Page 1 of 3 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 72

Thread: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Blacksburg, VA
    Posts
    429

    Default Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    My current boat has a balanced lug rig of about 65 square feet. Yard angle is about 45 degrees.

    I'm happy with how the rig sails, but when I drop it the sail and yard are all over the place. My main means of control is to hold onto the leech of the sail as I slack the halyard.

    I'm building a larger boat and am considering a larger balanced lug sail - perhaps 140 sq ft. The difficulty of handling the sail and yard will obviously increase if I build everything the same way.

    Does anyone have suggesions for ways to tame the yard and sail when dropping a balanced lug? It would be nice if I could get everything to come down more or less on top of the boom.
    I will beg you for advice, your reply will be concise, and I will listen very nicely and then go out and do exactly what I want! (Apologies to Lerner and Lowe.)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oslofjorden
    Posts
    695

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    lazy jacks?

    I think Romily has a ring running on the mast with a line to the foremost end of the yard that keeps it propperly raked. You can barely se it in this pic.
    Last edited by mizzenman; 04-20-2009 at 01:32 PM.
    Ragnar B.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,344

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Start with a simple parrel of some sort to keep the yard close to the mast at all times.



    or, you can also sometimes do it with the halyard


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,989

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Michael Storer's halyard system is similar to Todd's and comes from the 1890's sailing canoes.

    http://www.storerboatplans.com/GIS/GISRigging.html



    Brian

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oslofjorden
    Posts
    695

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    keyhavenpotter, do you know what system he uses to control the boom, is the down haul enough in it selfe?
    Ragnar B.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,989

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    This link covers the whole Goat Island Rigging guide

    http://www.storerboatplans.com/GIS/GISRigging.html

    Michael uses a square lashing to keep the boom close to the mast, not too tight to allow the boom to move to its correct position.



    and a downhaul to tension the luff, very important for good windward performance.



    Brian

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oslofjorden
    Posts
    695

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    thanks a lot!
    Ragnar B.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,636

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    For things are really gnarly, Phil Bolger set up a second lazy halyard to the yards peak. It was set up so that it had no tension normally but when the primary halyard was slacked away the yard swung into the mast vertically and came down vertically. Same thing going up. You hoisted the peak of the yard to the mast, tied that halyard off then hoisted the sail. I guess you could call this a yard lift.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Blacksburg, VA
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    I already have a parrel on the yard; it's there primarily to keep the yard close to the mast when the sail is reefed. It actually adds to to the complication when I drop the sail. As the yard comes down from 45 degrees to horizontal, the parrel forces the front end of the yard forward, so the boom is pulled forward. The Michael Storer arrangement, which holds the yard to the mast while allowing fore-and-aft movement, may help.

    My downhaul is short enough that the boom always stays close to the mast.

    The Romily arrangement looks promising, though it looks like it might present problems with binding up.

    I'd also thought of dual topping lifts on the boom that would act as lazy jacks and guide the yard as it came down.
    I will beg you for advice, your reply will be concise, and I will listen very nicely and then go out and do exactly what I want! (Apologies to Lerner and Lowe.)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    235

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    i have found that michael storers system works very well.

    i used to have problems with the yard jamming on the parrel or at other times dropping with the peak falling first- often into the water.

    the setup shown in post #4 solved all this. plus using a reduction on the downhaul improved sailing.

    worth a try.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Portland ME
    Posts
    688

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    I find it is best to point into the wind, lower sail about as gravity will bring it down.
    grab yard when it is in reach.
    Chris

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,989

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    My current lug yard is 50% glass/50% carbon and have to say that its lightness is a terrific help when dropping. It's so light that if I let go by accident, it does no harm to me or the boat as it falls. I think then, that for a larger boat like Romily the secret will be to make the yard as light as possible, and do as the Romily builders do, and have a carbon or glass carbon yard. Or perhaps a light weight wood core with Sollar Composites woven tubing carbon.
    http://www.solarcomposites.com/compo...20sleeves.html

    Brian

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    alkorn,

    Romilly's rigg features 2 elements which relate to your problem, if i understand it correctly.

    The first element are the lazy jacks, a system of three legs to on each side, fixed near the mast top to each other and and running to the boom (fore, middle and aft). They should guide both yard and sail while lowering, and are adjusted in lenghth so, that with last haul on the halyard the boom is lifted out of the lazy jacks where they should go slack enough not to interfere with the sail.

    The second element are luff gaskets in order to prevent the luff to saw in the wind from side to side while lowering or hoistig: Loose gaskets from cringles in the luff around the mast, slack enough not to take load when the sail is set.

    The throat parrel mentioned by the forumites is mandatory, as it stops the yard swinging too far forward and holds the forward end such that the aft ends starts going up first when hauling. Hauling should lift the yard until it is at its final angle, and from then on the yard should stay at this angle while going further up. In lowering the yard should stay peaked until its aft end is down on the boom, from where on the yard rotates around this point until it lays flat on the boom.
    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    586

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    I have no parrels or anything, just a halyard on the yard and a downhaul on the boom. Not sure how many sq feet-this is an Oughtred Acorn 15 sail in an Acorn 11 skiff. Anyway, I find if I just keep a little tension on the luff with one hand, ie grip the luff of the sail and pull down, as I let the halyard slip through the other hand, it all stays nice and neat. If I just lower the hallyard without controlling the luff then of course I have all manner of drama.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    56,286

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    I can testify that the Storer version is quite simple and manageable. I now have two boats with this style rig - one @ 105 sq. ft., and one @ 85 sq. ft. In fact, I guess I'm a bit spoiled, as these are the first balanced lug rigs I've been around. I didn't know how some versions of the rig can be a bit squirrley coming down - until I went out in a friends boat. Being forward, I was ordered to drop sail. I did it the same way I'm used to - letting the halyard slip freely through my fingers, and looking up to make sure it wasn't being blown over the side as it came down.

    It was only my cat-quick reflexes, and highly refined sense of self-preservation that kept me from catching the aft end of the yard right between the eyes. I caught it deftly (and luckily) in my left hand, and managed to get the rest down more or less without incident. My friend wanted to know why I was trying to send his yard spearing thru the bottom of his boat. The adrenaline slowly flushing from my system, I asked him how long it took him to train his rig to attack on command

    On our Goat Island Skiff, I'm perfectly comfortable letting my sons handle the dousing duties. Here's a foto of the youngest one (10 at the time) doing just that, while dad relaxes:

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    wales
    Posts
    1,008

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    My current lug yard is 50% glass/50% carbon and have to say that its lightness is a terrific help when dropping. It's so light that if I let go by accident, it does no harm to me or the boat as it falls. I think then, that for a larger boat like Romily the secret will be to make the yard as light as possible, and do as the Romily builders do, and have a carbon or glass carbon yard. Or perhaps a light weight wood core with Sollar Composites woven tubing carbon.
    http://www.solarcomposites.com/compo...20sleeves.html

    Brian
    or even a solid foam core pu or styro fixed round a mandrel, sheathed and then the core reamed out mechanically or chemically?

    BTW Brian have you dealt with the firm you show above? and do they deliver to the UK

    I have 20' of mast and 13' of yard to build for my lugger, together with 11' of jigger and 9' of bumkin

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,989

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Not dealt with Stoller yet, have them tucked away for when I need them.

    My supplier for the carbon glass tubes was a Hayling Island company "Carbon Fibre Tubes"

    http://carbonfibretubes.co.uk/standard.html

    Their standard stock tubes covered my needs, 50mm od tube for the mast and boom and they had a stock tapered tubes 40mm to 20mm which was perfect for my yard.

    Have you seen the new Deben Lugger. It has carbon tubes too.



    I got talking to the young man who developed her and it turned out he used the same supplier for his carbon glass spars for the Lugger. They suggested an extra wrap of carbon for the mast. He was very happy with them. They may be happy to quote for your needs.

    I found them very helpful.

    Brian

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    23,909

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Learning to sail the lug rig in the not so placid Pacific (which is no place for a beginner) and trying to lower sail or reef while being paralyzed with fear of the "normal" 15 foot swell and the 25 knot afternoon breeze in a boat that didn't tack reliably and all the while having that yard flogging about my head, I finally stumbled on to this rigging arrangement for a lug yard. It worked…
    Reefing can be a problem for most lugsail lash-ups involving moving the halyard attachment, but not for this one.

    It is "safe" and sure.


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    56,286

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    c'yawl,

    What you have sketched is precisely the setup that keyhavenpotter first mentioned back in post #4... and several others have lauded. It's what's on the boat in post #15. This is the clearest overall illustration of it yet. Thanks.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    23,909

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    The positioning of the block at #2 on my drawing is worth experimenting with. You can change the luff tension dramatically with this. I set it up for sailing without a reef.

    My rig would reef way down becoming almost a triangle, looking for all the world like a little lateen rig about 6 feet high and that saved our butts many times. It was often nasty enough out there that tacking an open boat was absolutely out of the question. We would "tack" by falling off, lowering the rig, wearing around under bare poles, and slowly rehoisting while gathering weigh on the other tack.
    Safe and sure, no raceboat stuff. Just do it soon enough to stay clear of the dreaded lee shore.

    edit to add; I secure the line to the yard at the #1 position with a rolling hitch and a stopper knot at the bitter end. I usually leave about six inches of loose line between the hitch and the stopper so that it is instantly obvious if the hitch has slipped. This may occur when reefing or rowing etc. I have not seen the rolling hitch slip under a load.
    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 04-26-2009 at 03:01 PM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    56,286

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Yes, and if you attach the block @ #2 with a cow-hitch, such tweaking is easily done. I find that the sweet spot is usually somewhere in the 40% - 50% back range. We have two sets of reef points on the 105 sq. ft. GIS rig, and it really helps if there's a serious blow happening.


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    23,909

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    That's the little triangle right there
    My last deep reef was set a little higher at the clew for head room.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    wales
    Posts
    1,008

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    if you attach the block @ #2 with a cow-hitch, such tweaking is easily done. I find that the sweet spot is usually somewhere in the 40% - 50% back range. We have two sets of reef points on the 105 sq. ft. GIS rig, and it really helps if there's a serious blow happening.
    I'm reliably informed that the hitch point on the yard should be between 35 and 40% of the length of the yard - but this may specific to to the angle of the yard to the vertical. Roxanne and Romilly are very high peaked [almost gunter-ish] whist most standing lug yards are set at a lower incidence

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    618

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Quote Originally Posted by ian scott View Post
    i have found that michael storers system works very well.

    i used to have problems with the yard jamming on the parrel or at other times dropping with the peak falling first- often into the water.

    the setup shown in post #4 solved all this. plus using a reduction on the downhaul improved sailing.

    worth a try.
    Howdy,

    It is not my idea but from the Dixon Kemp Manual of Seamanship from about 1870.

    It means a single halyard and no other bits makes sure that the yard is held snug against the mast when hoisted, but as the attachment point is about the halfway mark (it sounds counterintuitive ... but it usually puts the sail in the right place around there) the whole shebang will drop down level and cannot get too far from the mast.

    Also no chance at all of binding as the part that holds the yard to the mast is slacked off too.





    I don't really recommend it for bigger boats, or rather ocean distance cruisers because one I rigged this way had serious chafe problems - I think the ones that Todd has illustrated are a safer bet in that circumstance.

    Best wishes

    Michael.
    Last edited by Boatmik; 04-28-2009 at 08:47 AM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    618

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Quote Originally Posted by obscured by clouds View Post
    I'm reliably informed that the hitch point on the yard should be between 35 and 40% of the length of the yard - but this may specific to to the angle of the yard to the vertical. Roxanne and Romilly are very high peaked [almost gunter-ish] whist most standing lug yards are set at a lower incidence
    Probably horses for courses. The BETH and GIS have it about 50% or a tiny bit forward. The lug rig for the PDRacer is a bit further forward. You have to slide it around till you get the sail like on the drawing in the plans for the particular boat.

    We did have a bit of a problem with a Geo Holmes Ethel as the mast is drawn too far back in the 1870 plans resulting in the halyard being behind the 50% point .. which is pretty tricky in gusts!!!!

    MIK

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,344

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    I just finished a little 45 sq. ft. lug that reefs down into a lateen-like triangle for a canoe sailor - only this one is a standing lug, which makes the configuration a bit different. By running the second reef at that funny angle, it eliminates having to move the halyard tie-off point when reefing while keeping the fore-and-aft position of the CE in pretty much the same spot. Pulling the 2nd reef's tack grommet in, closer to the mast with the downhaul when reefing peaks the yard up more and the reefed foot will be kicked up aft, a bit above horizontal. You still have a lot of sail bottom to fool with when reefing, but the yard doesn't need adjusting and it really brings the sail down into a heavily-reefed state. Notice that the fiberglass handle from my roof rake makes a pretty lousy mast. The hunk of closet pole made a surprisingly respectable yard though.


  27. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    wales
    Posts
    1,008

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard



    Here's a shot of the boat my current project is based upon [a scan from Classic Boat], and what I was wittering on to Todd about ages ago!

    you can't see it in the photos but the heel of the yard is held in to the mast by a strop, together with a payed loop and parrel beads.

    Ive seen some notes on the way it was set up and the author [the owner] was'nt happy with the set of the carbon fibre yard. It was held at around 24% of length which did'nt work at all well [the source of that big crease Todd?] but it performed much better when it was set at 35%. All this bearing in mind that this is'nt strictly a balance lug.

    I'm a long way off this stage

    here's another photo:



    I can't see me being on the water till this time next year, but I'm happy to spread the cost and enjoy the process, and I've started a thread somewhere hereabouts on the re-build.

    ps the nasty stain on the foresail is on the scanned photo, not the sail!

    .
    Last edited by obscured by clouds; 04-29-2009 at 04:39 PM.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Jerome, Aridzonia Apu Mingus
    Posts
    6,616

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Learning to sail the lug rig in the not so placid Pacific (which is no place for a beginner) and trying to lower sail or reef while being paralyzed with fear of the "normal" 15 foot swell and the 25 knot afternoon breeze in a boat that didn't tack reliably and all the while having that yard flogging about my head, I finally stumbled on to this rigging arrangement for a lug yard. It worked…
    Reefing can be a problem for most lugsail lash-ups involving moving the halyard attachment, but not for this one.

    It is "safe" and sure.


    Stumbled on this and wanted to add it to the collection:

    It uses the same halyard arrangement with the addition of lazy jacks, and a jackstay on the outside of the sail, which keeps the luff contained between it and the mast.


    Description can be found here:
    http://dragonflycanoe.com/stephens/plates.html
    Greg H. - from before the great crash, 20th century member 108

    "(T)he Republican Party no longer recognizes the legitimacy of any opposition."

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    23,909

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    I discovered that drawing many years ago in WP Stephens book but omitted the lazy jacks for clarity. They do work but are more windage, I tried them but in the end I was able to do without them.
    (I think the "jackstay" is the halyard...)

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wow-Ming
    Posts
    18,360

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    On the balance lug rig I built for my Bolger Gypsy (with a Todd Bradshaw sail of about 66 sq. ft.) I used a toggled loop with parrel beads (which had to be drilled out) on black 3/16" cord.



    Since you can't see it very clearly, here's a view of the same setup on the boom:



    The rope wraps (over the toggled loops) keep the yard and boom from clacking on the mast. I used constrictor knots to keep it in place. The yard goes up and down very smoothly, and can be raised and lowered on the water without undue fuss.

    The downhaul is rigged to the boom with a constrictor knot and a couple half-hitches. I had a Harken dinghy vang block w/jamcleat so I used that— it works fine.

    (The laid rope/deckblock/camcleat setup was for a double-ended mainsheet that works well with the leg-of-mutton sail, but not with the lug rig.)

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Henniker, NH, USA
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Michael Storer's halyard system is similar to Todd's and comes from the 1890's sailing canoes.

    http://www.storerboatplans.com/GIS/GISRigging.html



    Brian
    Has anyone used the Storer halyard setup on a Caledonia Yawl? If so, has it cured the issue of the yard twisting around the mast when lowered?

    Bill

  32. #32
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ballard
    Posts
    8,305

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Regardless the rigging solution it helps to raise and lower the halyard of a lug yawl with a bit of urgency.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    181

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    A friend uses this lazy jack system and it is very sweet. It allows one to drop the rig swiftly which is most of the battle.

    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/11/...acks/index.htm

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Between Bourgeoisie and Proletariat - Australia
    Posts
    3,855

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Learning to sail the lug rig in the not so placid Pacific (which is no place for a beginner) and trying to lower sail or reef while being paralyzed with fear of the "normal" 15 foot swell and the 25 knot afternoon breeze in a boat that didn't tack reliably and all the while having that yard flogging about my head, I finally stumbled on to this rigging arrangement for a lug yard. It worked…
    Reefing can be a problem for most lugsail lash-ups involving moving the halyard attachment, but not for this one.

    It is "safe" and sure.

    I'm gonna use that on my Nutshell.
    It also have one less line to have to manage.

    I hadn't thought of a topping lift type thing for the boom.
    I do find the lug rig a bit floppy and loose when not taut in the wind.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,537

    Default Re: Taming the Balanced Lug Yard

    Quote Originally Posted by alkorn View Post
    My current boat has a balanced lug rig of about 65 square feet. Yard angle is about 45 degrees.

    I'm happy with how the rig sails, but when I drop it the sail and yard are all over the place. My main means of control is to hold onto the leech of the sail as I slack the halyard.
    No one has mentioned this (my method described below) yet:

    Instead of trying to control the sail by hanging on to the leech, move forward to the mast and keep tension on the luff of the sail by pulling down with left hand (assuming yard rigged to port). Then uncleat the halyard with your right hand, but keep the halyard running UNDER the horn cleat (assuming halyard cleats to a cleat on starboard side of mast). You can slack off the halyard one-handed and in control this way, while keeping good tension on the luff. That will keep the yard peaked up and in control as you lower the sail. When the yard is low enough, grab it with your left hand and pull the sail the rest of the way down. Simple and controlled.

    For hoisting, again move forward. Lift the yard with your left hand at the proper 45-ish degree angle while taking up slack in the halyard. Then, when you've lifted the yard as high as you can, let go and hoist away rapidly. That will, again, keep the yard close to the correct angle because you'll achieve luff tension pretty rapidly once you've already lifted the sail over your head by the yard.

    Hoisting and lowering this way really tames the whole operation significantly, but I haven't seen anyone else talk about doing it this way.

    Of course, for a 140 square foot sail, that might well be impractical. For a sail that size, I think lazyjacks would simplify things a lot.

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 01-25-2019 at 04:47 AM.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •