Neighbors Give Boat Restorer a Hard Time

[Jay Greer]

Interesting information. Thanks for setting the record straight. It looks like it had always been there. When Dennis said he had restored it I thought that it was done in situ.
Jay

Jay Dennis got that barn from the OC fair grounds , and reassembled it on that property . That was another war very cool barn

[Jay Greer]

Side bar here. I have a small garage shop in my home in Newport Beach. My house was built in 1912 and was the original storage shack for tools used during the building of the first wooden bridge to Balboa Island. It is a true "shot gun" beach cottage. Although my neigbors have come and gone over the years and built up modern high rise around the little house. Passers by always comment that of all the houses in the area they would vote to live in the Toyon Boat Club which is mine and my wife's. There is a sign on the roof that gives the ivy covered cottage it's name. I have always been the guy who fixes broken boats, parts and toys for my neighbors and their kids. I also maintain my H28 "Bright Star" using the garage shop just as Dennis uses his barn.
Four years ago my neighbor across the alley converted the second floor of his garage into an appartment. The first tennent was a friendly guy that would hold conversations with me from his porch that is across from my shop. His stay was short lived as the rent went up beyond his reach. Next came a married couple with a designer dog and a cat. As they moved in, we were putting a new roof on our house and I was repairing "Bright Star's" dinghy in the fenced area behind my garage; an area that can only be seen from the porch of the apartment. As I was putting my tools away in the late afternoon a policeman came to the alley gate and told me that he had recieved a noise complaint and that I could be cited for creating a public nuisance. I was dumbfounded and said that I thought he was kidding and that I had been working in the same manner for nearly fifty years on week ends and after getting home from my daily job. No said the officer there is a real complaint. Next morning as I started working at 8 AM while the roofers were also doing their thing. Another noise complaint was made. Then there were complaints for my working on the weekend. In fact every time I fired up a power tool this woman would complain. I really was getting edgy but kept my kool. The woman had a reputation for not getting along with neighbors in other areas where she had lived in the past. The poor animals were house bound and had to use the second floor balcony for a head. Usually in the morning she would run a hose from the kitchen and rinse the droppings and urin through the drain where the sewage would splatter on the alley. One morning the landlord was standing under the scupper as she flooded him with pet piss and poop. Since he had no idea of the pets being kept in the apartment, this was grounds for an immediate eviction which happened almost instantly.
Now, here is the hanger! They rented another apartment a few blocks away and after the moving van had left and they were settling in to their new digs a bulldozer arrived and proceeded to flatten the house next door! The construction of the new house next to them drove them nuts for the next year and a half, every day. They had signed a long term lease and the land lord held them to it.
Sweet retribution wasn't it?
Jay

[troutman]

It's funny but when your a child of the 60's you hate to think of yourself as "the man". Then someone moves in next door and it becomes apparent that he plans to leave the 40 foot Winnebago
Right up against your driveway all winter. So you call the town, check the ordinance and Get him cited so he has to move it and pay storage. It's simple....it's the law and Jefferson said. "no man is above the law". you want to live in the woods.....move to the woods.

[ramillett]

Jay I can't imagine someone having a eye sore in front of there house in Newport Beach



my daily driver for awhile

[Ian McColgin]

troutman is right about simple. One simple is that land use and property rights are not just any whim of the owner - can't make a factory in a residential zone - but also that new regulations don't oblige major changes of existing uses. For examply, new set-back rules will affect new construction but if you built when the rule was 20' and the rule is now 30', you will not be required to move your house ten feet.

That's why I asked about the taking issue. Big boat repair seems to have been an approved activity when Dennis started, though given the sloppiness of the current decisions I would not hang my privates on that without deep investigation. Non-permanent structures and uses - which this clearly is - often have, should have, or gain after the start some sort of time limits. It's also clear that over the past couple of years that the issue with the non-maratime neighbors has festered that the city has made some compromise effort to give time but also to give the neighbor a horizon of relief.

So, even though Dennis says he got all the approvals way back when, that's far far far from an airtight right. The project has obviously taken far longer than anticipated due to health and while the neighbors and town might be expected to be a little sympathetic, they may also be looking at this as a situation that will never go away and become even greater torment should Dennis die without completing the job.

It's a wretched shame that whether because Dennis does not work well with others or some other reason, there's not a way to have fundraising to strap and stabilize the frames and rent a lot where the project can take whatever time it must, perhaps with more hands involved. I happen to be morally on Dennis's side, I am not convinced he has a perfect legal case and I'm even less convinced that he has a realistic work plan. He's clearly doing the very best he can, but the job seems eternal.

[Stevebazz]

Hey. Imagine where we'd all be if Noah's neighbours didn't like the boat in his front yard.

[gazzer]

Jay I can't imagine someone having a eye sore in front of there house in Newport Beach



my daily driver for awhile

Don't know what it is, but I love the color.

My house, when we bought it 20 years ago, backed up to 17 acres of mature pines and other trees. The neighbor who owned it financed his retirement by selling off 14 acres, upon which 50 new houses were built. So now I have some backyard neighbors who seem to change every few years. I have often wondered whether my shop activities bugged them - no complaints as of yet, though. I reckon their barking dogs even things out. I did have a complaint early on from the new HOA about rain water draining from my property onto a few adjoining properties. I told them that water always drained that way through a natural swale and mentioned that early on in the planning process, when the developer met with existing neighbors, he had recognized the drainage area and stated his intent to leave those lots natural. That seemed to redirect their issue back to the cause.

The darn thing about this is that despite how long you were here, the neighbors live in the present and will not defer to your seniority. Best to do what you can to get along.

-G

[orbb]

Per Ian

I am not convinced he has a perfect legal case and I'm even less convinced that he has a realistic work plan. He's clearly doing the very best he can, but the job seems eternal

And that may be the key. If the process for completion and removal of the boat has a fixed duration, then a Court may allow him to keep the boat there until that point. If it is open-ended or undefinable, then he might be in trouble.

[Jay Greer]

He does have a plan for completion of the boat. He did receive legal permission to place the boat on his property in order to execute the repairs. He did have the city building deptment direct the placing of the boat on his property. He does have documentation to the fact of all. The city has now reneged and rescinded their agreement leaving Dennis caught between a rock and a hard place! Dennis was diagnosed with cancer well after he started the project and the boat was in place. All he is asking for is enough time to get the boat in safe condition to be moved. Unfortunatly it seems that this will be a court case. In truth, Dennis is better off working on his boat than fighting city hall! The sooner he gets it done, the sooner it can be moved!
Again, if anyone in the area want's to help with the repairs, Dennis would welcome your assistance.
Jay

[Sailor]

I wish I was there to help. It would be a greatlearning experience for anyone. I read the article in our host's magazine about his schooner that he built in the FRONT yard of his home. WOW what an undertaking. To be able to work for/with/under a guy like that? Sign me up. Too bad he's on the other side of the continent from me.

[Jay Greer]

When he built his schooner, the locals were greatly in favor of and fascinated by the project. When launching time came, it was shown on national television. Magazine and press articles were written lauding him as a true Renneissance man. Dennis and I had the pleasure of working for a local yard where the power yacht "Mojo" was built. That was back in 1960. We have been pals ever since. Dennis is a quiet man who has more wooden boat building knowledge and history in his head than most libraries have in their nautical sections. It is upsetting to most of us who really know him to see him being waterboarded in this manner.
A case in point of public opinon going illogical was brought to me a few years ago by another of my own neighbors who bought the house next to me and razed it in order to build a new house. They didn't like the wooden fence that seperates our properties and wanted me to go in on a replacement made of concrete blocks. Now, I happen to like the look of my wooden fence and I like the fact that it takes up less space on my property line than a block wall would. Houses in our area sit so close to the line that walking space is really restricted. I awoke one morning to find that their contractor was tearning down my fence with out my permission! I had repeadedly offered to go in with my neighbor on a new wooden fence but they refused saying that They preferred masonry. Now mine was being torn out without my permission! Certainly, words were exchanged over that issue. It was resolved by the neighbor putting up their own wall on their side of the line. One can never understand the logic of some people! Shortly after that they were on me to cut down a tree that blocked their view to the West from their second floor bedroom window. I told them that the tree was planted from a seed brought from China by my father when he was there in 1946 and that there are only three such trees known to be in the US. I also pointed out that the tree was there long before they bought their property and designed their new house. If they had issues with the tree they should have
had their arcitect allow for it in the planning. That was fifteen years ago and we still don't speak much. The tree is still there! I do trim it each year as to allow them a reasonable amount of view. I feel I am doing the best I can considering the cercumstances.
Jay

[orbb]

A case in point of public opinon going illogical was brought to me a few years ago by another of my own neighbors who bought the house next to me and razed it in order to build a new house. They didn't like the wooden fence that seperates our properties and wanted me to go in on a replacement made of concrete blocks. Now, I happen to like the look of my wooden fence and I like the fact that it takes up less space on my property line than a block wall would. Houses in our area sit so close to the line that walking space is really restricted. I awoke one morning to find that their contractor was tearning down my fence with out my permission! I had repeadedly offered to go in with my neighbor on a new wooden fence but they refused saying that They preferred masonry. Now mine was being torn out without my permission! Certainly, words were exchanged over that issue. It was resolved by the neighbor putting up their own wall on their side of the line. One can never understand the logic of some people!

I have handled a lot of lawsuits in my 20+ years of practicing, from small matters to wrongful death suits, and the most contentious suits are always over property. I have had clients come to blows and get arrested over very small chunks of Appalachia, relatively speaking. People lose their minds over real estate.

[Breakaway]

Neighbor issues are tough. The property line on one side of my house is where I store my boat. My neighbor planted arbor vitae shrubs along the line. No problem. Now, having grown, these extend 3 and 4 feet onto my property,constricting the space for working on that side of the boat. So I trimmed them back 2-feet--within my rights since you can cut anything overhanging the line according to code--but still clearly "over" on my side. What a ruckus he made! And to top it off, on his side, his garage runs along the hedge, so he cant even see the area I pruned from his house.

Kevin

[ramillett]

Neighbors are fun , I have one I have not talked to in 25 years , over a fence too

[Jay Greer]

There was a time that all of our neighbors spoke fluent wooden boat. Even their dogs where friendly!
Jay

[wizbang 13]

bastids

[Mad Scientist]

Back in the 60's, there were very few fences in my neighbourhood, and everybody got along well enough. And, happily, there aren't many fences there today, either.
IMHO, we need more unfenced neighbourhoods - seems to make folks just a bit friendlier, somehow. My $0.02

Tom

[Pericles]

Breakaway,

In the UK, we have the right to trim back the overhanging trees etc., with one little extra consideration. All the trimming must be offered to the owner(s) of the trees, which theoretically solves the disposal problem as well. It is sensible to negotiate with one's neighbour as well. So, far all my neighbours have been friendly.

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1018&

[Duncan Gibbs]

Our nearest owner/neighbours are about 200 metres away: The best kind really!

[Jay Greer]

According to Dennis, the neighbor was quite cordial in the beginning. Dennis even put a gate in his back fence so the fellow could come over and visit or even help. I have been told that the new wife got into the act and considers the boat to be an insult to her view.
Jay

[Thad]

Over the years there have been a couple of challenges to the use of the property where my shop sits. The first that I know of was before I arrived but I have been told that it was the wife of a couple that bought a house in sight, just up the street. At the public hearing on the case the sentiment was strongly in favor of the boats, sawmill, fish truck and shanties. I believe divorce followed soon after leaving the husband with the view, a good guy. The more recent challenge was from a newcomer in a house more than 1/4 mile away around the corner, likewise laughed out of the hearing.

[Jay Greer]

Thad,
I see you live back where wooden boat is still spoken. Marblehead is one of my favorite places!
Jay

[Thad]

Live and work hard by Redd's Pond. Cheers!

[orbb]

Article in the LA Times about this issue:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,4133338.story

[Duncan Gibbs]

I've emailed the city manager and both of Newport Beach's Chambers of Commerce informing them that if the Shawnee is damaged or broken up to move her the city are no better than the Taliban destroying the Buddha of Bamiyan and the Newport Beach's reputation will be permanently impugned for the classic/wooden boat community internationally. Thread of same down in Misc.

[Ian McColgin]

I admire Holland's spirit and know projects like this can take many many years but the question arises, since he appears to be working alone on limited resourses and in imperfect health, is he actually saving Shawnee or is all this while on the hard simply his refusing to bury the dead?

[Hunky Dory]

I live in a residential nieghborhood and operate a home auto repair business against zoning laws. I operate with a I live in a glass house attitude. The whole nieghborhood is very friendly we all know and speak to each other and know each others kids and dogs names. I think people just need to get out and talk to each other about issues. I keep my yard neat and hide anything that is apart, I have a new nieghbor across the street that got mad about someone turning in his driveway. I dug him a mess of clams and apologized, now I tell everyone that comes to the shop no turning across the street and he is happy with that. Most of the nieghbors are happy to have someone at home keeping an eye on whats going on all day not to mention a place to get their car fixed without getting rides to and from. They are a big source of referrals for me also.

[Peter Kalshoven]

I have a neighbor who is a really good guy, so I ignore the fact that he cranks up and idles his motorcycle at 5:30 in the morning to go to work. Under my bedroom window. All winter long. Never have said a word.
My dogs barked in the backyard after 9 pm a few weeks ago. His wife jumped all over me at the store to keep them inside.
I smiled and wobbled my head and walked away. Some things are not worth the fuss.

[orbb]

Looks like this has hit a critical point:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...ship-yard.html

[Willin']

Sounds like a good case for Mr. Bray's Save A Boat column!

[M. J. Notigan]

"Put on your slippers and sit by the fire.
You've reached your top and you just can't get any higher
You're in your place and you know where you are......In your Shangri-la.
Sit back in your old rocking chair.....You need not worry, you need not care.
You can't go anywhere.

And all the houses in the street have got a name
Cos all the houses in the street they look the same
Same chimney pots, same little cars, same window panes
The neighbors call to tell you things that you should know
They say their lines, they drink their tea and then they go
They tell your business in another shangri-la
The gas bills and the water rates and payments on the car
Too scared to think about how insecure you are
Life ain't so happy in your little shangri-la......"
.........Ray Davies/The Kinks...........Shangri-La

Could not be reminded more of the above '70's song by the Kinks then by reading of this sad situation. What can one man do when the machinery of government and "law" use it's considerable powers against him? Dalia Lugo and her type are what Ray Davies had in mind when he penned Shangri-La so long ago. Our country is becoming populated by whole neighborhoods of Shangri-La's......NIMBY's.......no one knowing who their neighbors are anymore.......Planned community boards policing neighborhoods for illegal flying American Stars and Stripes.......garbage cans put out at "improper" times........washing of one's own automobiles in their own driveways.........passenger trains horns at grade crossings "disturbing the peace"...........unable to perform an oil change on their own car, unable to find the oil dipstick.........hiring out someone to walk your dog........in short, imposing their miseries upon their fellow neighbors. In every neighborhood lives a Dalia Lugo........ My best goes out to Mr Holland and I hope somehow common sense and fairness prevails, but in my mind I think we can all read between the lines how this will play out since government has reared it's claws.......

Take Care,
Mike

[wizbang 13]

Dalia Lugo vodoo doll?

[DavidC]

. . . I have a new neighbor across the street that got mad about someone turning in his driveway. . . .

This is something I have never understood; what is the big %^&% deal of someone pulling into my driveway to turn around. As long as they stay off the lawn, what's the harm?

[Garret]

+1,000

I am enough of a "rebel" to where I will choose the driveway that asks me not to over the one that says nothing......

[Tom Wilkinson]

From the article:
"Holland checked with Newport Beach city staff before he moved Shawnee, who found nothing in city codes that would keep him from keeping the boat next to his home for up to two years, Wood said."

It's all in the zoning.

It is interesting to me that the original article lists nothing illegal for "up to two years". It has been six now with no real end in sight.

[RFNK]

I have a neighbor who is a really good guy, so I ignore the fact that he cranks up and idles his motorcycle at 5:30 in the morning to go to work. Under my bedroom window. All winter long. Never have said a word.
My dogs barked in the backyard after 9 pm a few weeks ago. His wife jumped all over me at the store to keep them inside.
I smiled and wobbled my head and walked away. Some things are not worth the fuss.

There"s a great movie that I'm sure you'd enjoy, if you haven't already seen it - World's Fastest Indian

Those of us testing our neighbours with front yard boat restoration projects can easily forget how lucky we are to have great neighbours, as we do. I hope things work out for Dennis.

Rick

[Oldad]

That is one reason I would never live in a housing development. Got to have a shred of freedom. I have a canoe, dingy and 22' outboard in my yard and work on boats at all times. Neighbors do not say a word except maybe, "cool boat" . Might not always be like that though.
Oldad

[Brian Palmer]

If you check out the address on google maps (http://g.co/maps/3ev6s), that boat's stern is not really close to the neighbors house. It may be visible from the neighbors bedroom, but it is not "blocking the view".

Brian

[Tom Wilkinson]

I guees thats a matter of how one defines not that close. Looks like less than 30' to the windows to mee, and it's taller than the barn. i would say that it certainly is close and would be blocking some views. But I don't have any neighbors closer than 100 yds.

[ramillett]

Looks like Denis is in trouble

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/...t-of-his-yard/

[Rich Jones]

I live in a residential nieghborhood and operate a home auto repair business against zoning laws. I operate with a I live in a glass house attitude. The whole nieghborhood is very friendly we all know and speak to each other and know each others kids and dogs names. I think people just need to get out and talk to each other about issues. I keep my yard neat and hide anything that is apart, I have a new nieghbor across the street that got mad about someone turning in his driveway. I dug him a mess of clams and apologized, now I tell everyone that comes to the shop no turning across the street and he is happy with that. Most of the nieghbors are happy to have someone at home keeping an eye on whats going on all day not to mention a place to get their car fixed without getting rides to and from. They are a big source of referrals for me also.

During the 32 years that I lived on Long Island, NY, I had a neighbor down the street who had a part-time home auto repair business at his house working mostly on muscle cars. Also against code, as was the huge garage he put on his small piece of property. Every weekend for 32 years, he would rev the engines to incredible levels that could wake the dead. I never complained although it would bother me on otherwise peaceful Sunday afternoon.
Then again, I spent four years building my 20' strip-planked pilot sloop in my backyard, making all sorts of noise at all hours of the day. My neighbors were kind enough not to complain.

[SchoonerRat]

I don't want to queer the deal by spilling beans that shouldn't be spilled yet - I see no mention of this by our resident Newport Beach crowd, so without mentioning any details, it seems that Dennis has been offered a deal that he couldn't turn down; and has decided to move Shawnee to a more appropriate location for the completion of her refit.

There's a lot of work needed before she is stable enough to move. I have no idea if it will be possible to move her before the $1,000 a day fines start piling up, but it looks much better for the chances of Shawnee ending up back in the water, rather than in the OC dump.

How 'bout it Jay? Has word of this gotten up north yet? I expected to see a post from you when I got home and checked the forum. Confirmation from you will make me very happy for Dennis.

[Ian McColgin]

Let us hope and hope. Moving her looks like a major engineering challenge.

[orbb]

Another story in the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,3292715.story

[Ian McColgin]

That picture shows that Shawnee is more dismantled and more fragile than I'd thought. I don't know how you'd ever move her, much less move and keep in order all those bits of wood.