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Thread: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

  1. #1
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    Default A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    I'm looking for a sail design for the Tennessee River /Lake system. In the Knoxville area we have a number of TVA lakes that are long and narrow. I could also reach the gulf of Mexico through the lock system, which would require a motor of some sort (although I don't want to pick a design on this one possibility).

    One of my favorite designs is from this site:

    http://feeblecrew.com/new_haven_shar...arpie.149.html

    I think that this boat is gorgeous, the sheer, low freeboard, stem and counter are gorgeous.



    I also see the benefit of Erster's design for my situation:



    I would like to hear from others about my thoughts.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Paul Denison; 12-29-2008 at 03:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Here is a trial design from the site:





    Last edited by Paul Denison; 12-29-2008 at 03:37 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Now the size of this boat is more than I can handle or afford, so I'm wondering how it would scale down to around 25 to 30 feet?

    Also from the site:

    The Carolina Sounds sharpies retained the excellent sailing qualities of the New Haven type and were well finished. The two-sail, two-mast New Haven rig was popular with tongers, but the schooner-rigged sharpie that soon developed (figs. 9, 11-18) was preferred for dredging. It was thought that a schooner rig allowed more adjustment of sail area and thus would give better handling of the boat under all weather conditions. This was important because oyster dredging could be carried on in rough weather when tonging would be impractical. Like the Maryland terrapin smack, the Carolina sharpie schooner adhered closely to New Haven principles of design and construction. However, Carolina sharpie schooners were larger than terrapin smacks, having an over-all length of from 40 to 52 feet. These schooners remained in use well into the 20th century and, in fact, did not go out of use entirely until about 1938. In the 1920's and 1930's many such boats were converted to yachts. They were fast under sail and very stiff, and with auxiliary engines they were equally as fast and required a relatively small amount of power. Large Carolina sharpie schooners often made long coasting voyages, such as between New York and the West Indies.

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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Stretch Rumbletumbleann 10% and change the cabin to suit. Its cat ketch rigged. Round the corners on the stern if you like:


    http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sa...tumbleann.html

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Interesting boats - and a good site. The 11 out of 12 crew sitting out on the plank sounds interesting....
    Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    We can literally sail the boat right along the edges of the marshes and look out for any nesting birds in complete comfort even though the bottom is more in line with a skipjack bottom with the vee. The freeboard is a bit higher than most because we use ours for pleasure and comfort carrying all the necessary gear keeping things completely dry. Its certainly does not weigh what the traditional ones of old times does either, which can be a tradeoff sometimes. Mamma surely approves!!!




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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Quote Originally Posted by erster View Post
    We can literally sail the boat right along the edges of the marshes and look out for any nesting birds in complete comfort even though the bottom is more in line with a skipjack bottom with the vee.
    Yes, I'd imagine a shallow vee (small deadrise) slightly heeled would draw very little water.
    Last edited by JimD; 12-30-2008 at 12:24 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Take a look at the Hampton Flattie from Chapelle's American Sailing Craft page 11. Plans available from the Smithsonian collection. I am building one to sail in similar conditions to what you described, and I think it is going to be an ideal boat. Less than two feet of draft, lots of beam and flair for stability, room for a small in-board and basic accomidations, fun and fast.

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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    The approach I take is in the present form of boating in these types of hulls, why not put the draft of the boat into dearise in the bottom, which I did and can be done sucessfully with a little care. The old work boats had its day and its reasons for being chunky planked across the bottom. But in a vee bottom the boat almost always weighs less simply because you can build with smaller scantlings, IMO. The garveys were also simular in builds and later on the chicken breated boats were built. The boats rides nicely in the chop too.

    But as far as sailing in shallow water, I personally can sail in the first pin hole which is about four inches or so with the vee bottom to enhance steering and pointing which is not the case with many of the flat bottom boats. Even with the board up, I can slip into an area in lite winds and still have enough helm to steer. But the most iportant part is that when in shallow water and you get hung up, just lay the boat over and release the foot in the case of mine and the boat slips right across the bar with less friction and bottom area. I mean even in the heaviest of winds, you ain't going over you know....

    Oh and FWIW, when I get my orders to wonder to the out of the way banks to get away from the crazies, the amount of points that I make with the ability to dine while under sail and also viewing nature at its finest.... If I wanted to partake in an ocean cruise, there are special ships made just for that also with a menu to compliment ones taste buds too.

    Last edited by erster; 12-30-2008 at 12:35 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Of course you've perused Reuel Parker's book, right? It has lots of plans and info.


    Here's his website: http://www.parker-marine.com/

    Another boat of interest might be Phil Bolger's "Birdwatcher" sharpie. It hardly resembles anything like a traditional sharpie, but it definitely has some unique and advantageous attributes.


    If you like non-traditional, do a search for his AS-19, too.

    CLC has plans for a more traditional sharpie: http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/s...C-SHARPIE.html

    A sharpie sounds perfect for Lake Loudon, et al. Wish I'd had one when I was growing up in Knoxville!

    Dave Gentry

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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Hey Erster,
    You've probably been thought this all many times before, but I guess I missed it. I would like to hear more about your boat. I take it you sail a sharpie with some deadrise. Is it from a plan ? a plan of your own design? I'm very interested...

  12. #12
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Thanks for the replies all. Dave, as you know Fort Loudon can get narrow in places and the wind is not steady by any means. Also, how do these boats point? I can see myself in the narrow channel with a barge coming down on me, or maybe the Vol Navy!

    I need to get Parker's book, it's on my list. Mike, how does your boat point? Is one sail plan better than the other?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Look, here is one in my backyard. I would prefer something with a place to sleep for two.

    - PRICE REDUCED TO $5000 - $4800
    1988 Classic New Haven Sharpie 18'x5' open day sailor w/round stern, 3 mast steps, ex. galv. trailer. Built to highest standards in marine ply, glass/epoxy, sassafras superstructure. Total refurb. this year. Brand new cypress floorboards. Original owner has sailed her a thousand miles and she is as sweet as they get...and ready to go! $5750. obo. Possible delivery in S.E. -

  14. #14
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Denison View Post
    Look, here is one in my backyard. I would prefer something with a place to sleep for two.


    1988 Classic New Haven Sharpie 18'x5' . -
    What happened to 25 - 30 feet?

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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Oyster's sharpie looks nice!

    A boat in ply and googe that has been discussed at length(search the archives) is Bolger's Black Skimmer. A cabin, but dead simple, there's very little in the way of built in furniture. You stretch your bedroll out on the bottom. Around 25 ft. Quite able by reputation for the type. A trip across the Gulf of Mexico or to the Bahamas would be doable with some care. Camp cruising, but that's what you are looking at in a 25 ft. sharpie.
    So many questions, so little time.

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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    In the current number of WB (Jan/Feb 2009) is a piece by Mike O'Brien (p.87) on a beaching sharpie called Cap'n Frank designed by Robert P. Beebe that might give you some ideas. Evidently the plans were lost but some drawings survive, along with similar plans by the designer.

    The tandem centreboards are unusual, but free up cabin space.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Now this one of Parker's is nice.



    27-foot New Haven Sharpie Of all the boats in The Sharpie Book, this one probably epitomizes the sharpie. I also feel that this is the most beautiful and fine-lined of all the craft, having excellent proportions and form. I adapted my design for amateur construction in plywood/epoxy from Chapelle’s Fig. 39 in American Small Sailing Craft.
    The model is a late version of the one-man, or 100-bushel boat, as they commonly appeared in the late 1880’s and early ‘90’s. Chapelle took the lines from an abandoned hulk in 1932 at New Haven, Ct. He stated that she represents the most highly-developed type of one-man sharpie, and notes that her stern was slightly lower than those of earlier models, giving her a better shape for yachting and racing.
    The boat shown in this photo was built by amateur builder Doug Zemp—his first-time project! He added the “winter house” and jib, that I drew as options for the boat. He wrote to say that the boat is an excellent performer and a delight to sail!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Quote Originally Posted by Nels View Post
    Hey Erster,
    You've probably been thought this all many times before, but I guess I missed it. I would like to hear more about your boat. I take it you sail a sharpie with some deadrise. Is it from a plan ? a plan of your own design? I'm very interested...
    Mike had a great thread that I and many others followed on her construction. I can't find it now.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    There is a thread about pointing with sprit rigs. The better rig is the cat ketch set up. In my sprit rig, I rigged the main with a bridle to the stern and can stretch the foot even further and its discussed in this thread. Also with my setup, a lapping jib is the ticket, but caution needs to be adhered to in heavier winds. For that I have another jib which really makes the boat. I also can backwind the jib for taking in close hauled and heavy running current. You can also use a sprit boom with a sprit rig if you go that way.
    http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87068

    As far as the building thread, that one like several other building threads was deleted when the lack of any moderator allowed the threads to be trashed by bilge like attacks which continued for many many postings. If you notice on my new one, simular action has begun to creep into the thread which seems to have a way of finding boat threads when some get bored I guess.

    But I will gather a couple of photos and show the bottom on my last two simular hulls later as I must report to duty on the "Chariot" now.
    Last edited by erster; 12-30-2008 at 06:14 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Paul, one issue that you need to think about is the stepping of the mast if you do not keep it in the water. Thats a serious issue in one of those older style hulls.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    What happened to 25 - 30 feet?

    Did I say that? But it's in my backyard!

  22. #22
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Quote Originally Posted by erster View Post
    Paul, one issue that you need to think about is the stepping of the mast if you do not keep it in the water. Thats a serious issue in one of those older style hulls.

    I have a large driveway and there is also a club nearby with mooring, so I'm not decided.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    What's wrong with the forum, the posts are getting out of order!?

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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Denison View Post
    What's wrong with the forum, the posts are getting out of order!?
    That's an improvement. Usually half of them are way out of line...There are quite a few really sweet looking small sharpies, 18 feet or so. Quick and easy to build. Wish I lived someplace where they made sense.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Cmd Windward 21

    Selway Fisher Drake 18

    Bolger Jinni 16



    Benford cat ketch 18


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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Don't overlook Ian Oughtred's Haiku, either. http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/m...gallery?KID=74

    One thing about long-skinny inland lakes. You're always sailing upwind or downwind. You really want a rig optimized for upwind work -- if not you'll be motoring half the time.

    Another thought on the mast stepping issue -- will you have low bridges to deal with? If so, a mast that pivots in a tabernacle is a must.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Hi Paul; If your search "Why not a Sharpie", towards the end of the the 3rd page there are several pics of an 18' Parker designed Sharpie I built in 06. Somewhere in that same thread are comments I made, "Seagull" about the hull. She was easy and fast to build. Luckily had an old Stonehorse Sitka Spruce mast from which I got out the Sharpie stick that weighs some 25-35lbs. She sails very very well as the pics may indicate to you, is easily single handed and is all together a great no nonsense, carefree kind of rig ment to be sailed and enjoyed with out too much fuss. I can e-mail you more pics should you so desire. One point about sharpies I come to appreciate as I got into the research of this type hull: its a deceptively simple hull design but very sensitive to porportion and line. These hulls evolved over many years when boats were built of wood and could and were easily changed ever so slightly untill further change yielded no additional improvement in perofrmance. Good luck with your search in the comming New Year.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Don't overlook Ian Oughtred's Haiku, either. http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/m...gallery?KID=74

    One thing about long-skinny inland lakes. You're always sailing upwind or downwind. You really want a rig optimized for upwind work -- if not you'll be motoring half the time.

    What do you suggest?

    Another thought on the mast stepping issue -- will you have low bridges to deal with? If so, a mast that pivots in a tabernacle is a must.
    The bridges are not an issue here, but if I trailer it to Florida that may be an issue.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    Quote Originally Posted by Seagull View Post
    Hi Paul; If your search "Why not a Sharpie", towards the end of the the 3rd page there are several pics of an 18' Parker designed Sharpie I built in 06. Somewhere in that same thread are comments I made, "Seagull" about the hull. She was easy and fast to build. Luckily had an old Stonehorse Sitka Spruce mast from which I got out the Sharpie stick that weighs some 25-35lbs. She sails very very well as the pics may indicate to you, is easily single handed and is all together a great no nonsense, carefree kind of rig ment to be sailed and enjoyed with out too much fuss. I can e-mail you more pics should you so desire. One point about sharpies I come to appreciate as I got into the research of this type hull: its a deceptively simple hull design but very sensitive to porportion and line. These hulls evolved over many years when boats were built of wood and could and were easily changed ever so slightly untill further change yielded no additional improvement in perofrmance. Good luck with your search in the comming New Year.
    Thanks, I'll look.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: A Sharpie for the Tennessee River/Lake system

    The issue with stepping the mast pertains to the overall weight and length in the 27' shown and with the Egret hull if you intend to store and sail your boat off a trailer. Of course that depends on the constuction methods too. But 10 foot is not allowed without a permit in most states, or has been my experience. Even the king mackeral sport fishing boats just finished dealing with this very issue going from state to state with the oversize trailers and load.

    I have mine on a tabernacle rig with the gaff rig and it actually steps to the keel which keeps the mast to a minimum and loads down low. But most of the cat ketches such as the B&B designs for the mid 20 footers all have pivot points at the foot of their mast and can be stepped easily because of their short length and setup.
    Seagull I posted your boat on one of the threads and may still be around somewhere, but maybe too small for his desires from what he is saying. But like most of the cat ketch rigs, they sail upright most of the times unless you push them hard in big winds.

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