Restoration of a Twister

[Larks]

Well, I just picked up 45 metres of 100 x 38 PNG rosewood from a supplier in Sydney. I'm assured the stuff only comes from certified suppliers in PNG, which should mean that the timber mill supports sustainable logging and supports local landholders - I hope so! This should be enough to do most of the frames, if I don't mess too many up! So, I'll be looking for planking timber now - either PNG rosewood or flooded gum, I think. So, I just need to finish painting the front of our house and I'll then be able to spend a bit of time making up the new frames.
Rick

Brilliant!!! How did it compare price wise with up here and what sort of sizes can he do?

[RFNK]

I'm not sure how the price compares as I don't have prices from up your way. As far as sizes go, they seem to be able to supply a large range and the lengths are good - up to about 4m.
Rick

[Larks]

Sorry Rick, I thought I sent you the cubic meter price from the guy in Bris'?? He had 125mm x 36mm; 100mm x 36mm and 75mm x 25mm in 3metre lengths at $3500.00 per cubic metre.

[RFNK]

Thanks Greg. I don't remember seeing that. Anyway, it was a bit dearer than that but not too much! I'm pretty convinced that they got it from a kosher source so I don't mind paying that bit extra.
Rick

[RFNK]

Just bumping this up. I'm wrapped up in work and shed and house renovations at present so the Twister remains on hold. Lots of ideas developing though!



Rick

[RFNK]

No progress to report except the wind ripped the cover to pieces so I'm about to put corrugated steel sheet up there instead! Just bumping this up for Euro.
Rick

[WX]

You've had some wild weather down that way I believe.

[RFNK]

A bit. You guys up there are lucky you live in a light wind area
Rick

[WX]

That's why I made my sail bigger than the 303 sq ft on the plans.

[RFNK]

Bump for Sayla but some progress to report soon!!
Rick

[RFNK]

Bump for Jargo. Check post #135. Let me know if you need a closer view.
Rick

[PeterSibley]

Well, I just picked up 45 metres of 100 x 38 PNG rosewood from a supplier in Sydney. I'm assured the stuff only comes from certified suppliers in PNG, which should mean that the timber mill supports sustainable logging and supports local landholders - I hope so! This should be enough to do most of the frames, if I don't mess too many up! So, I'll be looking for planking timber now - either PNG rosewood or flooded gum, I think. So, I just need to finish painting the front of our house and I'll then be able to spend a bit of time making up the new frames.
Rick

How are you going finding your planking material Rick ? There should be plenty of flooded gum around, it can usually be found up this way and around Coffs .

[RFNK]

I haven't been looking Peter. I've been rebuilding and extending the shed and we've just started on house renovations. When I get back into the boat project, I'll be replacing frames for quite some time so there's no hurry. As part of the shed extension though, I'm building some timber racks at the back so I'll be able to store planking etc. At the moment, I just have nowhere to put long planks so it's probably a good thing that I don't have the planking yet. I think I'll take a trip up north when I am ready to get some planks though. At the moment, I'm sort of chasing some fairly big slabs for kitchen benches - I'd like to use blue gum if I can get it in big enough pieces. Any dark brown wood would suit though I think.
Rick

[PeterSibley]

Ask Cockatoo Creek Timbers ... he has a wide bandsaw and specialises in that sort of thing .

Cockatoo Creek Timbers

Mount St, Dundurrabin, NSW 2453
Clarence NSW, Clarence Valley, Mid North Nsw Coast
p: (02) 6657 8122
Website - none provided
Email - none provided | Directions



Re the gum ,when you need some ask me , there are a few decent mills up here and i may be able to help.

Peter

[RFNK]

Thanks Peter - that's great!
Rick

[WX]

Flooded Gum is nice if you can get a mature tree.

[PeterSibley]

Mature trees are pretty thin on the ground but one even 30 years old will yield good timber .I've got a few here I planted 30 odd years ago that are going to come down soon .They're 18 to 20 inches through at head height and should be good .

I don't think flooded gum is as flexible as spotted gum but the regrowth stuff you will get is a lot lighter ,almost like meranti sometimes .Not very durable by hardwood standards though, so don't make fence posts from it !

[RFNK]

Flooded gum is a very stable wood for boatbuilding. Spotted gum is much less stable. Whatever I use has to be compatible with the existing splined mahogany hull so spotted gum isn't an option as it's too unstable and too different in density from the existing planking. I'll probably sheath this hull anyway so maybe the stability of spotted gum wouldn't be that important then but I'd still have a problem with density (weight) as I'll have a lot more new planking on the starboard side than the port side. My current intention is to use flooded gum. If good planks become available at any time over the next year or two then I'll certainly be chasing them!
Rick

[PeterSibley]

Flooded gum and mahogany would be a good match, especially the much lighter regrowth we see now .
Any idea of thickness x width x length ?

[RFNK]

I think so too. I don't want to run planks full length so 4m lengths would be good. Thickness about 25mm dressed to allow for fairing. Width will vary but some should be about 250mm or even wider, while 200 should be fine for most. I think I'll need about 30 lengths but 40 wouldn't go astray.
Rick

[Duncan Gibbs]

Why on Earth would you want to sheath the hull Rick?

My view is that you would go the whole nine yards and sheath the thing inside and out and make sure every point where water could make ingress or be trapped bullet proof so it just cannot happen, or you just do it the old fashioned way and let the timber be timber. Seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem.

Once I get milling (soon I hope) I may have a reasonable idea of how much FG I have up here. This is old growth stuff taken from a development site, so it's dense and should come off the saw reasonably straight. I want to use some for Erica for the inner diagonal layer, but may well have a bunch to spare at the end.

[PeterSibley]

I think so too. I don't want to run planks full length so 4m lengths would be good. Thickness about 25mm dressed to allow for fairing. Width will vary but some should be about 250mm or even wider, while 200 should be fine for most. I think I'll need about 30 lengths but 40 wouldn't go astray.
Rick

Those sizes will be easy enough to find I'd say but wider than 250 might be fun.Were I you I'd start sniffing around for small mills than have a supply of gum logs .

[WX]

Flooded gum will take impressive curves. I bent my stringers and chines through compound curves towards the stem and all without steaming. It impressed me.

[RFNK]

Why on Earth would you want to sheath the hull Rick?

My view is that you would go the whole nine yards and sheath the thing inside and out and make sure every point where water could make ingress or be trapped bullet proof so it just cannot happen, or you just do it the old fashioned way and let the timber be timber. Seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem.

Once I get milling (soon I hope) I may have a reasonable idea of how much FG I have up here. This is old growth stuff taken from a development site, so it's dense and should come off the saw reasonably straight. I want to use some for Erica for the inner diagonal layer, but may well have a bunch to spare at the end.

The sheathing will be very strong, designed to strengthen and stiffen the hull. It will be a full wrap of the ouside, with ballast removed. The hull is already splined so it's equivalent to a strip-planked hull. I won't go into all the reasons why strip-planked hulls are usually sheathed these days but it's the opposite of wanting timber to do what timber in and out of water wants to do! I'll use two layers of double bias. Apart from wanting a stronger, stiffer hull (the boat was designed for racing, I'm not interested in racing - just cruising), I also want a hull that can take antifoul designed for glass boats. It's much more durable and effective than the AF available for timber boats - this has environmental, financial and time-related benefits.

I cannot agree with the idea that a hull should be sheathed on the inside and the outside. I think moisture is more likely to be trapped in this sandwich and mahogany is unfortunately prone to rot. I'll oil or varnish the interior so that I'll always be able to see what the timber's up to, and I'll set up all the interior so that it's clear and well-ventilated.

I've listened to the various views on this topic and have heard very good reasons to take a range of different approaches, from very knowledgeable and experienced people. I respect them all but I'm not going to load the donkey, chook, pig etc. on my back and fall into the river, so I have to make a choice. I know what I have and what I want and I believe that sheathing done correctly is the best option. Even if I was going to replank the whole boat, I would sheath it. This boat was built by one of the best boatbuilders in Sydney in the 1960s. After 50 years, there are some problems with the methods used and the materials used. I intend to learn from that and improve the boat with modern materials and methods. I'm not going to steam in the new frames as I know they'll crack again. I'm not going to have a ply deck with sheathing that doesn't go right over the gunwhales, as this causes rot, and I'll ensure that there are no holes in the deck that water can penetrate (as this ensures rot!). I'll strengthen the hull through stronger frames and sheathing, and use sheathing to protect the existing mahogany that I won't be replacing (all mahogany that is rotten or suspect will be replaced) as mahogany is very soft - not suitable for the hull of a cruising yacht in my opinion.
Rick

[Larks]

There's a lovely old Norman wright yacht in the yard at work at the moment, Oregon planked hull. The hull is in sound condition but the owner has been bothered that when he hauls it out the guys washing down the hull seem to be cutting into the timber more and more each time with the pressure wash. So he is glassing the eXterior this haul out, as recommended by wrights. They told him that they've done it countless times to older boats and as long as the timber feels and looks nice and dry it's fine to glass. They say not to glass the inside of it.

[PeterSibley]

Is that the bloke I meet while I was visiting that day Greg ?

A pressure wash on Oregon sounds like a horrible idea !!

[Larks]

Is that the bloke I meet while I was visiting that day Greg ?

A pressure wash on Oregon sounds like a horrible idea !!

I don't remember whether you met him or not Peter, his name is Bill. You met mark who owns Catersons now and he is working on Bills yacht but I don't think it was out at that time

[Candyfloss]

Glass it on the outside, keep it dry on the inside. Sounds like a winning formula to me Rick.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Fair enough Rick; sounds perfectly reasonable.

[RFNK]

Glass it on the outside, keep it dry on the inside. Sounds like a winning formula to me Rick.

Hope so!
Rick

[Duncan Gibbs]

Hey Rick, PM me your phone number if you want to talk Flooded Gum.

[RFNK]

We put tin up on the roof of the Twister `shed' recently:





OK, it's not an ideal shed but it's nice and cool and should last long enough.

The other shed's what's been taking most of my spare time lately. It's now looking like this:





And, as we need to have multiple projects in train, the house currently looks like this:



Rick

[Duncan Gibbs]

Hey! You and yours are just like SWIMPAL and I!

[RFNK]

As in, too many projects happening all at once? Probably! Well, the boat shed is now set up pretty much how I want it - all the clutter under it is from the demolition of the bits of the house we're changing, so that's temporary. I will build some steps up to the boat deck too later on. The work shed is set up inside how I want it now - I'll post a picture of that if anyone's interested and over the next few weeks I hope to put some windows in the back wall, set up timber racks outside the back wall, and complete the drainage. The house is a fairly major project - I have a friend who's a builder doing most of the new framing and foundations but I'll be doing all the cladding, finishing and interior, including a new kitchen and upstairs bathroom. But I'm going to do the hpouse and boat in parallel to avoid letting either go for too long and also to avoid getting too sick of the one job. So, once the work shed is finished early next year, then I should be able to start work on the Twister again.


Duncan, I'll come and get the timber from you once I have the racks set up at the back of the shed. This should be in January. However, let me know if you need any help with that timber before that and I'll get up there.


For those who don't know, Duncan's letting me have a stack of flooded gum (for planking), silky oak (for the kitchen in the house) and white mahogany (for floors etc.) from some logs he's having milled. Duncan lives up the road from me, about 400 miles away, so I need to arrange a trailer or truck to get the timber home. It's green so Duncan needs to rack out all the timber he's cutting and I'll need to rack out my part of it back at home.

Rick

[Duncan Gibbs]

It's looking like the end of the week at best to start milling now Rick. We must've had at least 50mm of rain last night and more storms predicted for tonight. The sawyer is still stuck on one job around the corner and can't use his tractor for all the mud. My paddock is as wet as a shag but we have plan B for getting the milled timber out and all the logs, bar the butt log of White Mahogany are set to roll straight into the mill off the gluts.

[RFNK]

No need to hurry on my account Duncan. Pretty wet here today too!
Rick

[RFNK]

No progress to report - just bumping the thread to keep it alive. I have welded together a whole lot of angle iron though, to make racks for the timber I'm planning to pick up from Duncan soon. I'll post a picture of the racks when they're fastened to the back of the shed. Bet you all can't wait for that!!

Rick

[skuthorp]

Yeah, we keep hearing about all that water, we're promised some of it on sunday I think. I've built a couple more sandbag weirs in the creek just especially.

[Bernadette]

rick
now i have shed envy!
what a beauty!

[WX]

Yeah I like his shed as well...not mention what he has in it.

[RFNK]

Thanks! This is an inside out shot of the shed.


Rick

[Larks]

You have great light in the shed Rick. I need some windows in mine but need to include bars or mesh to do so I reckon.

[RFNK]

Most of the light comes from polycarbonate sheets in the roof. The shed's pitches are aligned east west so there are two north faces and two south faces. I put three poly sheets in each of the south faces. This gives good light without being too hot and I can store junk under the north faces without blocking light.

Rick

[JoshuaIII]

Here is your thread!
When the launching? Just kidding

[RFNK]

Yes, this is it! Don't hold your breath! I think perhaps you and your little family might have sailed here by then in your new home!

Rick

[RFNK]

Everything else is still in the way of the poor old Twister but, I am travelling north next week to pick up some planking timber so .... in a rather pathetic attempt to keep this thread alive, here's a picture of some racks I just built to store timber for the boat and other projects on at the back of the new shed:



Rick

[Larks]

You need to stand Tracey in front of that and take the photo again so that when we all say "nice rack Rick"..................hmmm, maybe don't tell her I suggested that!!


On a more civilised note, I posted this a while ago so I don't know what they might have left, but was just reminded of it by Peter, these guys are selling off quite a lot of stacks of timber at about half price(ish) depending on what it is, closing down there solid timber section and concentrating on veneers. I don't know if you need more timber but it may be of interest?:

http://www.matildaveneer.com.au/timber_sale.ews

[RFNK]

Thanks Greg. I think I'm pretty right for a while and will definitely be right out of space once I get all the timber from Duncan's. Hard to pass up good timber at a good price though isn't it?

Rick

[JoshuaIII]

A real update with real picture... Darn Rick nice to see !

What's the timber specie?

[RFNK]

The timber I'm getting for planking is flooded gum, a species of eucalyptus. I already have some Papua New Guinea rosewood that I will use to make laminated frames. Oh, and I'm getting some white mahogany from Duncan too that I will use for floors. I'll see if I can find the botanical names for these trees.

Rick