For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and NOT epoxy.
country member
For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and NOT
For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and NOT epoxy.
..don't judge a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes..
A.K.A Gareth
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Because as the wood wears away, you get little castles of epoxy.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
The epoxy is too strong a bond and if future removal is necessary it can damage the surrounding wood and then an oversize hole must be drilled for the next bung. Some success can be achieved by using a heat gun to soften the epoxy before removing the bung.
Oakman
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
On brightwork I'd suggest using varnish instead of the paint or glue.
A buddy of mine that is "Old School" when it comes to wooden boats uses only varnish even if the bung will be painted over. He belives it's the best, seals well, no issues with visibility or paint adhesin to the glue line (should there be one, gawd forbid) and they are the easier to remove when the time comes. I believe him, his work is amazing.
Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
There's no reason to use anything at all.
Toss the scraps you make bungs from into a box and set it indoors near the stove. Cut your bungs from indoor-dry wood and they'll swell to a perfect friction fit in the hull outdoors.
When it's time to remove them, simply drive a thin #6 or so wood screw into them using a power drill. They'll pop right out without damaging the plank. Glue them in using a serious glue like epoxy, and they'll take a big, ugly chunk of plank with them coming out.
boatwright/film/video
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Nonsense. I see you have not done this many times.Originally Posted by Bob Smalser
For a variety of reasons the fit of bungs is sometimes quite sloppy. I typically use Weldwood mixed to a thick consistencey. Epoxy is hell to get out and leaves a nasty ring around the bung when staining.
However, there are times when you have to use epoxy. For example on speedboats there is often a lot of shape forward on the topsides. Since speedboat planks are typically 3/8s and fairing sometimes lessens this. Since the planks are so thin, you can't sink the screw farther to allow enough room to glue the bung with Weldwood. So sometimes there is only a very small amount left to set the bung. In a case like this you have to use epoxy.
But certainly avoid it if you can.
Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Shucks. Sure works for me. I could be wrong, but I always thought wood swells and shrinks with humidity. And that we were in an era of a new respect for science, too. Even among the learning-challenged. I must be mistaken.
Then I guess Yellow Cedar really is too unstable to use as planking, Western Larch is only suitable for firewood, and mahogany kilned to 8% is great boat wood while Doug Fir kilned to 19% is just more firewood.
But then again maybe it's just that my countersink bits nicely match my bung cutters. Buy both from the same manufacturer, and buy quality. I choose and maintain my tools carefully. That's why my Stanley planes work so well.
Last edited by Bob Smalser; 07-04-2009 at 12:38 AM.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I'm currently removing heaps of bungs and screws from the Twister I'm going to restore. Where bungs have been put in with epoxy, it's often filled the slots of the screws making the screws impossible to remove. Many of the bungs have been put in with resorcinol too. The bungs have to be chiselled out but at least the screws can be removed. I'd have to say I wish all these bungs had just been put in with paint or Bob's method above. Rick
boatwright/film/video
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I'd wager that most of the bung setting that goes on is in restoration work where one has little control over matching countersink and bung cutter.
In regards to your mentioning AYC's stability, I gather that was from a discussion we had long ago when you called Frank Prothero's statement that it "comes and goes too much" an "old wives' tale." (Quoted respectively.) (Frank was one of the local masters of the boatbuilding craft. Disagreeing with Frank Prothero over a basic issue in boatbuilding would be like me disagreeing with John Ford over a basic movie making technique. Lotta nerve.)
I was over at Jensen Motorboat recently and mentioned your statement to the head guys there. They said that AYC _does_ open up when exposed to moisture cycling. I guess the scientific viewpoint for me would to go with Frank and the guys from Jensens.
Sometimes reliable expertise must come from other sources than recitations from wood manuals.
Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
What you're not saying is that he planked that 75' schooner with Western Red Cedar at substantially greater cost than most large hulls where Doug Fir is more common. Or AYC or POC....but more likely DF because it's harder. WRC is so soft it's almost unheard of in a hull that large.
So why did a builder who really knew his business use WRC instead of one of the other heavier and harder woods?
Compression set. The more seasonally stable the wood, the longer the planks last in service without the requirement for surgery because they reach the point where they no longer take up. WRC is more stable than all the others by leaps and bounds.
He wasn't telling you AYC is too unstable for planking, he knew damn well it was the favorite of the Navy to plank thousands of dry-sailed gigs and whaleboats for over a century. He was telling you it wouldn't last as long as the WRC without leaking. You understand so little about wood, you likely missed his point entirely.
Last edited by Bob Smalser; 07-05-2009 at 01:49 PM.
Junior Cinq-etoile
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I'll never really understand why some folks like to build boats which can be easily taken apart. I cannot count the number of times I've heard or read stuff like,"don't use epoxy,3M5200 or any other permanent adhesive/glue to attach/secure your;bungs,rub-rails,hand-rails,toe-rails" and for all I know toe-nails too.....you know....."just in case you ever have to replace or remove it/them". I can't for the life of me figure why anyone would ever feel the need to remove these things.They are not meant to be removable.
But yes, there will be stories of an old wooden boat getting renovated and the need to replace a cap-rail,rub-rail etc,etc...due to rot or an accident and the horrible troubles the new owner had removing these bits without destroying the whole piece. This is where the advice "not to use epoxy, 5200 etc,etc..." usually starts to be offered with the rational going something like" ya'll don't wanna be glueing that piece on there with epoxy or blah blah blah just in case ya have to remove her again,like ya just did there!" So the new owner proceeds to secure his "removable bits" with silicone,bathroom caulk,horse hair etc....in anticipation of a soon future removal session or out of heart felt concern for some invisible future owner. Of course, since the rub-rail,toe-rail etc,etc, are eventually going to get removed again anyway, the new owner goes a little skimpy with his bathroom caulking etc,etc... to get the most bang for the buck. With just about useless stuff between the faying surfaces slowly drying and shrinking away from the parts,water starts to find comfy quarters to reside in and rot soon begins to grow. A few years down the road either the same owner or a "lucky" new owner is faced with having to replace this now rotting piece. He or she will be generous in their praise and gratefull that piece wasn't attached with epoxy,5200 etc,etc, or else they would have had a bitch of a time removing it. And on it goes, this crazy cycle of reckless re-builds.
Due to my extreme laziness, I hate having to re-visit and replace parts of my boat because they are rotting or falling apart. Instead I like to build as if they will last forever and when I use them, I like to take my time and be careful not to go driving into lock walls shredding off the rub-rail or using a quay/dock as my emergency braking system......I also find it far easier to do regular little bits of maintenance then wait until I have to wood the whole darned piece.
O.K., that's enough of my cheapo .02¢CAN contribution.
Cheers!
Peter, the lazy bum...
Last edited by P.L.Lenihan; 07-04-2009 at 08:20 AM.
Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
J.Lennon
This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
T.T. You are a man after my own heart. I could not have said it better.
Keep It Simple: KISS it better.
Junior Cinq-etoile
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Protect your heart Candyfloss, there are bound to be many who will poopoo stuff like my bit of craziness above
Cheers!
Peter
Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
J.Lennon
This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
man your so funny, its about time the wbf had a stand up comedian, i agree we shouldnt take this too seriously, there only old boats
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
There will indeed. A yacht that's hopefully going to last a very long time (I have two that are both 50 years old) is going to need various parts removed and I'm very glad that much of them can actually be taken apart. In restoration, I use a lot of epoxy. But I try not to use it in places where it's unnecessary, going to cause problems sooner or later and to fasten parts that are likely to need to be removed later on. I glue frames together with epoxy but I don't glue them to the planks, for example. I use a polyurethane glue for bungs but I think I'll switch to varnish or try Bob Smalser's method in future. I use epoxy as a sealant on skin fittings as that's actually easy to remove with a heat gun later on if necessary. I sheath the deck with epoxy/glass as that's really strong but also easy to remove when necessary etc. isn't really any extra work. To fasten down the deck, put the cabin together, the cockpit etc., I'd always use epoxy. With interior furniture, I avoid using epoxy as it's likely that I, or someone else, will have to remove furniture to do hull repairs etc. I'm a bit lazy too but restoring old boats does teach you to be grateful to people who have thought about what might need to be done to the boat some day, and avoiding epoxy in just some places, isn't really creating any extra work. If building a small boat, e.g, glued clinker dinghy, I'd use epoxy to glue it all together as I just don't think anyone will want to pull this kind of boat apart too much. Easier to replace the whole thing when it's that far gone. Rick
Junior Cinq-etoile
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Hi Rick,
I perhaps should mention that for most old boats undergoing restoration/renovation, they may well be little floating universes of rot spores waiting to grow and restoring these boats,properly, is a very expensive proposition for in the end, you end up with a very expensive fresh old boat.Often times it is quicker and cheaper to build new, but optimists don't know it when they buy their gorgeous fixer-upper.
The craziness I wrote about above, best applies to new construction and requires a good regiment regarding maintenance. Blending new technologies with old boats while attempting to retain their traditional flavour is a fussy business.Like your choice to epoxy frames together with epoxy but not the frames to the planks.Excellent!
Cheers!
Peter, the laziest bum
Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
J.Lennon
This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.
country member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Am I the only one who has my personal settings so that I see the latest post first? Confusing when people refer to comments made above when I am reading the top post. Maybe it is because I miss home and I like everything upside down.Like the moon.Hi Rick,
I perhaps should mention that for most old boats undergoing restoration/renovation, they may well be little floating universes of rot spores waiting to grow and restoring these boats,properly, is a very expensive proposition for in the end, you end up with a very expensive fresh old boat.Often times it is quicker and cheaper to build new, but optimists don't know it when they buy their gorgeous fixer-upper.
The craziness I wrote about above, best applies to new construction and requires a good regiment regarding maintenance. Blending new technologies with old boats while attempting to retain their traditional flavour is a fussy business.Like your choice to epoxy frames together with epoxy but not the frames to the planks.Excellent!
Cheers!
Peter, the laziest bum
Did you know that? The moon is upside down here in California.
..don't judge a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes..
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
No your not alone, it's much better if a person just says "the last post" or better yet provides a quote , properly done showing who said what.
But then that may be asking to much.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Is that why people insert quotation boxes in their posts restating what's just been said ? I've wondered about this .
The creation of beauty is more satisfying and joyous than mere possession.
John Gardner
old egg owner
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
On the bottom of my boat, I did not even use bungs. I used PL premium polyurethane construction adhesive. It works good and is soft enough you can run a flat bladed spoon type bit into the "bung" to clean it out if you ever had to remove it.
This glue swells up when it sets and therefore insures a nice seal to the wood to keep the screw head "dry". If dry is even possible on the boat bottom.
You still have to sand or scrape the bung smooth like you would do with a wooden bung. AND you dont have to cut bungs from wood which I have found to be very tedious. And I dont like wasting wood on something like this. Those glue bungs will NEVER FALL OUT or FAIL.
very easy painless bunging.
wooden sailboat owner
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
In addition to the reasons mentioned above, epoxy is expensive, has to be mixed then used before it cures, and some people develop alergies to it very easily. Paint or varnish is cheap and easy, especially since it is recommended to use old paint or varnish that you would probably throw out anyway. Weldwood is also easy to mix up in small batches.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Lets say that a boat is hauled out for the repair of a busted frame and the builder needs to fasten a sister or maybe repair a butt block or general refastening is needed and the bung holes are "gnarffed". and the planking is satuated with salt water. How then will the bungs be fastened? A very simple old method is to forget using bungs and apply a paste made of Dry Portland Cement mixed with bottom paint so as to form a putty. This mix will hold until hell freezes over!
Jay
old egg owner
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I almost went with cement on mine as I knew it would work fine and be easily removed. But I had been using the construction adhesive and was quite familiar with it. And the cement mixture would add weight to the boat. yeah maybe only 50 to 100 lbs.
I have read some people use the cement mixture for seams.
Twelve years and counting
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Well, I always seem to have an end of a can of varnish on hand that is no longer fit for much and it either gets tipped into the rigging slush or used for what I was taught to call dowels but which most people here being on the windward side of the Atlantic call bungs.
(A "bung" in our version of the language is a bribe)
IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
... and which antipodeans call 'plugs.'
Plugs or bungs have the grain running transversely, whereas what we here call 'dowels' have the grain running longitudinally -- no good for this purpose as water can get wicked into the structure by capillary action along the grain.
Swallow lost her mainmasthead and thus her mast because someone used a dowel to plug a hole where a fitting had been. Fortunately the lower part of the mast was salvageable and resold, while the masthead itself became the support for my sun-dial....
Mike
Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.
country member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Bottom paint and cement. I like the sound of that.
..don't judge a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes..
Occasional Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Oooh! I wonder what Smalser would say if he ran one of his perfectly sharpened countersink bits into something like that. Probably have to toss the bit and its perfectly matched bung cutter into the waste bin.
Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I'll have to do an illustrated tutorial. I thought this was all pretty simple, but you seem to have gotten it backwards.
The bung cutters are used on fresh scrap, the countersinks on fresh or cleaned planks, and a wood screw powerdriven into old bungs to remove them. A hard deck screw makes short work of the various Portland Cement tar and paint concoctions used on bottoms. As most of these hard goos don't contain sand, they are quite crumbly and won't damage cutting edges significantly if you also manage to get this backwards using real tools. The galvy screw lurking beneath that bung is a different story, however.
Last edited by Bob Smalser; 07-07-2009 at 03:15 PM.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
The reason not to glue plugs in hard is that they will have to come out, at some point.
So many questions, so little time.
Twelve years and counting
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Bob, I like your method. I'd never thought of drying the scrap bits before cutting the bungs (aka plugs, dowels, whatever..
I use the Stanley cutters because they are the only ones that I have seen in tool shops, here, but I have wondered what people used before power tools came along! Are there better ones to look out for?
IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT
Occasional Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I'll have to do an illustrated tutorial. I thought this was all pretty simple, but you seem to have gotten it backwards.
The bung cutters are used on fresh scrap, the countersinks on fresh or cleaned planks, and a wood screw powerdriven into old bungs to remove them. A hard deck screw makes short work of the various Portland Cement tar and paint concoctions used on bottoms. As most of these hard goos don't contain sand, they are quite crumbly and won't damage cutting edges significantly if you also manage to get this backwards using real tools. The galvy screw lurking beneath that bung is a different story, however.
Hey Smalser,
No tutorial needed. Having worked the boatyards in Alaska and seen every manner of gunk stuck in bung holes in all kinds of commercial fishing boats, I have a fair grasp of the drill. I just felt the need to poke a little fun in your direction for your sanctimonious attitude about the perfection of your tools, and your sarcastic remarks to other veteran shiprights who express opinions at odds with your own.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
If you are working on the bottom, 90% of the time if the plugs have to come out, so do the fasteners and often enough, the plank will need pulling too. Otherwise, you're just replacing one plug with another because it came to be proud. But if you are pulling fasteners because planking work needs doing, at that point, it doesn't matter what you set in the hole because major demolition will be part of the program anyway. You'll be cutting away the plank with a recip. saw and pulling those fasteners with a Vice Grip. If you are re-fastening, you have a different set of issues and you get to decide if you are going to pull the existing fasteners and reuse the same holes as you'd hope to do, (and this means easy out bungs would be a plus) or if you will be placing new fasteners alongside the old ones.
The number of times you really consciously want to get at the fasteners on the bottom is pretty limited in practice; I think if you're "lucky," to pulling them for refastening.
I'll guess that for seagoing boats, the issue isn't how to make bottom plugs easy to remove, it's how to keep them from popping out under the pressure of corroded and expanding metal beneath them across time. I'm sure I will be skewered if I am judged wrong, but I will say that what you use to hold bottom plugs in should be first and foremost durable and water resistant/proof. I mean, how often do you really want to pull the plugs on the bottom of a boat?
Topsides, the plugs under galvy/iron fasteners will come proud in handfuls across time and whatever you set them in will yield, with greater or lesser dignity, to the force of expanding metal beneath the
fastener. The idea that you will be pulling plugs for repair is certainly real enough; the problem is that most times, the rest of the wood has to come along too! Weldwood makes a good solution if you think in this way in respect to the topsides, and anything handy short of hard epoxy (and that in a pinch) works on the bottom. Old varnish or paint depending on where you are working is just fine because, as Andrew says...what else will you do with it?
But really; I would like to mildly divert the discussion to this question: After the plug on the topsides has worked it's way out, broken through the coating and created the need for another paint job, what is your preferred method for treating the fastener beneath to prevent that happening again? I think we need to visit that question here too!
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I'm still trying to figure out the geometry of using very dry stock to make bungs. Given that wood swells across the grain, but not much along it, a bung cut out of very dry wood wood swell into an elliptical shape when wet.
The question is:
If you align the grain of the bung with the grain of the planks, what happens when the dry bungs swell? Does the bung get very tight up-and-down, but not so tight fore-and-aft? Does this make a difference?
On the subject of Alaskan yellow. I spent a few months as captain on a schooner with Alaska yellow ceiling and planking of the laid deck. The deck was lovely, very tight and with enough give to be a lot nicer than teak. I think that Heffershoff used cedar as deck sheathing on some of his J-boats. It has very nice feel and traction, and looks good.
Old growth white pine, 16+ rings to the inch, is supposed to make the very nicest decking.
I have set underwater bungs in red lead, bottom paint, epoxy, topside bungs in white lead, topside paint, but under varnish I've only used varnish, unless the counterbore was really a mess.
If nothing else, the low-tech paint/varnish stuff is so much easier to work with. Stick 50 bungs nose-down in varnish, and they will stay good just fine until the end of the day. Compare that to the on-going chemistry experiment that is epoxy...
SEO
Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Fun, eh?
It works both ways. Then like Ford, we can agree to keep our smart-ass remarks to ourselves, can't we?
I've spent years being either quiet or defensive and writing them off to personality defects and other demons. In the process I've watched some fine boatbuilders and scientists here run off or discouraged to post by purposefully bad behavior directed at them. I'm tired of it. Pick up a stick, and be prepared for somebody with a bigger one.
Last edited by Bob Smalser; 07-07-2009 at 06:40 PM.
Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
You don't even have to do that, if your cutters are well matched.
All you have to do is get them to stay in place during any trimming and until you get a coat of paint or varnish on them. You'll get enough seepage into the joint to hold them in until you decide to remove them. And with perfectly clean screw slots and a lot of time saved because you didn't have to fuss around trying to get glue in the hole without gooping up the screw head.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Many years ago I heard about using 10# cut shellac to seal bungs. Always have, seems to work well.
Occasional Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Well Smalser, you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror. For someone who is consistently derisive and sarcastic, you have some pretty thin skin. You have flamed me and many others here who's opinions I respect. I've simply had enough of your bad manners. Put me on you ignore list if you like; I'll be in good company.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
In my experience, it can.
I always match the timber in plugs to that in the fitting (usually cutting them from the same piece of wood as the fitting itself.) But I once had two small (4") horn cleats split full-length due to the use of dry plugs inserted this way that swelled as the moisture content stabilised after their insertion.
With larger fittings (ie more material each side of the plugs to contain the expansive pressures,) that may not have occurred.
(This also implies that if the plugs had been inserted with their grain running at right-angles to that in the cleats, then the cleats would not have split. But for aesthetic reasons of course we would never insert plugs like that anyway.)
So I'd treat dried-out plugs with some caution, especially if there's not much timber to contain the sideways pressure developed as they swell.
Mike
Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.
Banned
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
So, Andrew C-B, coming from a cabinet/furniture background, I have always been very fond of the Veritas tapered plug cutters. Veritas is the tool arm of Lee Valley. These should be available in the UK.
Cabinets and furniture very rarely are called upon to withstand wet, though.
Is there some reason these would be a poor choice for planking?
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I most often find the quotes annoying, unless taken from way up the thread. But then I read from the start of the thread to the end, same with books. I should probably insert a quote here. Oh, and I think bad manners are always to be regretted, a point can usually be made much more effectively without resort to personal offensiveness.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
they should be good for planking, as the taper is probably not extreme, if it was, when a deck wears the plug dia would decrease, & then maybe the glue would release a bit, they sound a good idea, because starting a grain plug in the hole is what takes the time, i dont think you can buy them in most toolshops, you guys are spoilt for choice, having a cheap terrific source of timber & a much larger range of specialist tools for timber
Banned
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
No, the taper is not extreme, and plug length is limited to about 1/2" (13 mm). As I recall, the minimum diameter is ~ .04" less than spec., and the major diameter is ~ .12" over.
I think the Ozzies are way more spoilt for timber than we are!
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I've always had good luck with Fuller plug cutters and tapered bitts, which isn't to say that they're aren't better out there.
Has anyone on here ever tried to sharpen a tapered bitt? I was told once that you could send them back to Fuller, and they'd do it. With little bitts, say under #12, the cost of a new bitt isn't so bad. But I have # 240 & #24 bitts, and they don't give those away.
In any event, if a Fuller plug cutter is driven to its full depth, it makes a little chamfer around the end, which makes them easy to get started into a hole.
It seems like this thread is coming down to a few conclusions:
a) Just about any hardening goo that isn't water-soluble or highly corrosive will work for setting bungs.
b) Setting bungs too tight can cause wood to split in some cases.
c) Wood swells when wet, shrinks when dry, more across the grain than with it.
d) Good humor is a valuable trait in correspondence. I think that in general the lamest self-deprecating joke is preferable over rapier wit. We are talking about wooden boats here, not medical research or global climate change.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I find the Fuller set is excellent. I don't really think the tapered bits are necessary though. Once the tapered bit is blunt or broken, it's easy and effective to replace with just a regular bit. RickI've always had good luck with Fuller plug cutters and tapered bits, which isn't to say that they're aren't better out there.
Has anyone on here ever tried to sharpen a tapered bitt?
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Not just Fuller. We use two sorts of plug-cutters (in a range of sizes,) neither of them Fuller's, and get a rounded chamfer on the end every plug from them all.
.
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Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
I suspect you are correct.Dear mr Smalser,
.....(Here) they regularly use tapered bung cutters. For a better fit up they say. Now on my boat, some of the bungs are being squeezed out. Not sure why, haven’t had the chance to examine it in detail yet, but I suspect they used them tapered bung / hole cutters and not used any glue or sealant. Then when the tapered bung swelled it may have pushed itself out of the hole. I am not an experienced boat builder and I like your idea of not using anything to secure the bung.
My guess however is that not using anything to secure the bungs works well when using straight bung cutters, but not so well with them tapered ones....
I don't use tapered bung cutters, mine and their countersinks are mostly straight-sided Fuller with some cheaper Chinese countersinks mixed in for repair work around hardware.
I can envision even the mildest taper aiding the bung in backing itself out with seasonal movement like it would any tapered peg, glue or no glue. I doubt the taper aids in the bung's function, but is there to make the bungs fall out of the cutter easier and the looser bung easier to set with less of a tendency to turn in the direction of the drill marks left by the countersink as it's tapped home.
And last, given their minuscule size and mass, I don't think there's much danger of a dry bung swelling with enough force to split a plank. But if that's a worry, no biggie....use varnish or a little UF resin glue to hold looser bungs in place. Of all the critical facets of boatbuilding, bungs aren't worth this much excitement.
Last edited by Bob Smalser; 07-08-2009 at 09:03 AM.
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Hey Bob
Do you really cut your bungs with a bandsaw, wow
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Above the water line I mix saw dust from the same wood with old varnish and make a runny paste to set the bung. The next day I sand the surface making the bung flush. Any imperfections are filled by the sawdust/varnish mix. When i varnish the piece everything finishes out nicely. The bung is easily removed by driving a screw thru the bung. When the screw contacts the fastener below it pushes the bung out.
Jim
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
this amazes me, i am S F I A approved for yachts & boats, & like lloyds they will not pass bungs that are not glued
Senior Member
Re: For what reason do they say to seal screw bungs with paint or waterproof glue and
Why is that? Bungs are usually to cover fasteners and are not structural. Note my way of dealing with bungs are above the water line and again are not structural.
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