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Thread: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

  1. #1
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    Default Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    I'm looking for a boat with the following criteria:

    Trailerable behind a reasonable sized vehicle (let's say less than 3000# on the trailer), berth for two out of the weather (small cabin, not interested in setting up deck tents, etc.) 5-7 knts. with 10 hp or so. I prefer glue & screw construction, and would also prefer designs that don't require lofting, though this isn't a showstopper. I can learn if I have to! My available building space could possibly allow a larger boat, but I don't think I need anything bigger than 18-20'.

    Use will be mainly on rivers and mid-sized inland lakes, with an occasional near shore fishing trip on Lake Michigan. I'm considering the Hartely 18 Fisherman and either the 18 or 21' Redwing. I've also looked at Selway Fishers Rufus, which is buildable from 17-20 feet. and the Glen-L Bo-Jest. My take on each of these:

    Hartely: Decent looking, easy to build, with a decent sized double berth. Small wheelhouse for operation out of the weather. I've read that it uses some odd size lumber which will require a little extra time on the table saw and planer.

    Rufus and Bo-Jest: Interesting looks, versatile layout plans. Small wheelhouse for operation out of the weather. Support from Selway Fisher gets great reviews. My experience so far has been great even though I have only purchased study plans. Not completely sold on the "character" boat styling.

    Redwing: Great looking boat. Wheelhouse available on 21' version, although that is a little bigger than I'd like to build. Not sure I'd like the narrow beam and flat bottom on choppy days on Lake Michigan. I do like the tiller steering on the 18' version for nice weather days.

    Other than the Redwing 21, cost and build time should be similar, although cost isn't the determining factor. If it were, I'd buy a used boat. All would fit the need for weekending on lakes & rivers, and I think most would also be suitable for calm days on the Great lakes. I would question the Redwing 18 on this last point. What say you? Pros and cons of these designs? Any other suggestions?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Did you look at the Chesapeake Light Craft 14 foot cabin-camp-cruiser, a kit boat? It's clever and handsome enough. --Wade

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    How about a Devlin Dipper http://www.devlinboat.com/dipper.htm ? This one was stretched a foot to about 17.5' Runs nicely on 10 hp. Stitch and glue but its easy (and arguably preferable) to frame out the bulkheads and glue and screw into them. Play around with the cabin size:


    This second pic is a Dipper built stock:



    One under construction:


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Another....




    Harbor Master Displacement 19

    http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/HMD...htm?prod=HMD19
    We think we are living on a planet that is floating around the sun. It isn't true, there is no planet and there is no sun. There isn't anything, it's just pure consciousness and nothing more.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Thanks! Dipper and the Harbor Master 19 are both interesting designs. I'll take a look at the web sites. I was trying to avoid stitch & glue, but never considered framing the bulkheads and screwing things together. Certainly worth considering.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    When you say Camp Cruiser, I think row and sail open boat.

    That Devlin Dipper has a nice jaunty look to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    I think Weston Farmer's Trumpet is an interesting boat:



    DN Goodchild has the plans and there's a description of the boat in Farmer's book From My Old Boat Shop. The keel shape is an unusual feature as is the 'reverse' lapstrake on the bottom, together giving a better ride than is usually common for an 18' boat. It could also probably take more horsepower than what you have in mind.
    Last edited by rbgarr; 02-05-2009 at 04:59 PM.
    "Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." ~ Mark Twain


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    As long as we're throwing Weston Farmer into the mix his easily built and very versatile Poor Richard can be configured almost endlessly, it seems http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/wf...hard/index.htm:








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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    I had similar interests last year, and bought full plans for the choices you have already considered. I ruled out Hartly because of the strange sizes of lumber - you're right, you'd be spending lots of time at the table saw; otherwise a nice looking boat and would fit the needs nicely. Likewise ruled out the redwing (easy glue and screw, too bad) because of flat bottom and no self bailing cockpit (mine is ocean use only). Rufus was my second favorite, can be built 17' or 20' (remember this one has a motorwell so you lose some cockpit space) and I really liked the "character boat" look. The plans look good and complete, mainly stitch and glue method with stringers thrown in, a bit of hybrid method, and this one lost out primarily because I really wanted a self-bailing cockpit. I ended up building the HMD19 previously listed. Worked out pretty well, 6 mph at half throttle and 7.5mph WOT with a Merc 9.9 bigfoot. The biggest benefit of this design, IMHO, is the incredible support system in terms of the Bateau website forum - visit it, there is nothing like it anywhere else in the boatbuilding world. Any question you may have will have responses within a few hours. The plans are more complete than anything else I've seen thus far (4 wood boats and maybe 20 sets of plans), although I'd prefer glue and screw myself. The boats are very stron and light; I've had to add about 12 gallons of water jugs down low to "ballast" this little cruiser:

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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Chicagoross,

    That is a nice looking build. I'll definitely consider that design & visit the forums. Is the v-berth comfortable for two adults?....Strike that question. I just visited the website. Looks like it's plenty roomy for my needs. It really is a neat layout.
    Last edited by Downrigger; 02-05-2009 at 05:15 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    I believe that Poor Richard was mentioned in an earlier issue of WB. I will try to look it up.

    ETA Issue 20, page 76, there is an article which includes the designer's commentary.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    The berth is 6 1/2 long (fore-and-aft) and 7 plus diagonal, over 6 foot wide. Very comfortable for me and my wife. More important is a ton of storage on this boat, under the berths, under the seatboxes, and under the sole. We take our 4 and 6 year old out with us for the day, all the extra food and drinks packed (notice the 2 beer coolers and large fish box doubling as cockpit seating), the kids and wife nap whenever they want so everyone stays happy. You can't believe this much room with an 18 1/2' boat. Which is good because you'll be out a long time when you're going 6 or 7 mph! The cabin doors are off in this picture, as is the splash board I have between the seat boxes. As you can see, I deleted the galley boxes in favor of more seating and beer storage, and dropped the sole in the pilothouse to allow stand-up headroom. 2 of the 4 2 1/2" scuppers are visable here, the self bailing cockpit was important to me.

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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    whoops...

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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser



    Blue Jacket (of various lengths). I know it is a planning design but it does it with not much power...and you don't have to use it all!

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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Thanks for the pics. I like that layout on the HBD19. The Blue Jacket looks nice too, but I'm really looking for a displacemtn type hull designed for a low HP outboard. It also looks like the Blue Jacket is stitch & glue. I'm really leaning towards the Hartley Fisherman. It really meets all of my requirements. Berth for two, able to operate out of the weather, seaworthy enough for my area, and enough room in the cockpit for two to fish comfortably. The Harbor Master is still under consideration though, even if it is S&G construction. I like everything about the Dipper except the central steering. I'm sure it could be arranged differently, but space (width) is limited unless the cabin is completely re-designed.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Hartley Fisherman 18 for those unfamiliar:

    I like it, too.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Hartley Fisherman 18 for those unfamiliar:

    I like it, too.
    Thanks Jim. I guess I could have done that. Not many pics of the Hartley floating around, but there are some of the sailing version, which has similar lines and accomodations.

    Thanks to everyone for your input. I've been towing a 5000#, 24', 400 cubic inch powered, fiberglass sedan bridge boat for the last few years. Most of the space I never use, it burns gas at an unbelievable rate, and most of the time, we're cruising around at 5 mph anyway. A smaller displacement type boat keeps making more and more sense. No need for my diesel pickup, easy to launch and much better on the small lakes. And lets not forget a 90% reduction in fuel use! We've built several kayaks and a couple of small boats. We enjoy the building process almost as much as using the boat. It's time to build something a little bigger and more challenging. We'll be able to build and outifit it our way, and have the pride of ownership that only a self-built boat can bring. But....I'm preaching to the choir here. Thanks again!
    Last edited by Downrigger; 02-06-2009 at 08:03 PM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    I like the looks of the Dipper. I am also looking for something that can be used from Puget to Desolation sound. The problem for me is the wife, she wants something a little bigger like the Sea Sport 22 which is a nice production boat. So I am going to wait and see what the new Timber coast 22 from Bartender and Tad Roberts looks like. The last time she got her way she told me that if I can have a 4000 foot shop she could have a log house. That house took me four years of seven days a week work and I never want to tackle a project that big again.

    JG

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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by jgerber View Post
    I like the looks of the Dipper. I am also looking for something that can be used from Puget to Desolation sound. The problem for me is the wife, she wants something a little bigger like the Sea Sport 22 which is a nice production boat. So I am going to wait and see what the new Timber coast 22 from Bartender and Tad Roberts looks like. The last time she got her way she told me that if I can have a 4000 foot shop she could have a log house. That house took me four years of seven days a week work and I never want to tackle a project that big again.

    JG
    That is exactly why I'm looking for something under 20', with fairly straightforward construction. A couple of years to build is fone, but I don't want this to turn into a lifetime project. I'm pretty fortunate. My wife is an active partner in all of my projects, and she tens to be the minimalist type. Doesn't want anything big or fancy. I think most of the designs discussed above would be her idea of an ideal project.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    a couple others that come to mind are:

    bolger cabin clam skiff

    Bolger Bantam

    atkins Ninegret

    while not exactly what you want, they are close.
    Last edited by openboater; 02-07-2009 at 04:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Here's another one from Bateau.com. This is a new design that is very salty!







    The pilothouse has 80" of headroom under it and the selfbailing cockpit sole is 63" long and 99" wide. The rounded transom really sets this boat apart.

    You can find more at
    http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/MM2....htm?prod=MM21

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    I've considered Ninigret. It does meet most of the criteria, and is definitely a sharp looking boat. I'll pass on the Bolger designs. I've never seen one of his designs that I found particularly pleasing to the eye. That new Bateau design is nice looking. If only it were designed for glue & screw construction. I've decided to rule out the stich & glue method based on my experience buiilding some smaller craft. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but that method just doesn't feel like "building" to me. I know that isn't a very scientific method of determining buld type, but the main goal is to have fun, right?

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    This is an old plan by the well respected E. I. Schock
    http://www.dngoodchild.com/5742.htm

    It looks like a vee bottom displacement cruiser. The description doesn't give the construction method. Probably old style plywood on frame or strip planked.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Downrigger, from what you've stated as your priorities, the Hartly should be a good choice. Not that different from the HMD, really in terms of layout and general looks, just a different construction method. It does have a multichine hull, a bit more work but a bit nicer looking too. Hartley allows stretching their designs 10% by respacing frames; much easier on a screw&glue than a stich&glue. A few extra inches each for the cockpit, pilothouse, and berths at the cost of maybe a sheet of plywood and a two foot longer trailer tongue...

    The only things I didn't care for on the plans for Hartley 18 were the wood sizes being custom cutting, and the "full size frame patterns", (all on a couple sheets of paperto be tiled together, overlapping each other), I'd rather have a set of offsets and lay them out myself.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Just to throw another design in, if you like round sterns and plenty of seaworthiness have a look at the Hankinson/Sorensen tugs. Goliath is 18':



    these are serious vessels meant for work or pleasure. They feature deep-draft, heavy-displacement hulls for the motion and feel of little ships. With their oversize props, big rudders, and deep keels, these boats can turn on a dime and punch through seas that would stop or flail about less-able "flyweights" of similar length.

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    Thumbs down Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by SalmonMan View Post
    Here's another one from Bateau.com. This is a new design that is very salty!







    The pilothouse has 80" of headroom under it and the selfbailing cockpit sole is 63" long and 99" wide. The rounded transom really sets this boat apart.

    You can find more at
    http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/MM2....htm?prod=MM21
    There is just nothing right about this entire boat! Some design concepts just do not work with stitch & glue plywood :-(
    When the last tree is cut
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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by michigangeorge View Post
    There is just nothing right about this entire boat! Some design concepts just do not work with stitch & glue plywood :-(
    I agree this design is an acquired taste but fail to see what stitch and glue has to do with it.

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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    I think Weston Farmer's Trumpet is an interesting boat:



    DN Goodchild has the plans and there's a description of the boat in Farmer's book From My Old Boat Shop. The keel shape is an unusual feature as is the 'reverse' lapstrake on the bottom, together giving a better ride than is usually common for an 18' boat. It could also probably take more horsepower than what you have in mind.
    Is it just me but is Trumpet's keel hogged--or is that the reverse lapstrake? Is that the Coke bottle pinch or decalage that Farmer talks about?

    Has anybody mentioned Sundance? Classic design, reasonable power, good designer. Although thinking about it, it does use a tent.
    John
    ----
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    They call that a "hook" and SkiffAmerica has one too... 3/4" in the last 6 ft if I recall correctly. It acts like a fixed trim tab...keeping the nose down. When you watch it go from stop to full out...you really can't tell just when it gets on plane. There is very little bow lift and what little there is just kind of stays there. It'll do over 25 mph with a 25 hp and run all day on a tank of fuel on plane.
    Last edited by Lewisboats; 02-09-2009 at 09:52 AM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Triumph had the decalage shape. The keel looks hogged, but the actual buttock lines are straight as an arrow. The only thing that takes on that exaggerated shape is the forefoot. The rest is normal.

    E

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Well, I've got plans on the way for the Hartley. But......My wife really likes the pics she's seen of Redwing, so we're still in the deciding phase. That Hankinson tug is a neat looking boat, but much more of a project than I want to take on right now. Thanks again for all of your suggestions.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    If you can live with the flat bottom, the Redwing would be an easier build than the hartley. Very simple and straightforward, frames on 2' centers (the 21, version, don't have plans for the 18'), and flat bottom means only 1 chine each side. Weight is supposedly 1200 pounds, easy to tow.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Downrigger View Post
    Well, I've got plans on the way for the Hartley. But......My wife really likes the pics she's seen of Redwing, so we're still in the deciding phase. That Hankinson tug is a neat looking boat, but much more of a project than I want to take on right now. Thanks again for all of your suggestions.
    Downrigger, I have a question or two about the Hartley. First, from the pics the hull looks like the TS18 exactly? Do you know if that's so? Most sailboat hulls motor quite well but there are still differences from a motor cruiser hull. If you are happy with the Hartley hull then you can do just about anything you want with the cabin. If the Mrs likes the look of the Redwing hull then make draw up a cabin for the Hartley that looks more like a Redwing. But that Redwing 18 cabin is very small and the boat's beam is only 6.5 feet. The Hartley hull could handle the cabin of the Redwing 21 pilothouse and I bet you'd be happy to have the extra room and protection from the weather:


  34. #34
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser



    I know this is a bit bigger than what you were asking for, but have you considered a commuter launch, such as the Bateau.com Fast Launch? It has a V berth up front, it's reasonably fast and it has lots of space for guests, fishing, etc. You could easily put a nice canopy over it as well. I'd say this type of boat is the top choice for me, should I ever want a powerboat.
    1947 Nordic Folkboat "Nina"

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Downrigger, I have a question or two about the Hartley. First, from the pics the hull looks like the TS18 exactly? Do you know if that's so? Most sailboat hulls motor quite well but there are still differences from a motor cruiser hull. If you are happy with the Hartley hull then you can do just about anything you want with the cabin. If the Mrs likes the look of the Redwing hull then make draw up a cabin for the Hartley that looks more like a Redwing. But that Redwing 18 cabin is very small and the boat's beam is only 6.5 feet. The Hartley hull could handle the cabin of the Redwing 21 pilothouse and I bet you'd be happy to have the extra room and protection from the weather:
    On the hartly web site there are pics of a couple of Fisherman 18s. They say that one of them is nearly identical to the sail version. I don't see a big difference, but it's hard to tell from the pics. When the plans get here, I'll have a better idea. Here's a link:

    http://www.hartley-boats.com/fisher18.html

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by BarnacleGrim View Post

    I know this is a bit bigger than what you were asking for, but have you considered a commuter launch, such as the Bateau.com Fast Launch? It has a V berth up front, it's reasonably fast and it has lots of space for guests, fishing, etc. You could easily put a nice canopy over it as well. I'd say this type of boat is the top choice for me, should I ever want a powerboat.
    That is a great looking boat, but definitely bigger than I'm looking to build. I'm actually downsizing. Just sold this:



    I want something a little easier to tow, launch & much easier on fuel. While the fast launch is much lighter & fuel efficient, it's still long & needs a long trailer. Besides that, 100 yards of cloth & 24 gallons of epoxy? No thanks! I'll stick to straight ply & CPES coating. I've glassed enough smaller boats to know that I don't want to glass a large one! A 22-23 foot commuter launch in glue & screw construction, I'd consider. Even that is stretching the garage space.
    Last edited by Downrigger; 02-10-2009 at 09:18 PM.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Downrigger View Post
    On the hartly web site there are pics of a couple of Fisherman 18s. They say that one of them is nearly identical to the sail version. I don't see a big difference, but it's hard to tell from the pics. When the plans get here, I'll have a better idea. Here's a link:

    http://www.hartley-boats.com/fisher18.html
    I see what you mean:

    If it were me I'd be much happier with this hull than a flat bottomed Redwing. In fact my next boat (and last) will be a sailboat conversion to a pilothouse cruiser, if all goes according to plan.

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Maybe a change in plans.Was reading the Nexus web site. I love the look of the 21' dory. Not a displacement hull, but designed for low horsepower outboards. Should be pretty economical with 20 hp or so. Pretty easy construction, sleeping accomodations for two (maybe a little snug, but we'd manage), easy to tow & very pleasing looks in my opinion.


  39. #39
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Talk with Dave, very nice guy and very helpful.

    E

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    accomodations for two (maybe a little snug, but we'd manage)
    Yes, nice looking, but that fine entry might make it more than just a little snug. I hope you guys don't have big feet. My 15 footer has more room inside.


  41. #41
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Better yet:



    E

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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Yes, I've seen those pictures and understand that it would be tight. It would be easy enough to mock up the cabin and berth out of cardboard before construction to check the space. If not enough, it would also be fairly simple to move the cabin bulkhead back 6-12" to imcrease interior space without compromising the design, performance, or overall look of the boat. Just kicking around ideas. Have not looked at the design in detail, just a quick browse of the Nexus web site. This one jumped out and said "I'm pretty", build me!

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Pics of skiff America (I think someone already mentioned the design)






  44. #44
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    An interesting way to get more room. Looks like the canvas top comes right off, too:



    Side view of the same Skiff America:


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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Skiffamerica is a good looking boat. But....I'm hoping to avoid stitch & glue or taped seam construction. Not condeming the method, it just doesn't feel like building to me. I suppose that I've opened a whole new can of worms by straying from the dispacement hull. Nothing wrong with having two or three sets of plans in hand. I've had less fun decisions to make tha which boat to build!

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by jgerber View Post
    I am going to wait and see what the new Timber coast 22 from Bartender and Tad Roberts looks like.
    JG
    Looks pretty good to me, so far.

    Preston

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    I have had this one bookmarked for many years. About time I shared it. Hilda II is 20' a tad over 2,000# power her with 10-60hp. Strip plank.
    http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Boat%2.../newpage11.htm


    I was also poking around Tom Lathrop's BlueJacket site to take a look at he 20' His site appears to have some missing content. Hopefully it is a temporary issue. The 20 has soem nice features also. http://www.bluejacketboats.com/
    Last edited by capt jake; 02-15-2009 at 11:52 AM.

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Yep, the Skiff America canvas top removes to give you walking space all the way to the bow. Nice boat.

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Downrigger View Post
    ....I'm hoping to avoid stitch & glue or taped seam construction...
    I prefer frames. too. But if you frame out all the bulkheads, and glue and screw to them there'd be a minimum of taped fillets. I haven't seen the plans but it might even be practical to set up the bulkhead with chine logs and sheer clamps and then presto - its a framed boat - no S&G at all. I mean, if say you really liked the design (or some other stitch and glue design) and S&G was the only real complaint, there's ways of getting around that

  50. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    4,635

    Default Re: Small Displacement Camp Cruiser

    Bump. Thoughts on Hilda II?

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