White cedar sapwood

[tapsnap]

I've just come back from the sawmill with a truck load of white cedar that I will be using for a boat maybe a year from now. It's mostly 6/4 10" - 20" wide, 10' - 12' long, straight grained and 90% knot free. Because it's still green I got the whole lot for $150. I am feeling very content right now. After this post I will go and paint the ends and stack it on the shady side of the barn. My question is about the sapwood. Is it usable for boats or will it rot and attract insects like most other sapwood?

[Capt Nat]

...what species of white cedar is it?

[BrianY]

...and what sawmill did you get it from? (enquiring minds want to know!)

[Capt Nat]

...come clean TAPSNAP...there aren't that many species of white cedar to choose from...

...or sawmills cutting "10"-20"" cedar boards I suspect...

[floatingkiwi]

Oh, you guys are flawless. Poor guy just wants to dry out his booty. Ha haa, oh man.Love it.

[Capt Nat]

...hey, we're just trying to help him out...besides floatingkiwi, you're too far away to care!

[tapsnap]

Relax guy's, I had been eying this log for about 3 months now, asking the sawyer each visit when he was going to cut it. Each time he would say " it's getting to the top of the list", but would never give me a day. This morning I got the call and I went over there immediately and I watched him cut it. We figured out the best way to cut it - turning it this way and that until the whole thing was done. I loaded everything onto my truck, paid him and drove back a happy man. The sawyer said he very occasionally gets a cedar log in but in the 40 years he has been doing this he hasn't seen one as clear as this.
Are you jealous yet?
Anyway, I'm not sure what kind of white cedar it is. The bark looked like juniper.
Actually, regarding what I said earlier - the trunk was about 20" in diameter at the base. What I ended up with is 16" boards and narrower . I didn't measure before I bragged.

[bob easton]

OK. So we in the great Northeast don't get to know the sawyer with the good deal. That's OK since it sounds like his one log is gone.

Now, back to the original question. The advice I got last year from Greg Rössell at the WoodenBoat School was to discard the sapwood. He was very adamant that it is not rot resistant. Greg's been building boats long enough to know. I'll trust that advice.

My experience is much less, not nearly long enough t see anything rot. However, I find it interesting to mill "Virginia White Cedar" (a Juniper) and find numerous beetle larvae in the sapwood.

Let's check back in about 10 years. In my current build I have two very small places where I've left a half-inch sliver of sapwood. We'll see how it fares.

So, how wide are the heartwood parts of those boards? I've been getting 4/4 14 foot flitches with 9-12 inches of heartwood for about $70 per flitch. Your purchase sounds like a very good deal. Good luck with it.

[Bob Smalser]

...20" wide....

It's Atlantic White Cedar and there is no reason to paint the ends on cedar. Just sticker it where it gets lots of airflow and protect the top layer from the sun.

And save the sapwood to make easels for your neighborhood school. Or something else. Just leave it out of the boat for the reasons stated.

[peter radclyffe]

OK. So we in the great Northeast don't get to know the sawyer with the good deal. That's OK since it sounds like his one log is gone.

Now, back to the original question. The advice I got last year from Greg Rössell at the WoodenBoat School was to discard the sapwood. He was very adamant that it is not rot resistant. Greg's been building boats long enough to know. I'll trust that advice.

My experience is much less, not nearly long enough t see anything rot. However, I find it interesting to mill "Virginia White Cedar" (a Juniper) and find numerous beetle larvae in the sapwood.

Let's check back in about 10 years. In my current build I have two very small places where I've left a half-inch sliver of sapwood. We'll see how it fares.

So, how wide are the heartwood parts of those boards? I've been getting 4/4 14 foot flitches with 9-12 inches of heartwood for about $70 per flitch. Your purchase sounds like a very good deal. Good luck with it.

ive been taught never to use it, but the danish guys i worked with on jeannie johnston use larch sap, & apart from this, those guys are great shipwrights, on the other hand a lot of spanish & italian builders use all sap, but those guys are animals, they'll plank up, no caulking seams, sap to bark & it attracts a flying woodworm called tarli, a new thing to me as if we dont have enough problems with keeping boats sound, the least we can do is not to treat sap as construction wood, a little 2-3% can be acceptable on the inside corner of heavy carvel frames, when its hard to find big enough timber, when its irrelevant to strength, but it must be red leaded or other preserver, but generally, i would not use it, & if your in doubt, cut 2 pieces of wood,same size, 1 of solid wood, 1 of sapwood, let them dry, then try to break them across a bench or your knee, the good wood should not break, unlike the sap, which may snap, then theres the longevity, sap is junk

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

Sapwood is NOT decay resistant in any species.

Andreas

[rob]

I do all my small boat planking in white cedar, the sap is worthless for boat work. I used to never bother trimming sap from the flitches untill spiling time. But over the past 4-5 years I have pulled a good number of boards that had borer damage. The little buggers would do their thing in the cambium untill all gone and then dive in to the sapwood, when they hit the heart they usually do a U-turn or expire but not before costing me 1/2-1" of additional lost material from both side of the flitch...that can be a significant loss on narow cedar boards. I suspect the problem boards came from logs that sat around for a spell in summer and allowed intital borer egg laying and growth, perhaps compounded by wetter summers that didn't allow the wood to drop moisture fast enough to kill the bugs off once sawn and it is clear the bulk of the wood damage occured after sawing (no exposed tunnells). These days I always at least peel the bark on the new stock and if any damage is visable I roughly slice off the sap with a quick pass on the band saw before stickering.