Truly Huge Projects

[Peter H]

About a month ago, I went down to Mobile to look at the 1918 Lawley Yawl, 68' LOD, called White Wings. It was truly impressive, sitting there in her slip, despite her sad state. It was mostly gutted, leaking visibly in spots, rotted decks, rotted thru in some of the massive double sawn frames. Prior to this, I had never entertained the notion of buying a wooden boat, for all the sensible reasons. But going thru her, examining the construction details, smelling the rich damp odor of oil and wood, I was awakened to the tremendous degree of skill, design, beauty and history the boat represented. I spent the next couple weeks feverisly trying to assess the rebuild effort. At first, I was shocked an surprised to find a complete derth of information regarding wood boat restoration. I found a couple relavent books at the library. I talked to a few friends with admittedly little experience w/ wood boats. In the end, after agonizing, I decided not to make an offer. I has sold since.

This long preamble leads up to this question: does anyone have any experience working on truly big boats? How do you fit and bend 2" thick strakes? How do you do keel work on a 35 ton boat? Is this size renovation completely outside the realm of possibility for a determined amateur?

[trull]

You ought to volunteer on a project to get a feeling for the enormity of this task.

[Ed Harrow]

Originally posted by Peter H:
But going thru her, examining the construction details, smelling the rich damp odor of oil and wood, I was awakened to the tremendous degree of skill, design, beauty and history the boat represented.

The essance of a wooden boat can be summed up in one word - bouquet. It's a smell that knocks me for a loop every time I get a wiff. Can you imagine a perfume - Eau de bateau de wood? Bob Cleek would loose all perspective in 2 seconds, LOL.

As to the serious parts of your question. I've hung out here for about two years. I've read every book I can get my hands on and, as you note, there are not a lot of books on repair/restoration of wooden boats. There are a lot more on the building of them, and to a certain degree those books are useful too, of course.

I look at our own project, and find that I still don't have my arms around it. Some jobs one can visualize and, if one can visualize it I think the odds are pretty good that one can do it. A project of that magnitude requires massive amounts of everything. That doesn't preclude the possibility of doing it, but it does mean that one has to have lots of time, money, talent, money, resources, money, friends, money, money. I suspect my grandfather could have done it, but I'm not certain about the money aspect, LOL. The reality of it is that there are some aspects of the job that simply can't be done alone. Look at the cover that I have built. I cannot imagine raising the arches by myself. There's no way that one person could do the work required on White Wings. One would need to create a group, a foundation, go for 501 status, and have at it.

Of course if one's name was Bill Gates, well it would be easier, wouldn't it...

[Ken Liden]

My project boat is an 83 foot Coast Guard patrol Boat. Generally speaking I was an novice when I started but over time I have become mucm much more savvy. Although mine is not a sail boat it still poses some of the same kinds of problems.

You must ask yourself if you indeed have the tenacity to stick to a project for several years. Thats how long it's gonna take. Do you have the time available? Will your income support the costs involved? Can you do most of the work yourself or will you have to hire people?

In the end I would again take on a large project but next time I would keep it down under 65 feet. It is cheaper all around.

[ken mcclure]

Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
...bouquet. It's a smell that knocks me for a loop every time...

Yep. Told ya. Boat Gas.

You can see what it looks like in Ed's progress report for this week.

[RGM]

Been there, done that. Still doing it. The suggestion to volunteer on a large project is a good idea. You get an opportunity to possibly learn some shipwrighting skills and learn what a nightmare these big projects can be. They tend to take on a life of their own. If you find another boat that tempts you get it surveyed by a reputable wood boat surveyor, then take (or send with pictures) the survey to a respected wood boat yard and ask for an estimate to restore or repair the boat including a time frame for the repairs. Be prepared to pay a few bucks for the estimate, it's worth it. Don't ask the surveyor for an estimate of the repairs, get a different opinion. This might help you put a large project in perspective. An amateur can certainly do it. Big bucks and lots of time will be required. To pull it off you'll need skill, knowledge and horsepower (un-common resources and the ability to keep going). Start small. Good luck

[Jamie Hascall]

For a great article on the vaguaries and surprises of such an undertaking, read the article on the restoration of the pilot schooner Alabama in WB #149. It was written by the leader of a very experienced team and made me very happy that I have only 30' of boat to deal with.

Good luck fending off that Eau de bateau de bois.

Jamie

[ken mcclure]

Peter, I have never done a big boat. I've barely started my small boat! I have, however, tackled large projects without a suite of tools and decades of experience. If you are serious about doing this, you need:

1. A place to work on the boat. This must be a place where the boat can reside for the months/years it may take to complete the job.

2. The willingness, the drive and the time to do the project - and most of all the support of your wife/family/significant other if there is any. Best if they join you in the project.

3. The ability to recognize times when you are truly over your head, and the ability to go ask questions when you're in that position. This is not one of those situations where doing the wrong thing is preferable to doing nothing.

4. The financial wherewithal to commit roughly 2 and 1/2 times the amount of money you thought you were going to spend.

I am of the belief that any project can be done by anyone who has the gumption to do it. After all, as they say "It's not rocket science."

Unless, of course, you are going to repower the boat "a la Brian Cunningham."

[Concordia41]

Hi Peter:

I'm the wife in a husband and wife team that's involved in what turned out to be a complete rebuild of a 41' boat.

All of the answers you've been given so far should be read and reread. Especially about things taking 2 1/2 times more money and time than you initially projected.

Also, not only do you need the time and finances, you need a location where you can protect her for the next few years while you do the work. That is just as important or maybe even more so than the time and financial aspects. You definately need a solid combination of the three.

We're a good 15 months into what we expected to be a 3-4 month project. A small hopeful part of me says that we should be in the water by November 2002 - just in time for the boat parade, but November 2003 is more realistic. How's that for underestimating!!!

The good news is that Dave cut her first new floor timber yesterday. Actually, he cut two. His rule for the day: "The Wife will not talk to the Husband when he's calculating an angle cut." Oh well, he says the first one is big enough to use for one of the smaller ones up forward.

[Dave Thibodeau]

Tom Griffin ,the new owner of White Wings, has recently posted a question on mixing of fastener types on this forum. He has a wonderful web site all about White Wings at:

http://www.gosail.net/

[Dave Thibodeau]

Tom Griffin ,the new owner of White Wings, has recently posted a question on mixing of fastener types on this forum. He has a wonderful web site all about White Wings at:

http://www.gosail.net/

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

I have helped replace planking on the 150 foot (LOD) Gazela of Philadelphia, and can say 4 inch planking looks daunting when you are used to 4/4 planking.
But there is something I overlooked when I first did it.
A larger boat has more gentle curves, so the planking is no harder to bend in than 1/4 inch planking on a little clinker boat.
The only harder part is moving a 30 foot plank that probably weighs 400 pounds or more.

[videoguy]

Rember do not start vast projects with half vast ideas

[paladin]

Listen to these guys......then....and then....Find someone from a large boat yard or an independent person that acts as a project manager on projects this size.....note that I said manager, because project management is a full time job unto itself. I have worked as project manager on craft up to about 165 feet and it's a full time job, every day, 10 hours a day and when I started my own 45 foot project it was three months before the first wood was cut and I watched evrything like a hawk and it still took 10 months with a full time crew of carpenters and such...in Thailand....

[Bob Cleek]

The "size" of a boat increases exponentially with the increase in length. Basically, working on a big boat is just a matter of having a bigger hammer and a smaller brain! Thank your lucky stars somebody else bought her!