem more spacious in their various layouts. My friends have three very young children and the five of them would fit reasonably comfortably into a H28 but we looked at Able Mable with that comparison in mind and it just didn't seem to have enough space for them all. Though that may have been the layout and I didn't get any shots inside her to remind myself why she seemed so pokey.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  4. #144
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Hmmm, well this is Mabel's interior, from the last WBF:







    Unfortunately I didn't take a whole of cabin shot. It didn't feel pokey to me but then, after a Folkboat, nothing else seems pokey!!
    Rick

  5. #145
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Sorry Rick, Pokey is probably the wrong word, I just found her that little bit smaller than I'd want for myself and too "cosey" for my friends family. But I think that forward bulkhead and narrow doorway doesn't help. I reckon you could do away with that, have a porta loo instead of a head and open up the bow to the cabin a bit more.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  6. #146
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    No apology required! I don't want our boat to be pokey so any of your ideas on how to make it less so are most welcome! Those bulkheads are under the mast step so they're needed for strength. However, I'm going to be putting in a series of ring frames (so to speak) in that area so I should be able to widen that entry to the forward berths I think. I probably will install a toilet though as we want this boat set up for cruising and I think Trace's tolerance for the bucket might be wearing a bit thin.
    Rick

  7. #147
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Rick, some quick comments. Laminated ribs are good, but messy to do. Could be better to laminate in situ, do every second rib. Fasten from outside with chipboard screws through existing rivet holes till glue sets. Predrill for screws, use pine blocks on inside as "nut". Drill correct size for copper nails, some WD40 sprayed in hole before nail being driven in helps. Minimum 5 laminations to minimise springback but there will be a little. Laminated ribs will be harder to spring into place if not perfect, some fairing may be needed. Back up any glued heavy section timbers with metal fasteners. That plank damage near fasteners looks like some electrolysis damage, possibly rusted steel/iron floors replaced with stainless floors. Would be concerned about boat strength in aft area, maybe laminate some "bridle" pieces across the top of the stern post to land on top of ribs, use longer nails through both and a couple of srews to attach to the sternpost. Re room inside, Ghost is probably similar to Twister, typically english, deep but not so wide. American boats seem to have more room due to greater beam. I do like the standing headroom in Ghost for the full cabin length, which I dont think a standard H28 has. A compression post will free up room forward, if cabin extends forward of mast.

    Cheers for now
    Adrian
    the invisible man........

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Good luck with that restoration - a big job but you seem to have the energy and enthusiasm to carry it through.

    I have a Twister - a 1967 composite boat built by Upham's of Brixham, Devon.

    They are fine boats. I have had mine for 14 years and have no desire to change to any other boat.

    Have you joined the Twister Class association, by the way? You would be very welcome.

    http://www.twister.org.uk/index.html

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Thanks Adrian. I quite like laminating though and I don't find it too messy. I'm going to use the jig I made up to form the new frames and then fair them in. I'm going to replace about half the frames - all frames from the mast back. The frames will be substantially thicker than the existing steamed frames and I'm going to fasten the planking with screws into the new frames rather than copper nails. There is a cabin forward of the mast, in fact there's quite a lot of room up there, so I don't want to use a compression post. I'll be setting up several ring frames (almost) near the mast so I'll just see whether I can reduce the restriction caused by the current bulkhead arrangement. I think the stern area is pretty strong so maybe it just looks a bit light in the photos. I'm sure you're right re the damage to planking and frames from those metal floors. They were installed to accommodate a water tank. This is the original design but I don't know whether the floors that were there were original or not. I'm not sure yet what I'll do about replacing them.

    Twister, great to have you on this thread - I hope you'll be able to answer a few queries as I go with this! I have contacted the Twister Association and did get a response. I'll dig out the old emails and see what it was.
    Rick
    Last edited by RFNK; 05-17-2011 at 08:29 AM.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Well, I just picked up 45 metres of 100 x 38 PNG rosewood from a supplier in Sydney. I'm assured the stuff only comes from certified suppliers in PNG, which should mean that the timber mill supports sustainable logging and supports local landholders - I hope so! This should be enough to do most of the frames, if I don't mess too many up! So, I'll be looking for planking timber now - either PNG rosewood or flooded gum, I think. So, I just need to finish painting the front of our house and I'll then be able to spend a bit of time making up the new frames.
    Rick

  11. #151
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Well, I just picked up 45 metres of 100 x 38 PNG rosewood from a supplier in Sydney. I'm assured the stuff only comes from certified suppliers in PNG, which should mean that the timber mill supports sustainable logging and supports local landholders - I hope so! This should be enough to do most of the frames, if I don't mess too many up! So, I'll be looking for planking timber now - either PNG rosewood or flooded gum, I think. So, I just need to finish painting the front of our house and I'll then be able to spend a bit of time making up the new frames.
    Rick
    Brilliant!!! How did it compare price wise with up here and what sort of sizes can he do?
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  12. #152
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    I'm not sure how the price compares as I don't have prices from up your way. As far as sizes go, they seem to be able to supply a large range and the lengths are good - up to about 4m.
    Rick

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Sorry Rick, I thought I sent you the cubic meter price from the guy in Bris'?? He had 125mm x 36mm; 100mm x 36mm and 75mm x 25mm in 3metre lengths at $3500.00 per cubic metre.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  14. #154
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Thanks Greg. I don't remember seeing that. Anyway, it was a bit dearer than that but not too much! I'm pretty convinced that they got it from a kosher source so I don't mind paying that bit extra.
    Rick

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Just bumping this up. I'm wrapped up in work and shed and house renovations at present so the Twister remains on hold. Lots of ideas developing though!



    Rick

  16. #156
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    No progress to report except the wind ripped the cover to pieces so I'm about to put corrugated steel sheet up there instead! Just bumping this up for Euro.
    Rick

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    You've had some wild weather down that way I believe.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    A bit. You guys up there are lucky you live in a light wind area
    Rick

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    That's why I made my sail bigger than the 303 sq ft on the plans.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  20. #160
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Bump for Sayla but some progress to report soon!!
    Rick

  21. #161
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Bump for Jargo. Check post #135. Let me know if you need a closer view.
    Rick

  22. #162
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Well, I just picked up 45 metres of 100 x 38 PNG rosewood from a supplier in Sydney. I'm assured the stuff only comes from certified suppliers in PNG, which should mean that the timber mill supports sustainable logging and supports local landholders - I hope so! This should be enough to do most of the frames, if I don't mess too many up! So, I'll be looking for planking timber now - either PNG rosewood or flooded gum, I think. So, I just need to finish painting the front of our house and I'll then be able to spend a bit of time making up the new frames.
    Rick
    How are you going finding your planking material Rick ? There should be plenty of flooded gum around, it can usually be found up this way and around Coffs .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  23. #163
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    I haven't been looking Peter. I've been rebuilding and extending the shed and we've just started on house renovations. When I get back into the boat project, I'll be replacing frames for quite some time so there's no hurry. As part of the shed extension though, I'm building some timber racks at the back so I'll be able to store planking etc. At the moment, I just have nowhere to put long planks so it's probably a good thing that I don't have the planking yet. I think I'll take a trip up north when I am ready to get some planks though. At the moment, I'm sort of chasing some fairly big slabs for kitchen benches - I'd like to use blue gum if I can get it in big enough pieces. Any dark brown wood would suit though I think.
    Rick

  24. #164
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Ask Cockatoo Creek Timbers ... he has a wide bandsaw and specialises in that sort of thing .

    Cockatoo Creek Timbers

    Mount St, Dundurrabin, NSW 2453
    Clarence NSW, Clarence Valley, Mid North Nsw Coast
    p: (02) 6657 8122
    Website - none provided
    Email - none provided | Directions



    Re the gum ,when you need some ask me , there are a few decent mills up here and i may be able to help.

    Peter
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  25. #165
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Thanks Peter - that's great!
    Rick

  26. #166
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Flooded Gum is nice if you can get a mature tree.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  27. #167
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Mature trees are pretty thin on the ground but one even 30 years old will yield good timber .I've got a few here I planted 30 odd years ago that are going to come down soon .They're 18 to 20 inches through at head height and should be good .

    I don't think flooded gum is as flexible as spotted gum but the regrowth stuff you will get is a lot lighter ,almost like meranti sometimes .Not very durable by hardwood standards though, so don't make fence posts from it !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  28. #168
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Flooded gum is a very stable wood for boatbuilding. Spotted gum is much less stable. Whatever I use has to be compatible with the existing splined mahogany hull so spotted gum isn't an option as it's too unstable and too different in density from the existing planking. I'll probably sheath this hull anyway so maybe the stability of spotted gum wouldn't be that important then but I'd still have a problem with density (weight) as I'll have a lot more new planking on the starboard side than the port side. My current intention is to use flooded gum. If good planks become available at any time over the next year or two then I'll certainly be chasing them!
    Rick

  29. #169
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Flooded gum and mahogany would be a good match, especially the much lighter regrowth we see now .
    Any idea of thickness x width x length ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  30. #170
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    I think so too. I don't want to run planks full length so 4m lengths would be good. Thickness about 25mm dressed to allow for fairing. Width will vary but some should be about 250mm or even wider, while 200 should be fine for most. I think I'll need about 30 lengths but 40 wouldn't go astray.
    Rick

  31. #171
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Why on Earth would you want to sheath the hull Rick?

    My view is that you would go the whole nine yards and sheath the thing inside and out and make sure every point where water could make ingress or be trapped bullet proof so it just cannot happen, or you just do it the old fashioned way and let the timber be timber. Seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem.

    Once I get milling (soon I hope) I may have a reasonable idea of how much FG I have up here. This is old growth stuff taken from a development site, so it's dense and should come off the saw reasonably straight. I want to use some for Erica for the inner diagonal layer, but may well have a bunch to spare at the end.
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  32. #172
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I think so too. I don't want to run planks full length so 4m lengths would be good. Thickness about 25mm dressed to allow for fairing. Width will vary but some should be about 250mm or even wider, while 200 should be fine for most. I think I'll need about 30 lengths but 40 wouldn't go astray.
    Rick
    Those sizes will be easy enough to find I'd say but wider than 250 might be fun.Were I you I'd start sniffing around for small mills than have a supply of gum logs .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  33. #173
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Flooded gum will take impressive curves. I bent my stringers and chines through compound curves towards the stem and all without steaming. It impressed me.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  34. #174
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Why on Earth would you want to sheath the hull Rick?

    My view is that you would go the whole nine yards and sheath the thing inside and out and make sure every point where water could make ingress or be trapped bullet proof so it just cannot happen, or you just do it the old fashioned way and let the timber be timber. Seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem.

    Once I get milling (soon I hope) I may have a reasonable idea of how much FG I have up here. This is old growth stuff taken from a development site, so it's dense and should come off the saw reasonably straight. I want to use some for Erica for the inner diagonal layer, but may well have a bunch to spare at the end.
    The sheathing will be very strong, designed to strengthen and stiffen the hull. It will be a full wrap of the ouside, with ballast removed. The hull is already splined so it's equivalent to a strip-planked hull. I won't go into all the reasons why strip-planked hulls are usually sheathed these days but it's the opposite of wanting timber to do what timber in and out of water wants to do! I'll use two layers of double bias. Apart from wanting a stronger, stiffer hull (the boat was designed for racing, I'm not interested in racing - just cruising), I also want a hull that can take antifoul designed for glass boats. It's much more durable and effective than the AF available for timber boats - this has environmental, financial and time-related benefits.

    I cannot agree with the idea that a hull should be sheathed on the inside and the outside. I think moisture is more likely to be trapped in this sandwich and mahogany is unfortunately prone to rot. I'll oil or varnish the interior so that I'll always be able to see what the timber's up to, and I'll set up all the interior so that it's clear and well-ventilated.

    I've listened to the various views on this topic and have heard very good reasons to take a range of different approaches, from very knowledgeable and experienced people. I respect them all but I'm not going to load the donkey, chook, pig etc. on my back and fall into the river, so I have to make a choice. I know what I have and what I want and I believe that sheathing done correctly is the best option. Even if I was going to replank the whole boat, I would sheath it. This boat was built by one of the best boatbuilders in Sydney in the 1960s. After 50 years, there are some problems with the methods used and the materials used. I intend to learn from that and improve the boat with modern materials and methods. I'm not going to steam in the new frames as I know they'll crack again. I'm not going to have a ply deck with sheathing that doesn't go right over the gunwhales, as this causes rot, and I'll ensure that there are no holes in the deck that water can penetrate (as this ensures rot!). I'll strengthen the hull through stronger frames and sheathing, and use sheathing to protect the existing mahogany that I won't be replacing (all mahogany that is rotten or suspect will be replaced) as mahogany is very soft - not suitable for the hull of a cruising yacht in my opinion.
    Rick

  35. #175
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    Default Re: Restoration of a Twister

    There's a lovely old Norman wright yacht in the yard at work at the moment, Oregon planked hull. The hull is in sound condition but the owner has been bothered that when he hauls it out the guys washing down the hull seem to be cutting into the timber more and more each time with the pressure wash. So he is glassing the eXterior this haul out, as recommended by wrights. They told him that they've done it countless times to older boats and as long as the timber feels and looks nice and dry it's fine to glass. They say not to glass the inside of it.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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