Go ahead, laugh...

[Bruce Taylor]

Well, my buddy Pato and I tried to push Schnecke into the water today. We used chains, cables and come-alongs to move her about six feet, and then...nothing. Another couple of feet and she'll slide right in, but there's something holding her up. We'll go back tomorrow, with more gear and see what we can do.

There's no road access to this wreck, so there's no way to get heavy equipment in. We can't bring anything to the site that won't fit in my Diablo skiff.

I took some pictures for your entertainment.







Laugh if you like...I still think it's a cool project!

[ 06-07-2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]

[Kevin G]

Bruce:

Maybe you could kedge it out. Put out a hefty anchor, weight etc. with a good sized single block on it,bring a line from the boat, through the block at the kedge and back to shore. Apply all the power you can, maybe through a double block etc. Worth a try... Tie off to a tree etc??

Kevin

Not laughing here, I've been in worse situations.

[Paul Scheuer]

When we were kids, (last century) we used an up-side-down periscope for underwater viewing. It was a window in the bottom of waterproof box that tapered up to a viewing port.

You could probably jury rig something similar to get an idea of how big the problem is before you apply brute force and damage something or someone.

Good luck, keep us posted, sounds like a real adventure.

[Hugh Paterson]

Methinks some kind fella on the water with another
hefty boat pulling while you shove might help advise taking the strain with the tow gently however.
Have fun.
Shug.

[NormMessinger]

Ho ho ho ha ha ha hee hee heee.

Um, it moved then came up against something that is keeping if from moving farther you say. A stump i the water? Yer gonna have to get wet. A bigger wrench aint always the answer.

[ken mcclure]

"I think we're gonna need a bigger winch."

[mmd]

I know that piece of shoreline. Get wet. Check to see if a sunken log (escapee from the log booms that are/were driven down the river) has jammed into the rudder or prop aperture. If not jammed, but against a rock or some other object, let me know and I'll tell you of a neat trick to temporarily raise the stern a few inches to clear the obstruction.

[Bruce Taylor]

Michael, I've mucked around in the water a bit already. The prop is clear (and the rudder has been unshipped and safely stowed) but there's a big square timber down in the muck that might be hooked on the after edge of the keel.

Raising the stern temporarily might help.

So, what's this trick?

[Steve Lansdowne]

This is just an idea. How about some heavy PVC pipe as a roller under the boat, sort of like the ancients used to move heavy rocks?

[ishmael]

I like a block and tackle, multi-part, rigged to a kedge, idea. If you have one handy, that is.

I want to know Michael's trick also.

Let's hope the crick don't rise in the night. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Ed Harrow]

Originally posted by Bruce Taylor:
...Raising the stern temporarily might help.

So, what's this trick?

Can you spell D-Y-N-A-M-I-T-E? That ought to raise the stern a foot (30 CM for you heathens ) without too much trouble.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Putting a round timber underneath the boat amidships and pulling it aft with a cable around the stern might get you off the bottom enough. I would suggest something at least the width of the boat and about 18" plus in diameter... Cedar log from nearby maybe?

[Mr. Know It All]

Looks to me like you need about a dozen guys with strong backs and weak minds and lots of beer. Bada boom bada bing you're in the water.

How the hell did that boat get in the woods in the first place?

[ 06-08-2003, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[R.I.Singer30]

[ishmael]

Schnecke

Translation? Snail? I bet I'm remembering that from an earlier thread? [img]smile.gif[/img]

A boat's gotta be what a boat's gotta be.

[ 06-08-2003, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[mmd]

Ingredients:

2 truck inner tubes
two sheets construction grade ¾” plywood, cut in half (4’ x 4’)
3” (or so) heavy steel pipe, about 5 - 6 ft. long (two pipes are even better)
several “air pigs” (portable air reservoirs used by mechanics to inflate tires on roadside repairs)

Recipe:

Clear debris around the stern of the boat.
Make a sandwich of two pieces of ply with an inner tube as the “filling” - make sure the tube lies flat and that the valve is accessible. Cut a hole in the top ply to access the valve if necessary.
Sink the inner tube sandwiches close by and on either side of the stern – use rocks to hold the ply down.
Slide the pipe under the keel and align it so that it rests on the centre of each of the ply sandwiches. Chock the pipe on both sides of both ends with wood wedges fitted with stout pull-away cords.
Use the air pigs to inflate the inner tubes, being careful to inflate both sides equally.

Results:

Application of about 2000 lbs of lifting force under the keel, which is resting on a rolling object(s).

Warnings:

The devices will be somewhat unstable when lifting, and can unpredictably launch their parts with some violence. A clip-on valve on a long hose to the air pigs which are fitted with controller valves so the operator can inflate the inner tubes from a safe bit away is a very good idea!

[Jerry Sousa]

If the soil around the boat is soft enough, could you not just dig a trench under and around her till she floats off? Less chance of damaging the craft anyway.

[mmd]

Not presuming to speak for Bruce, but I am pretty familiar with where the boat is - I used to live on that very property. It is Pre-Cambrian granite, the Canadian Shield. Not much good digging there without an excavator and a truckload of dynamite.

[Dean Preston]

You might also add a couple more innertubes port and starboard, in the water attached to a nylon sling just forward of the keel. The extra lift in that area may help raise the bow over the obstruction.

[Bruce Taylor]

Digging is definitely out of the question, for the reasons mmd has given.

Kevin, somewhere I have pics of Grenadian boatmen launching a huge schooner in that fashion. We'll do it that way, if we have to.

Ed, you do like things that go "boom," don't you? [img]smile.gif[/img]

PMJ, we might try something like that...jack up the bow, roll a log or two under the keel and let her down again.

I like that inner-tube trick...good to have it in reserve if we can't fumble her out with cables. Today, if I can get away for a while (I'm alone with the kids this week...SWMBO's up in James Bay) we're going to see what we can do with some truck jacks and a third come-along.

I seem to remember that Archimedes once launched a ship by himself, saying "Give me a long enough lever, and a place to stand, and I'll move the world!" Or something like that.

[TEWK]

There are a couple of things I would suggest, if you have not already done them.
First, find out what is holding her. If it is a tree stump, you will likely hole her and once she is free, you'll be able to get some "update" shots as she sinks.
Second, make certain that she is pumped dry and that ALL non-essential weight is removed.
Third, after first two are completed, I go along with the kedging idea and you should if possible, be on board her to see/hear if something is going wrong.
Good luck, it does look like a fun project.

[ishmael]

By all means, climb under there and see if you've got a deadhead holding you up. Not likely to puncture that steel hull, but all the tugging and prying in the world won't move it past a serious old stump.

One other thought re the block and tackle. I was pondering how to get enough giddyup on the bitter end as you haven't a land vehicle for a tug. How 'bout a come along anchored to a tree?

[Paul Scheuer]

Can you get a grip on the offending big square timber that seems to be holding thngs up ? You might have a better chance of pulling it off to port and out of the way with lots of tackle and a good place to anchor on shore. We once moved a very heavy load with a truck jack acting perpendicular to a taut logging chain.

[Dave Hadfield]

Yes Bruce, I think some sort of "camel" is required, like MMD suggested. (There's a description of them in use in Forester's "Commodore Hornblower" -- when he is in the Baltic trying to move Bomb Ketches into shallow water.)

You might want to find someone with a drysuit and tanks to work in the water for you.

Two plastic barrels conected with a rope sling, underwater, then inflated, might do.

Is there a work-barge (yard-scow) anywhere along that stretch of river? They have lots of floatation. You might be able to bring it into the stern, flood it to nearly sinking, lash it firmly to your boat, then pump the water out. You'd get quite a hoist that way, assuming you can get lines under your boat, lashed with very little play.

I assume you've got all the stuff out of the stern.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

If you opt for the dynamite, can you let me know when so I can come and watch?

BTW, it is a cool boat

[paladin]

Lacking dynamite you can use Black Powder (Ed Might help you here)mixed into vaseline and packed into some 4 inch diameter PVC pipe and put lengthwise under the boat. Ignite one end...it ain't as fast as dynamite....but izz gonna make big boom....

[Ed Harrow]

ROTFLMHO&KTC! If you like Chuck's idea, here's another. Rather than fill the truck inner tubes with air, fill them with a nice mix of O2 and C2H2 and light that off.

[Mike DeHart]

Some ideas. Maybe not good ones, but they may inspire better ideas.

Brute force method: You drug it 6 feet closer to the water with little problem. Drag it back out of the water, cull some logs from the surrounding woods, lay them down to build your very own slipway, then drag it all the way into the water.

Eagle Scout method: find a pair of large strong logs, lash them together into a bipod. Set them up over the stern and support them upright with ropes or poles. Rig block and tackle over your new gantry crane and lift the stern clear of whatever obstruction is there. Slide slipway timbers under the dangling boat. (I successfully pulled an engine from a Jeep in the woods this way, minus the slipway of course.)

Easter Island Statues Honoring Devo method: Use levers and various size bits of wood. Lever on one side of the boat and wedge small wood in the little space made. Lever opposite side and place small wood under. Lever alternate sides, each time adding small wood or removing small pile in favor of larger wood. Be sure to place wood such that you don’t chock the boat from being able to roll when levered from the opposite side. You gain only a little bit each time, but those bits add up and you should be able to lift the entire boat high-n-dry with this method and a little patience. This is how those big statues were raised into place.

Cool boat. I see a great story in the making.

[whb]

There is a method of portaging large boats over a hump called grasshoppering. I don't know if it would work with a boat that is not vertical.

You would need to pull the boat back the six feet you have already moved it.

Then attach stout timbers to the front on each side angling down towards the direction you want to go. They have to be firmly planted on the bottom.

Then as you pull the boat forward the six feet again the timbers will cause the front to lift.

The problem is that if it does not provide enough extra distance the boat will come down again onto the offending snag and you may be no better off.

Good Luck

Howard

[TimothyB]

Personally, I would bring the biggest anchor I could carry in there, chain, enough 1" line to bridle the whole boat, and a great honking come-along. Drop the anchor, attach the chain to the bridle and comealong and start ratcheting.

If the bottom is too muddy for an anchor, but is a bit shallow, maybe you could bring in a small piling to use as a leverage point? Drive it in 20 feet behind the boat (sure, it will take an hour with a sledge hammer, but hey, we all need to lose weight right?) then run a line on an angle back to shore to a tree or some such and use that great comealong again.

You could also get a whole lotta line and lead it all the way back to the opposite shore and use a tree there. [img]smile.gif[/img]

--T

[Bruce Taylor]

Ed, I'll try that method, but only if you test it out on Phoenix first. [img]smile.gif[/img]

There are some great suggestions, here. We won't be able to try any of them until tomorrow, at the earliest.

In the meantime, I hope Hydro Quebec doesn't pull the plug on our water.

[Garrett Lowell]

"There's no road access to this wreck, so there's no way to get heavy equipment in. We can't bring anything to the site that won't fit in my Diablo skiff."

Find someone who has a Jeep.

[mmd]

Garrett, getting a jeep to where that boat is would take the same equipment and effort used to get the boat in the water. Bottom of a 300-ft deep gorge in hard granite, no soil to speak of, huge boulders, edge of a lake formed by a dam downstream. The boat ended up where it is because the fellow who owned it owned a house at the top of the cliff and had a walking trail - complete with several flights of stairs - down to the water's edge. To haul a boat out there was close to lunacy, as Bruce is finding out.

Bruce, is there still a little stone-and-timber wharf and floating dock on blue barrels just upstream from where the boat is lying, inside the little cove? When I lived there I designed a floating dock for the homeowners association on top of the hill. It was designed so that instead of towing it a mile or so upriver where it could be landed and stored, as it froze in in the winter the pressure of the ice on the barrels would force it up on top of the ice so it could be used as a seat for putting on your skates. Worked pretty good the first year, then I left for contracts elsewhere. Most of the homeowners have moved on, too, so I lost contact with folks in the area.

[Bruce Taylor]

Michael, I briefly considered taking a backhoe up the tracks...it would be a merry race, with the steam train on our tail!

I'll look for that wharf & dock, Michael. Sounds ingenious. As an experiment, I left my dock in last year...ice tore the hinge bolts out, of course. I wanted a bigger one anyway...it would be nice to have one that pops up out of the ice, instead of being ground to sawdust by the grumblers. I hate wading in to pull the dock out...in, ummm, November. [img]redface.gif[/img] Chilly.

[m poulin]

Hey Bruce,

Sloshing in water, black flies and mosquitoes and a few tons of dead weight, sounds like fun!

My kids are going on the steam train as a school outing on Friday...would you mind using the back hoe on Saturday, please!

Keep the faith! (it moves mountains)

Cheers

Maurice

[Paul Scheuer]

In the meantime, I hope Hydro Quebec doesn't pull the plug on our water

Would it be posible to get some cooperation from them, either to raise the water enough to float, or lower it enough to clear the obstructions ?

[Alan D. Hyde]

1. Make a stout tripod out of three stout ~twenty-foot logs (though if you're short on manpower, and depending on water depth, maybe 12 or more foot would do it; I can't really tell from here). Wrap heavy chain around them about a foot from their ends, and erect them in the water with feet well spread. The nearest side to the boat of the equilateral triangle formed by their feet should be perpendicular to the boat's keel.

2. Hang a chain from the tripod with a ten-ton winch on it.

3. The center of your tripod should be about 12 feet out in the water from the boat.

4. Strap firmly around the boat with heavy nylon webbing, of the type used on travel-lifts; attach your winch to this.

5. As you lift with the winch (from a safe distance ), the boat will also swing outward from the shore.

That's what I'd do, Bruce. Whatever YOU do, good luck, and be careful.

Alan

[ 06-09-2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Bruce Taylor]

He he. I loved "Fitzcarraldo," and the documentary about the making of it, "Burden of Dreams." As it happens, we do have a paddle-wheeler on the river...just a few hundred yards upstream from our wreck.

We finally got back to the site for an hour this afternoon. This time, we brought a hefty chain winch and that made a big difference. We yanked the Bad Log out of the way, and then moved the boat another couple of feet toward freedom. Unfortunately, the bow is now even with the trees to which we've been attaching our chains. We're going to have to rig up an "extender," or "push-pole"....basically, a length of I beam with a notch for the stem cut into it. Or else we could try the "truck jack on a taut logging chain," as described by Paul Scheuer.

Kedging is still a possibility, but I don't expect we'll get much purchase with the little ten-pound anchor that came with the boat. Maybe I can borrow a decent hook from the Wakefield Marina.

An encouraging hour's work, anyway.

Michael, I motored into the cove, & saw a long wharf, with a channel and boat house -- but that place had no dock. At another lot, I saw a good sized raft on blue barrels -- if that's your old dock I'm afraid it's been maintained with the same sort of TLC that's been lavished on Schnecke.

[mmd]

I suspect that the derelict dock on blue barrels is the one - the homeowners' association was generous when it came time to throw money in the pot to get stuff, but loath to work at maintaining it once acquired. Oh, well, I'm sure it did yeoman service for most of the past 14 years. And I still have the design drawings....

[Bill Perkins]

How about rigging a heavy kedge anchor and leading it with a bridal to the bow ? Then setting the mast and leading the halliard back to a tree most nearly inline with the boat's axis ? The stayed mast is a huge lever you're not makeing use of .

[ 06-11-2003, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[Phil Young]

Bring a BIG pump down next time, just in case you do get her into the water! Hand operated, you'll run down a battery pretty quick I suspect.

[skuthorp]

Question. will she float clear of her hatches on her side? (refer article in current WB) She may slide more easily that way on the mud.
While youre doing all this, keep an eye on yourselves and do frequent safety checks. It looks like a situation that could get dangerous fast! You dont want anyone pinned in or out of the water or speared by flying timbers. Keep in mind a group of blokes in this situation can sometimes be driven more by testosterone than sense.

[km gresham]

MKIA, Hurricane Hugo moved a few shrimp boats from water to land [img]smile.gif[/img]

[R.I.Singer30]

Do you know anyone with one of these?

[ongolo]

There is another way

Make an A-frame out of strong timber or strong pipes (how heavy is the boat?), then get a chainblock (I am not sure of your american terminology)angle put one leg of the a-frame either side of the boat and angle the a-frame forward in the direction you would like to move.

get one sling to a point which is forward where you where you expect the centre of gravity to be, but it is important that the chain block pulls vertical and the legs of the a-frame are slightly to the rear and the a-frame leans forward.

Then rigg a "backstay" from a second sling attached to the rear of the boat to hold the a-frame slightly forward.

If you now begin to lift you also create a forward pulling force (by the angled a-frame and the backstay)

If you lift high engough to clear the obstacle, the a-frame will tilt forward taking the boat along until it has lowered the boat to the ground level. To continue, you might have to slacken off the backstay. Or you move the a-frame forward again another short distance and repeat. This will work!! I have moved things by myself during a lunch hour to win a bet, using just this method.

I hope I could explain properly.

Regards from Africa Ongolo

[ken mcclure]

Well! Hello down there in Africa! [img]smile.gif[/img]

The only thing I'd add is to make sure that you don't set her down on the obstacle - especially if it's something pointy.

You're liable to get yourself an unwanted through-hull.

[Bruce Taylor]

Great suggestion, Ongolo. We'll give the steel bar a try tomorrow, and if that doesn't do the trick I'll start looking for some strong poles.

[Carl Simmons]

Don't forget the "Big Pump" Phil recommended . If you do manage to get it back into the water, I'm sure it wasn't beached because it was in perfect shape

Carl.

[Donn]

and if that doesn't do the trick I'll start looking for some strong poles

Yep...a few dozen strong Poles (or Hungarians)will do the trick.

[Bruce Taylor]

Russians are supposed to be good at that sort of thing:

Volga Boat Song

Yo heave ho! Yo heave ho!
Once more, once more, Yo heave ho!
Pull the barge 'gainst the river's tide,
CHORUS:
Volga River stretching far and wide.
Ai da da, ai da, ai da da, ai da,
Pull the barge 'gainst the river's tide,
Yo heave ho! Yo heave ho!

Yo heave ho! Yo heave ho!
As the barges float along,
To the sun we sing our song...

Yo heave ho! Yo heave ho!
Volga, Volga our pride,
Mighty stream so deep and wide...