Failed Oar Lock

[vkanthak]

I took my pram out for a spin the other day. Much to my surprise, when I laid hard into the stroke, the port side (ring style) bronze oar lock failed. The shaft snapped right off. Fortunately I was close to shore and could paddle the pram back to the ramp.

I went home and got a second set of oars. I was even more surprised when the same thing happened to this set of oars. Again, I was close to the ramp and could paddle the boat back.

These oar locks are not old. I finished building the boat about three years ago. I bought the oar locks from Jamestown Distributers. Each set was purchased about 1 year apart.

I wrote to their (amestown Distributers) customer support and explained the situation. I asked if these failures could be the result of a problem in their manufacture. The reply that I received was:

“This is not a failed product, they are cast and unfortunately they do break. Sorry. “

Personally, I find it hard to believe that it is usual for these things to fail given normal day to day use. While I like to believe that I am endowed with super strength, reality tells me that I should not be able to snap 1/2 “ cast bronze that is only a few years old.

It makes me wonder how secure I should feel when rowing my pram if every time I row hard there is a risk of breaking the oarlock.

Has anyone else had similar failures that would support Jamestown’s claim?

Thanks

[JimConlin]

Bullfeathers!
A rowlock should not fail in use and if one did, the manufacturer should replace it.

Several years ago, I got from Jamestown a very poorly made pair of bronze Buck-Algonquin rowlocks. They were returned.

[Antonio Majer]

I bought two pairs of them with Jamestown and for me they have been working fine; last Sunday we rowed 26 km in the sea without any problem. I'm not expert, but are you sure you have fastened them correctly? I for one had to try a lot before finding the correct position.Are you sure they can spin freely?

[BC Bill]

I only use oar locks with a 5/8" shaft. Harder to find but nice to know you have that little extra bit of bronze when you need to pull hard to get where you want to go.

Mine came from Port Townsend Foundry - haven't been able to break one yet despite racing with my 225 lb logger son on 9.5 ft oars.

[Bobcat]

I bought a pair of oarlocks from West Marine and one of them broke within a few hours. West Marine replaced them. The casting looked porous to my untrained eye

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I only use oar locks with a 5/8" shaft. Harder to find but nice to know you have that little extra bit of bronze when you need to pull hard to get where you want to go.

Mine came from Port Townsend Foundry - haven't been able to break one yet despite racing with my 225 lb logger son on 9.5 ft oars.

Most of the oarlocks out there would be chinese bronze... very poor castings.... Port Townsend would be the real deal

[Thorne]

I'd give Jamestown a call and tell them you won't do business with them unless they replace these parts. If they won't go for it, deal with Hamilton Marine instead -- better prices and service in my limited experience.

I've never bent or broken an oarlock, but some of the newer pieces do seem pretty cheesey...

[Yeadon]

Are your oarlock sockets matched to your oarlocks, as in, are they the right size? Is one of them bent, or poorly finished and is causing a fatigue/stress under certain circumstances? Probably worth chasing this a bit.

Whoever you end up buying more oarlocks from, buy a couple extra. Then take an extra along with you and tie it into the boat. Sounds like you are destined to break oarlocks, like it or not. (I need to start doing this when I'm on a trip and tandem rowing.)

I've never bought anything from Jamestown, so I have no perspective on dealing with them. I would bet that if I'd bought an oarlock from Fisheries here in Seattle, and it broke a year later, then they'd replace it. Two years later? Maybe, but I bet they would.

What is the life expectancy of a well-used oarlock? Anybody?

[peter radclyffe]

Bullfeathers!
A rowlock should not fail in use and if one did, the manufacturer should replace it.

Several years ago, I got from Jamestown a very poorly made pair of bronze Buck-Algonquin rowlocks. They were returned.

ive always had good results with j.d,s fastenings, www.patience,it it sounds like a bad batch, they should replace it, & change the quality control

[Chip-skiff]

I only use oar locks with a 5/8" shaft. Harder to find. . .

Actually, 5/8" shaft oarlocks are the standard for whitewater rafts and can be found at rafting shops and suppliers such as Northwest River Supply: http://www.nrsweb.com

My favorites are Sawyer Cobra oarlocks, for their robust construction and smooth rowing action. They come in both 1/2 inch and 5/8 inch shafts. I got mine from Duckworks: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware...olcm/index.htm

[Bobcat]

Snip

What is the life expectancy of a well-used oarlock? Anybody?

I suspect the life expectancy of a well-manufactured oarlock to be measured in decades.

We have some oarlocks that have been in the family at least fifty years

[Doug Hamilton]

http://www.duck-trap.com/oarlocks&sockets.html

Made in U.S.A.

[Rick in Pender Harbour]

Interesting that you had ring type oarlocks break on you. I have a pair of cosine wherries that I rent out in Pender Harbour, and after 3 years, one of the oarlocks has broken, but all of them are bent out board. I can't imagine what the customers do to them (many have never rowed before) but the problem seems to be universal. Someone suggested that I buy stronger oarlocks but I suspect that then the boats would suffer.

best rgds

Rick

[Lew Barrett]

Most of the oarlocks out there would be chinese bronze... very poor castings.... Port Townsend would be the real deal

That's almost certainly true, especially the PT Foundry part, but Buck Algonquin was, I thought, still casting from their old patterns here in the USA. Maybe they took it offshore, but that would be a recent change, say in the last few years. Frankly, I'm always surprised (when I look) to find they are still in business with a broad catalog. But I was always inclined to trust their products. Maybe that time has passed.

the Duck Trap stuff looks nice. Thanks.

[py]

"Not a failed product, they are cast and they do break"? What errant nonsense. Not fit for purpose, in Oz this would be a breach of the Trade Practices Act. Its also willingly and knowingly placing their customer's lives in danger. What if you'd been a little way offshore, rowing home against a stiff breeze? Do these carry a warning-"not to be used for rowing"?Jeeeez!!

[Yeadon]

"Not a failed product, they are cast and they do break"? What errant nonsense. Not fit for purpose, in Oz this would be a breach of the Trade Practices Act. Its also willingly and knowingly placing their customer's lives in danger. What if you'd been a little way offshore, rowing home against a stiff breeze? Do these carry a warning-"not to be used for rowing"?Jeeeez!!

Well said ... though in a pinch you could fashion something sort of loop with a bit of line to keep moving.

Eric Hvalsoe and I launched at the same time last year to go to the CWB wooden boat festival. It's a bit of a row across the lake, and for some reason after I'd left the dock I noticed I was wayyyyyy out front. This is rare. Later, he told me that he'd forgotten his oarlocks at home. I guess he'd been working on the brightwork and taken them off. Instead of a 15 mile round trip, he worked out some sort of loop and rowed across the lake. Good show, I thought.

[Gold Rock]

"They are cast and they do break"? Oh man... True, crappy castings break. Crappy forgings break. Parts machined from crappy billet break. Send 'em back.

[Candyfloss]

I'm with Py on this one. In N.Z. a product has to be "fit for it's intended purpose". In other words you can't sell rubbish without specificly stating that it is rubbish. Caveat Emptor. (is that the right spelling?). I was considering importing some stuff from these guys. Thanks for the heads up.

[peter radclyffe]

I suspect the life expectancy of a well-manufactured oarlock to be measured in decades.

We have some oarlocks that have been in the family at least fifty years

i agree , whoever sells you oarlocks is responsible for your life

[vkanthak]

I want to thank everyone for the large number of replies. In reading them, I think the consensus is that no, they should not fail and yes that Jamestown should stand behind their products.

Personally, I think they are cheap castings. I plan on following up with Jamestown on this problem.

In follow up to some of the questions asked...

Yes the oarlocks match the sockets. They were installed per the design for the Norwegian Pram in Gardner's book.

When I first received the sockets and the oarlocks, I noticed that one of the sockets was so poorly finished that the shaft would not fit into the opening. I guess this should have been a clue. Jamestown did replace the defective socket.

again... thanks for your feedback.


Vince

[James McMullen]

I think you just had bad luck twice in a row. Now that your bad luck's all used up, quick, go buy a lotto ticket!

Use your winnings to buy a spare set of oarlocks to keep with you.

[John Meachen]

There used to be a local builder of small boats who proudly stated that there were no cast fittings in their boats.

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Well a year is a bit of time in normal retailspeak, but I certainly agree that Jamestown is out of line. Shame on them. My Hvalsoe 16 was built for the origianl client in 2001, the original oarlocks are just fine. I grease the oarlocks before a serious outing. Fisheries currently carries two versions of the same (originally) Buck Algonquin horned oarlock, 1/2" shaft. The BA stamp is still there. They are not %100 as clean as I would like, but at least one of them appears to be a reasonable quality product. Uncoubtedly both these manufacturers are offshore. If they break prematurely, I will hear about it from my clients and replace them. Strangely, I find the 1/2" Perko bronze socket to be very good quality.

[vkanthak]

Again, I want to thank everyone who took the time to reply to my original post. Because of the high level of response to the post, I thought that I would give an update to the current state of the affair.

I contacted Jamestown via email. Below is the text of the message:

After receiving your reply I decided to do a reality check on how often these things really do break.

I posted my question on a Wooden Boat forum. If you are interested in the views of many in your customer base, please check out this link:

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/show...=1#post2244264

In looking over the postings, I believe that the consensus is "NO" they should not break (if they are a quality product) and the "YES" your company should stand behind the products that you sell.

At this point, I am asking for a full refund on the price of these two sets of oarlocks. I do not want replacements. I am concerned with the quality of the product. I will buy replacements from a different comany. I need to have some assuance of a high level of casting quality.

I you wish, I can return the two sets of oarlocks... two broken and two intact.

Please advise.


There was a significant delay in the reply but eventually I received this message from the Jamestown Customer Service rep:

I thank you for waiting and giving me the opportunity to respond, I do apologize for the delay, we have had unexpected absences for the past few weeks. We have always helped our customers and try to maintain their loyalty. When a product fails after this long of a period, it is more a manufacturers issue and any replacement would be handled through them. They would be able to determine if it was a quality issue and if so, replace as they see fit.



Today I replied with this follow up message:

Hello,

Thank you for your explanation of the delay in your replies to my email.

I can understand your response that this issue is one that needs to be taken up with the actual manufacturer of the product rather then you, the distributor. It is consistent with your company warranty. I would appreciate it if you could provide me with the contact information for the manufacturer. I will then pursue a remedy with them directly.

However... I would like to elaborate on this problem/situation as it relates to your company.

Your statement that this product is cast and sometimes fails is inconsistent with the expectations of a product that is a quality cast and made with a material that has the proper alloy composition. I believe the common wisdom expressed on the Wooden Boat forum posts supports this belief.

It is fortunate that these incidents (I had two separate failures) did not result in a safety problem or damage to my vessel. If that did happen, there would have been a whole different tone to this exchange.

Anyone who watches the nightly news is aware of the problems with sub-standard products coming out of China (where I believe these were manufactured.) I would be willing to bet that a simple metallurgical analysis of the metal composition would show that they are a sub-standard product that is subject to early failure.

If in fact, your company was aware of this early failure issue (as your "unfortunately they do break" reply implies) and did nothing to recall the problem product, you become as culpable as the company that manufactured the item in question. If a law suit had resulted, you can bet that both your company and the manufacturer would be prominently listed in the V. Kanthak VS ??? in the header of the resulting legal documents.

In closing, I would like to reaffirm my request for the corporate contact information for the manufacturer of these items so that I can contact them directly on this problem.



I am now awaiting a reply from Jamestown.

If anyone reading this post purchased oar locks from from Jamestown in the past few years, I would suggest that you look at them carefully. Mine has a "CW" cast into them. A warning... a simple visual inspection would probably not revel a problem. Cast metal tend to fail catastrophically rather then gradually.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
I wish you luck. I know I'm coming to this late but here are three comments, for what they're worth --

• You should not have to deal with the manufacturers, whoever they are. The distributor gets a margin for handling the product, they're the ones who sold them to you, and they're the ones who should replace them for you. If there's an issue between them and the manufacturer over the quality of the product, that's exactly where it lies -- between them and the manufacturer. They should sort the problem out for you, not require you to sort it out for them.

• I personally have used the same pair of rowlocks on the same dinghy for ten years with not the slightest hint of a problem. I expect them to outlast me by several decades.

• We sell bronzeware, including rowlocks, to mainly local Australian customers. We don't make it, we're agents for the foundry (which is a completely independent company.) We get a trade discount, we add a margin to cover our cost, our marketing for them, some profit, and (importantly) for dealing with the customers on their behalf. We also cover the bronzeware with our own ten-year, 100%, guarantee -- if it breaks within ten years for any reason whattever we'll replace it at our cost or refund the purchase price, whichever the customer wants. This is a measure of the faith we have in the product. (I might say that in all the years we've handled this company's bronzeware we have never had to make good under the guarantee.) If we suspected the products were dodgy we would not handle them. It's as simple as that.

In my view you should retract your last letter to the distributor and remind them that it was them you dealt with when you bought the product, and it's to them you look for redress because the product was faulty. Where they source their supplies is their business and nothing whatever to do with you -- which of course is why you pay them a premium on the purchase. Of course they would like nothing better to wash their hands of this. You should not let them -- they're accountable to you, the customer, and in my view you should hold them to account.

Mike

[Candyfloss]

With you all the way, Mike.

[jackster]

vkanthak,
If you would post the contact information here , I will contact Jamestown to tell them how dissapointed I am in the condescending way you are being delt with and how it will negatively effect who I will do business with with my next purchase.
Couldn't hurt.

[Bruce Hooke]

For what its worth:

The CW cast into the oarlocks means they were made by Wilcox Crittenden, which last I knew was in Middletown, CT. They are one of the largest wholesalers of bronze marine hardware and the like around. There website should be http://www.wilcox-crittenden.com but for some reason this site re-directs to http://www.thetford.com/ If you want to avoid getting Wilcox Crittenden oarlocks again you will need to shop carefully because they seem to be the "default" oarlocks carried by many retailers.

Second FWIW...it is fairly common in the US for retailers in the US to say that after a certain period of time, for warranty work you need to talk to the manurfacturer. Whether this is right or wrong is another question but it is certainly not uncommon.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
Bruce, that sort of waiver-of-warranty wouldn't be legal here. But if the fact that the warranty was to be waived after a limited time was explicitly made clear to the purchaser prior to purchase, then perhaps Vkanthak can now only do what he is doing.

For me, such a condition would be quite unethical (whatever the legality) and would probably be sufficient reason for me to buy elsewhere.

Mike

[S B]

Might be interesting to send the oarlock for analysis, just to see what it is actually made of. Got any friends working in foundry labs?

[TimH]

Amazing! I row with an older pair of Wilcox Crittenden oarlocks I got from Jamestown like 25 years ago. I guess I take them for granted because the thought of an oarlock breaking never crossed my mind.

[islandteak]

A month ago I bought new bronze oarlocks for my 10 ft. tender, as I somehow lost the old set.
I like to row and put maybe 20 kilometers of use to it (not at one time) and the shaft broke.
Luckily for me the sea was calm and at close to slack tide. The company gave me another pair and I now always keep at spare in the tender. Shouldn't have to, but we now have to. Don't blame the Chinese, it is us demanding cheaper goods. They just give us the best price for crap.

...Ken

[Eric Hvalsoe]

I don't think the CW means a damn thing. I suspect Whatever Wilcox/ Crittenden was, has nothing to do with the products currently available with this stamp. It's offshore, as they say.
That is a BS, lame ass response from Jamestown. The comments from down under seem common sense to my ear. I hope I don't have the same problem with Fisheries Supply hear in Seattle. I have bought Chinese product with the CW stamp, in fact with a Thetford label. Seemed like a reasonable casting, but if there are problems I'll be sure to pass the information along.

[Lew Barrett]

In respect to retailers passing the buck to manufacturers, I'd say this is not the policy (in general) of brick and mortar stores in the USA, but that the proliferation of the "best price internet deal" has made this tactic more common among the stupider resellers. A good, reliable reseller will always take responsibility for a defective product because he will recognize that his name is tied to the sale as well as the manufacturer's. The tactic has become common in competitive arenas, like cameras and consumer electronics. Even there, the better outfits will maintain a decent level of service along with their competitive prices. But I never expect the best service and the best price from the same reseller.

I wouldn't expect lousy service of Jamestown, who charge a full mark up on most of the items they sell, as I rarely see true bargains from them. And equally, Fisheries, who are very competitive, are equally service oriented (most times) and I would expect them to take the product back and exchange it or return money and apologize into the bargain.

As Eric says, the "WC" no longer means anything; the good name of the brand is likely history. I cast my "WC" oarlocks myself, so if they fail, I have nobody to blame but myself (and Sam J!).

[TimH]

Lock away your quality things, because quality is rapidly becoming a rarity.

[keith66]

I would suggest that on a tender or any other boat subject to hard use get a set of good old Galvanised Iron rowlocks, they ain't so pretty but i never heard of one breaking!

[CundysHarbor]

The load on an oarlock just is not very great, especially in a pram! I have never broken an oarlock and had never heard of anyone breaking one until this thread appeared. I have not bought oarlocks since 1970 and they were Wilcox Crittenden.
Dave

[vkanthak]

vkanthak,
If you would post the contact information here , I will contact Jamestown to tell them how dissapointed I am in the condescending way you are being delt with and how it will negatively effect who I will do business with with my next purchase.
Couldn't hurt.

My most recent email had to be sent to Jamestown's general contact address: info@jamestowndistributors.com

The email that I sent to the address that I had been using (several times) for a specific employee bounced back as undeliverable because there was no such address.

Interesting, hey?

[vkanthak]

A month ago I bought new bronze oarlocks for my 10 ft. tender, as I somehow lost the old set.
I like to row and put maybe 20 kilometers of use to it (not at one time) and the shaft broke.
Luckily for me the sea was calm and at close to slack tide. The company gave me another pair and I now always keep at spare in the tender. Shouldn't have to, but we now have to. Don't blame the Chinese, it is us demanding cheaper goods. They just give us the best price for crap.

...Ken

I will also carry a spare set from now on.

I am not blaming the Chinese for this problem( if in fact that is where they were made.) Properly made cast bronze will be a good product no made who pours the metal and a bad product can be made by anyone... anywhere.

I can say this... I do not want "cheaper" products (this goes to quality) but I want less expensive products (good products at a lower cost.)

I will pay the extra $10 to get a set that will last forever.

[NYCKiwi]

Given the poor response from Jamestown, I think I'll shop elsewhere. Thanks for the heads-up Vkanthak.