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Thread: L. Francis h.

  1. #246
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Monterey, ma
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    823

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Jay,

    The running back stays attached at the fractional jib tang look like a great idea. Where do you attach them at the bottom?

  2. #247
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Washington, DC
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    371

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Quote Originally Posted by tprice View Post
    Hi all,
    I wondered if anyone knows about what kind of relationship LFH may have had with Ray Hunt? Both being from Marblehead, innovative thinkers and fruitful designers, they certainly must have known each other and maybe were of similar creative natures. I suspect that they either liked each other or were enemies! (both being "characters, I think").
    On page 370 of "Boats with an Open Mind," Phil Bolger says:

    Nine years of sporadic ruminations, and some stimulation from would-be owners, led to what I boastfully named the Advanced Sharpie. (The design represented final emancipation from Howard Chapelle's tutelage and some justification of the great pains he took with my education. A lot of Ray Hunt's influence survived.) Those two, and Francis Herreshoff, shaped my style, which is ironic since they all despised each other. Hunt, who never knew that I existed, had the longest-lasting effect by the example he set of a technical open mind.
    Peter Belenky

  3. #248
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    BC Coast
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    3,963

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    A couple of people here have talked about the H28 being faster than the Rozinante. I have not sailed enough on the H28 to have an opinion. I'd guess that would be the case in a blow, but as designed I would expect Rozinante to be faster in light to moderate winds. I have seldom seen a Rozinante sporting a larger jib or genoa, or mizzen staysails. They pretty much always sail with the working rig as designed. Most H28s seem to have some additional sails to play with.
    I do remember the Rozinante having just a little more weather helm than was desired in certain conditions, like reaching in a strong breeze.
    I recal many years ago finding myself sailing alongside a Rozinante in a strong reaching breeze. I was sailing a Falmouth 26 gaff rigged cutter ( similar to a gaff rigged Virtue). We enjoyed pacing each other for a couple of miles. I was very impressed that my boat was keeping up, despite a slightly shorter waterline. Kotick was not a slow boat. After a while the Rosinante took in the mizzen and easily pulled away, probably most of a knot faster than I could get.

  4. #249
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
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    12,701

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Quote Originally Posted by seo View Post
    Hi Jay,
    I thought about changing my H28 to a single backstay with a bridle-I guess what you call a "split backstay" I experimented with it by slacking the backstays way off, and then putting a seizing around the pair of them in front of the mizzen. I even had the idea of a ring or pair of blocks that would travel up and down the pair of backstays, giving lots of leverage to tension the backstays. I'd seen that rig on a C&C, and thought it looked like the cat's meow.
    It didn't work for me. The legs of the bridle were right in the wrong place in relation to the humanoids with their silly heads and necks. After a couple of near-decapitations I went back to the standing backstays, which didn't cause trouble.
    I really like the sheave arrangement for the spectra backstays in the picture in post #243-very much like the sheave on the front of my boat's mizzen that turned the triatic stay.
    On our H28 the standing main backstays are located just as where Herreshoff indicated they should be which, lands them near the covering boards at the end of the cockpit combing. While, some high performance boats use adjustable main backs, on the H28 the added adjustment they afford does not, really, justify the effort. Ours are set at a tension that keeps the headstay tight enough to allow the balloon jib to work well in light airs. Once the wind pipes up, it is not advisable to fly it as it will overpower the boat and create a lot of weather helm. In addition, the original rig of the H28 does not have upper shrouds that lead all the way to the mast cap. For this reason, H28 masts often are broken from too much loading of the headstay. We find that the small 100% working jib is all that is needed under most sailing points on the wind. The helm then balances and the boat does not labor under too much press of sail.
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 07-03-2019 at 12:58 PM.

  5. #250
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Port Townsend WA
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    12,701

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Erkkinen View Post
    Jay,

    The running back stays attached at the fractional jib tang look like a great idea. Where do you attach them at the bottom?
    The running backs terminate on deck at the sheeting pad eye for the balloon jib/genoa. Although they are really not needed when the genoa is in use, we find that combining the sheet block and the running back on one point of attachment does not create a problem.
    Jay

  6. #251
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Newcastle, Australia
    Posts
    289

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Great thread! Thankyou. I'm very glad it was resurrected as I'd missed it.
    David and Cathy are off to visit Aunty Monica. They're sure to see their two cousins there, too.

  7. #252
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Belfast and Marshall Cove, Islesboro, Maine
    Posts
    1,929

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    In my experience, sailing an H-28 in casual brush-ups with Roz's is that the H-28 was faster in light-moderate air, and faster off the wind in a lot of breeze. The H-28 has enough bearing aft to allow her to lean on her quarter and scoot, which the Roz can't do. ON THE OTHER HAND, the Roz boats that I've sailed against will go to windward against a chop or short steep sea incredibly well. While the H-28 would be jerking your arm out of socket and drenching you with spray, the Roz would be riding the waves with remarkable grace, and weaving to windward without ever getting smacked in the face. Wonderful boat...

  8. #253
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Belfast and Marshall Cove, Islesboro, Maine
    Posts
    1,929

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Belenky View Post
    On page 370 of "Boats with an Open Mind," Phil Bolger says:

    Nine years of sporadic ruminations, and some stimulation from would-be owners, led to what I boastfully named the Advanced Sharpie. (The design represented final emancipation from Howard Chapelle's tutelage and some justification of the great pains he took with my education. A lot of Ray Hunt's influence survived.) Those two, and Francis Herreshoff, shaped my style, which is ironic since they all despised each other. Hunt, who never knew that I existed, had the longest-lasting effect by the example he set of a technical open mind.
    My guess is that since Hunt and LFH lived in the same small town, and were in the same line of work, they probably had nothing good to say about each other...

  9. #254
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    5,059

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Catriona is for sale again. I noticed her while engaged in one of my periodic searches for old classics for sale. I then searched for mention of her on the forum and stumbled on this really lovely thread. Thanks Jay, Seo, mmd, Dave, and others for contributing to a very enjoyable posting.
    Chuck Thompson

  10. #255
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
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    12,701

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Well, right now I am working on our H28, "Bright Star" between the El Nino rains, some hon-yak came down the Bay and managed to clobber us whilst we were tied up in our slip! The collision bent hell out of the bow pulpit, and ripped it out of the deck. Lots of @#%^&$ work that should not have been! Had to remove the ceiling out of the bow section to get to the underside of the overheads where the nuts for the pulpit fastenings are located. Some could not be reached at all and required Dutchmen to be let into the covering boards. Very time consuming! I would love to own "Catriona" but no longer have the space for her.
    Jay

  11. #256
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Port Ludlow,WA USA
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    I'm the "very nice man" who, with his wife and daughter, built the strip planked Marco Polo and had the unfinished boat afloat and for sale on Bainbridge Island, WA. I sold her to a guy who reportedly trucked her to Antioch, CA where she reposed under a large tree for some time. I wonder what happened to her thereafter? This is my first posting to this web site, but I will gladly respond to any contacts. I'm at fgruber@cablespeed.com.

    I have a nice letter from LFH and several from Peter Tangvald. Peter was building his boat at French Guiana in the late l960's when I was building the MP. We chatted back and forth while slaving away on our boats.

    Anyway, I built my MP hull slowly and carefully. I even hand beveled each strip rather than fall back on the hollow and round method, which I considered an inferior shortcut. Framing was white oak special ordered from Indiana. Planking was Alaska yellow cedar, clear throughout. Ordered burma teak for decking, but sold her before laying deck. Still have that teak. I sold her unfinished because it just wasn't in me to finish the big job.
    Last edited by Franz Gruber; 04-15-2016 at 02:25 AM. Reason: Had more to say.

  12. #257
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    47,363

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Franz, I don't know if it's possible but "Roll & Go" is strip built and of sufficient vintage. If she came over to our side. She was finished as LFH designed, engine up ahead of the main mast, turtle decks, and all. One cool thing was she had a PTO off the front of the engine that was shafted forward from a reduction gear to a truck differential and one axel, which lead up through the deck to a capstan. She sailed for years out of Provincetown.

    Roll& Go was badly damaged in Hurricane Bob and rebuilt at leisure near the Orleans town dump where I first met her. That owner died right about when done but his brother got her wet. Last I heard Roll&Go was in the hands of a knowledgeable and meticulous LFH fan whom I've met but whose name I am forgetting.

    G'luck

  13. #258
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Port Ludlow,WA USA
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Franz, I don't know if it's possible but "Roll & Go" is strip built and of sufficient vintage. If she came over to our side. She was finished as LFH designed, engine up ahead of the main mast, turtle decks, and all. One cool thing was she had a PTO off the front of the engine that was shafted forward from a reduction gear to a truck differential and one axel, which lead up through the deck to a capstan. She sailed for years out of Provincetown.

    Roll& Go was badly damaged in Hurricane Bob and rebuilt at leisure near the Orleans town dump where I first met her. That owner died right about when done but his brother got her wet. Last I heard Roll&Go was in the hands of a knowledgeable and meticulous LFH fan whom I've met but whose name I am forgetting.

    G'luck
    Thanks for the reply Ian. Yes, I did intend to mount the engine up forward, and I bored the shaft hole with this in mind. I also intended to include the turtlebacks at bow and stern. I built the major bulkheads of yellow cedar laid horizontally and edge spiked. The floor timber at each bulkhead was bored for a two inch valve so that I could duct a major leak to the engine room where I planned on having a large centrifugal pump driven off the engine. I think this distinguishes my MP from all others. Keel, stems and deck beams were of laminated white oak. If I were to do it again, I would skip the strip planking and go carvel.

  14. #259
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Port Ludlow,WA USA
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    I think I'm right. "Flam" is the opposite of tumblehome. Flare is like flam except that it is hollow in section. Some LFH designs had a slight flare in their forward sections. Plastic runabouts often have extreme flare forward. Most people say "flare" when they actually are looking at "flam". Put another way: "flare" is concave; "flam" is convex. Both are wider at the deckline than at the waterline. Tumblehome is exactly the opposite (narrower at the deckline).

    I built the MP hull you looked at on Bainbridge Island.

  15. #260
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    23,948

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    For what it's worth, both volumes of Roger Taylor's biography of LFH are now available. https://www.woodenboatstore.com/prod...designer-vol-1 https://www.woodenboatstore.com/prod...designer-vol-2

    A brief Roger Taylor intro: https://www.offcenterharbor.com/vide...-roger-taylor/

    His research confirms many of the entries in this long thread.

  16. #261
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    BC Coast
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    3,963

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    I just recently received my copy of the second volume. Great reading...still working through it, and re-reading portions.
    I think LFH considered the short gaffs as one of his particular innovations, for cruising boats, as he includes short gaffs on many of his later boats. Mr. Taylor does not write about this very much. Other than that I am well pleased.

  17. #262
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
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    12,701

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    Quote Originally Posted by HCR View Post
    "Frozen snot" --- that's how L. Francis Herreshoff is said to have characterized fiberglass boats.

    Is that true?

    When and where exactly did he use the term for the first time and in which context?

    Did he ever write about "frozen snot"?
    Actually L. Francis was too reserved in his writings to directly criticize fiberglass construction. I believe is comment was," Some workers don't like it and refer to it as "Frozen Snot"!
    Jay

  18. #263
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
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    12,701

    Default Re: L. Francis h.

    My son Jaime gets more time sailing on our H28 than we do as we spend as much time in Port Townsend as possible and the H28 is in California. For my birth day he presented me with a canvas print of this great day when he and his girl friend were close reaching at
    eight plus knots. The H28 can pick up her skirts and fly when she is allowed to do so. I do love the common sense approach to this design that is simple to build and fun to sail!
    Jay

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