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Thread: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

  1. #1
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    Default Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    I’m building a Macgregor (15’8” version) sailing canoe. Although a very long way off completion I’m thinking about which rig option to choose.
    The design plans by Iain Oughtred illustrate the options of either a balanced lug for both main and mizzen or Gunter rigs for both. I have had a quote and suggestion from a sail maker to go for “balanced lug main and Gunter mizzen combination, for ease of use.
    Having never sailed a canoe before all advice and observations welcome. The progress (or sometimes lack of it) of the build may be seen at http://sailsaltsawdust.blogspot.com/

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    You must go for a two-stick rig to get all the joy out of a sailing canoe, and balance lugs are never going to possibly get hung up when you need them down NOW like a gunter could. Gunter rigs are notorious for getting the heel of the yard twisted just so they won't come down without a healthy tug on the luff. You don't have the leisure of strolling forward to the base of the mast to give your sail a helping hand in a canoe. I will be rigging my new traditional construction 13' MacGregor with a pair o' lugsails just like i rigged the last one I built ten years ago.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Nice looking project!
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    I'm curious, are you guys building the "new" Oughtred version or the old one? The old one has seven strakes, the new one (apparently) has six and is "fuller forward".

    Not to sound peevish, but it's a bit maddening that Oughtred decided that the MacGreggor wasn't quite right and redrew it (didn't change the name of course!), but WB continues to sell the old version of the plans year(s) later. It leaves one wondering what the designer knows that we don't!

    It's too late for me, I've already cut out the forms so it's full speed (more like dead slow) ahead!

    Oops, never mind new vs old, I just found your blog link and I counted the strakes. Old version I believe.

    Cheers, David
    Last edited by Lulworth; 01-22-2009 at 04:57 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    For traditional lapstrake, I want the seven strakes anyways. So far I have managed to get all of my planks out of 2x6's.

    Iain just likes to fiddle.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    I have plans for the Mk.II version and it details plank layouts for both 6 strake (glued lap) and 7 strake (traditional build). The new plans show the moulds full size, also there are only 8 moulds in the new ones. I agree that the lug rig is the way to go if for no other reason than looks.

    David

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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    I experimented with a few types for my Mac. I began with the fully battened balanced lug using the larger main as in the plans.



    It looked good for the type of boat and functioned well. I had a slight problem with light air performance...I installed the battens that came with the sailrite kit and found that in light airs, the sail wouldn't develop enough draft. I could've experimented with different battens, but as I like tinkering too much, decided to make a jib-headed gunter;



    We truly enjoyed the increased windward ability of this set, but I've set them aside to remake as battenless with a hollowed leach.

    When that idea popped into my mind, I asked sailrite if they would make a kit using the original lug dimensions, but without battens and a slight hollow to the leach, they happily cut this set for me, which I am using until I remake the gunter.



    I've sailed along side other Mac's with this rig, and even they can see the difference in what the increased draft can bring. These boats are quite tender, and Jenny and I usually only head out in light to moderate airs, so the ability to see a bit of draft develop in the lightest whisper of air has been a benefit.

    I'm not a naval architect nor professional sailmaker. Hopefully one of them will chime in, as there are definite dangers in making the sail too powerful for the design. If anything my pics will at least show you what other choices look like.

    Andy

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Thanks to you all, for the advice. It looks like a lug it is, with some reasonable draft designed in.

    Yes it is the old version we are building (simply owing to the fact we weren’t aware of any other when we started). I now have the new plans as well which have some useful extra construction detail.

    Thanks again and nice pictures by the way, I can almost imagine our project off the building frame and floating (within the next 6 months!)

    Jonathan

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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Andy--nice rig(s)! Share them with us at CSM?
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Andrew - I notice that your boat doesn't have full decks. How much difficulty do you have with water coming in over the side when you heel?

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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    My own first MacGregor didn't have decks either, and I never missed 'em. I've used another MacGregor that was built with the deck and coaming and found it harder to hike out in it. I suspect that if you let that boat heel enough where the deck goes in the water, you're wading home anyways. I'm not putting decks on my new one, either. Leaving the weight off is pretty advantageous for cartopping too.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Steve,

    I built the boat without a solid deck for the access it allows for camping gear. Jenny and I really enjoy the Adirondack boat-access-only tent sites. We try to carry enough in one trip to be self sufficient for days.

    The unfortunate side is as you suggest, we are bailing constantly when under sail. To allow us to heel a bit further, I stitched up a canvas deck at the suggestion of someone I met at MASCF. This softer deck is easily removable and can adjust for extra gear in the ends.

    Here are two shots showing the ability to load up with or without the deck on.





    And below is a close up of the deck showing the full length coaming. I had first made it with more of a spray guard (as seen in the above photo) near the mast, but last winter I stitched in a full length piece, as most of the water seems to come in just aft of max beam. You can see that it holds itself on with a line stretched taut under the outwale.



    Thanks for the interest P.A. I've enjoyed your site and have had it book-marked from the start.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Andrew, what you have is an inspiration for us all. Sure would like to see that in CSM! What say we all--should I feature Andrew's boat in an upcoming issue? (Nothing like peer pressure, eh?)
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    You've got my vote on that PA. And I happen to know that Andrew has lots of fine photos of his Mac. C'mon Andrew - make her famous!

    - Norm

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    That's one! Uh--two--I get a vote!
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    You guys are too kind...

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Kind, hell. I want that in my magazine.
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Why not delete this post and begin a new thread? Then you don't walk on this topic. Plenty here are happy to help. Also in Canoe Sailing Magazine.
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    I had a standing lug rig on my 12 foot skiff, and while it performed satisfactorally overall, it had one major drawback. In stronger winds the unstayed mast would bend thus decreasing the the length between gaff and tack, with the result that the luff would sag and the sail would become fuller in shape just when you don't want this. I changed the rig to gaff, with the luff laced to the mast. Now when the mast bends the sail is flattened, and the so the boat is much more efficient sailing to windward, is easier to to keep upright, and a pleasure to sail in stronger winds. The only drawbacks with the gaff rig are that two halyiards are required, and you need to pull the luff of the sail down when lowering, which, as another correspondent noted, is not easy in a small, tender, craft (but you can readily 'scandalize' the gaff). The drawback to the lug as I have described may be less in a sailing canoe compared with the skiff, since the greater beam of the skiff would generate more power in the rig.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Here's a sailing canoe built by Ed Frey of Fortuna, CA. Sounds like the rig is close to the one suggested above.






    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Old boat, Thorne, how'd you come by it?
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Not mine, currently owned by my friend John (last photo above) and his wife Pia in the Eureka CA area. Not too old, builder Ed is still alive and kicking...top photo from left to right = Ed, John, Pia.
    Last edited by Thorne; 02-20-2009 at 11:24 AM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    ...so it's just an oil finish, that's why it's black? Doesn't look like paint.
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Yep, Ed's boat soup mix. She leaks enough when drysailed to require being sunk for a day before use...

    More pics -

    http://www.luckhardt.com/biglagoon9-...agoon9-06.html

    http://www.luckhardt.com/big-lagoon-06/

    Let's not hijack this thread any further, OK?

    ;0 )
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    Yes, dear....
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Sailing rigs for MacGregor canoe

    I'm curious how your leeboard(s?) attach to the side of the canoe with the coaming/deck attached. Any chance of a closeup photo of this area?

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