Ideal tender

[RFNK]

Sorry if this question has been asked many times already, and I'm happy to be referred to existing threads etc., but:
I have the plans for a nutshell pram (the smaller) but I'm not quite sure if it's the ideal tender for our Folkboat. It must tow very well and be light enough so that I can carry it easily over fairly deep mud at low tide in our area (Port Stephens, Oz). It has to be stable and safe as conditions can be very rough around our mooring. It must look the part! The nutshell satisfies all criteria except the weight, and I'd have to say that it's probably a bit unrealistic to think that I can build anything much lighter that will do the job. It's probably what I'll build but I would be grateful for other suggestions. Rick

[paladin]

Good choice...use good materials.....

[rbgarr]

Once again this specific claim about prams being dangerous. Compared to what in the same size range??

It's occurred to me that honeycomb panels and stiffeners could be used for building a Nutshell. It may be more subject to puncture damage but might make for an intermediate weight between the extreme light weight of a Geodsic pram and standard Nutshell construction.

[James McMullen]

I think the warning is not about prams in general but against very small prams--which could be extended against very small boats of whatever flavor. There is a certain minimum bouyancy needed to float a couple of adults with adequate freeboard and stability. An eight foot pram is a reasonably safe minimum-size tender. A six-foot pram is a guaranteed swimming lesson for two when you encounter a speedboat wake in the harbor. I have been very satisfied with a couple different eight foot prams as ship-to-shore tenders for two adults and a bag of groceries--though now that our puppies are dogs, I am thinking about building the next size bigger tender--nine or even ten feet--to give us more load capacity.

My favorite quick to build 8 foot pram design right now is the Eastport Pram design that CLC offers. It tows better in choppy water than the Nutshell from my direct observation. I sold my Eastport a few years ago to build a traditional cedar-on-oak lapstrake pram, but if I don't build a bigger one, I'd definitely consider building another one to go back to a lighter-weight and lighter maintenance tender.

[rbgarr]

James-

He's made the same claim about prams without reference to size elsewhere. IIIRC an experience with a badly designed one and difficulty he himself had reboarding one from a capsize put him off them. I just don't agree with him and think that good prams are a wise choice for a small tender. The small Nutshell at 7' 9" is about the minimum, I agree.

[BarnacleGrim]

I have been thinking of a tender myself. Storing it in the Marina could be problematic, so I'm thinking of building a WoodenWidget folding dinghy. That way I can keep it on deck while under way or moored, and only bring it out when I need it.

[TerryLL]

Why not go with the larger Nutshell? Only 10 pounds difference for considerably more capacity and some added stability.

[Clinton B Chase]

It is hard to not love this pram...ideal size and very very light

http://www.brooksboatsdesigns.com/about.html

Cheers,
Clint

[JimConlin]

Cedar strip composite (1/4" strips and 6 oz. glass) weighs about the same as 6mm. okoume (about 0.6 #/ft^2), it's appreciably stiffer, can tolerate more knocks and requires less interior framing.

I agree that a 7'6" x 4' pram is a practical minimum. 55 lbs. is an achievable weight for one.

[James McMullen]

That Compass Harbor pram Clint mentions looks just right. The rounded-er the dinghy is, the less the jumbled waves in a tide rip slew her around. The very worst towing dinghies in rough water are hard chine ones like a Sabot or a Bolger Tortoise. The chines will dig in and cause them to surge from side to side in broaching waves where a little round-bottom pram like that rides like a duck.

[Ian McColgin]

One nice thing about the Folkboat is that a 8' or smaller pram of the right design could well fit over the coach with the stern extending a bit over the bridge deck. If you make a removable stern transom, you have a nice rigid dodger. It's worth a bit of work to have a dink on deck, not behind.

I don't think you'll have much joy dragging the dink over mud. The wheels my dink has manage fine over any mud that's not too thick to walk in - sinking about to the ankles but not much deeper. My wheels are about 8" diameter and a bit over 3" thick. Each rides on an aluminum box section that pins to channel sections in the transom, so they can be flipped up or down. Very nice.

A small dink like this should have two rowing stations so you can be balanced rightly solo or with a passenger. There should be a notch or oarlock in the transom to facilitate sculling and to guide the rode when you're rowing out an anchor in a hard chance.

Finally, I think some sort of center board or better a side board (a lee board that's pinned so it works on either tack) is essential even if you don't sail. You really can't row well against Gale (wind 35 knots or so) but with a board down you can tack up as rowing three points or so off the wind becomes easy, once leeway has been conquered.

G'luck

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Try the Bolger Elegant Punt.
It is really just a weekend job to build one.
Light, dynel the bottom and you can drag it anywhere.

http://www.instantboats.com/epunt.htm

If you want an old wider one (4 foot not 3'6"), a bit heavier than the original, pm me in Sydney.

[RFNK]

Thanks everyone! Many good ideas there already, and plenty of helpful advice. I still have the dinghy that was built for the Folkboat back in the early 60s but it's beyond restoration as a practical dinghy for everyday use. I will restore it for historical value one day though. When I get back to Australia, I'll post a picture of it. It looks like a boat cut in half. As Ian says, you can put a dinghy on the deck of a Folkboat, extending over the coachhouse. This dinghy's been designed for that. I've never had it in the water so I don't really know how it would perform. I'll post some pictures of it in a couple of weeks and gather opinion on how it would perform. There is some appeal in reproducing this dinghy, but, as the nutshell is so highly regarded, I've looked more at building that. I'll check out the other suggestions too and see if I can make a decision. I'll also look at using Ian's idea re wheels. Thanks again, Rick

[paladin]

Strip planking mentioned by Jim Conlin is a good way to go...although instead of glass I would use two layers of Xynole fabric...lighter and more puncture resistant.

[Steve Paskey]

Paul Fisher's Greenshank is another possibility.

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Otherupto10.htm#GR

It's a 7'6" pram, said to weigh 55 pounds when built with 6 mm ply. She can be built in lapstrake ply, but the plans also include plank shapes for a stitch-and-tape version.

[johngsandusky]

Light weight cuts both ways. Easier to carry, bounced by chop, blown by wind. My old Glen-l topper, 11', probably 150 lbs, could be dragged up and down the beach, rowed until it blew 30. Some villains stole it. Then the DEC ordered (!) the town to move all the dinghies off the beach, up a bank. I bought an Oughtred Mouse, about 60 lbs. Easy enough to carry, but blows off between strokes in a moderate breeze. I Gave it to my Dad. Next one should either be 80 lbs, or take-apart. Then I'll carry it to the water in halves.

[Kevin G]

The "Dulcinella" by Jordan Boats in Oregon looks like qute a pretty little (10") dink. Lapstrake, traditional looking pram. Hope to be starting one after the holidays.

KG

Jordanwoodboats.com

[RFNK]

There's also a nice little strip planked dinghy by David Payne Yachts in Sydney http://www.payneyachts.com/dinghies.htm Little Stripper that I'll check out. It might be a bit heavy. I accept the advice re weight (above) but this is serious mud I'm talking about! Rick

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I too have managed to flip a 6 foot pram. I tend to think that 8' x 4' is the minimum safe size for a tender if you want to step onto or off a boat.
Bouyancy tanks are a must too. It is EXTREMELY difficult to pull yourself up onto the deck of today's high freeboard boats unaided, and you cant bail a dinghy without tanks.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

A Bolger Elegant Punt for example?

[paladin]

Andrew....I would compare the stuff you call mud to recently poured cement.....in your travels if you find a right foot boot to a pair of yellow Henri Lloyd sea boots with the initials COP near the top, please call....I left one sucked down near Falmouth.

[kayakn]

build the nutshell out of balsa!!! i saw somewhere where they where building these kayaks that where made of balsa wood.

[RFNK]

I've thought of building it out of foam sheet too but either way you'd have to glass both sides of the whole boat, so the weight saving might not be worth it. I'll probably just use the recommended ply - it's what the designer intended after all. Thanks, Rick

[Tom3]

Sorry if this question has been asked many times already, and I'm happy to be referred to existing threads etc., but:
I have the plans for a nutshell pram (the smaller) but I'm not quite sure if it's the ideal tender for our Folkboat. It must tow very well and be light enough so that I can carry it easily over fairly deep mud at low tide in our area (Port Stephens, Oz). It has to be stable and safe as conditions can be very rough around our mooring. It must look the part! The nutshell satisfies all criteria except the weight, and I'd have to say that it's probably a bit unrealistic to think that I can build anything much lighter that will do the job. It's probably what I'll build but I would be grateful for other suggestions. Rick

We have 17 years of Nutshell use as a tender coastal sailing and find it just about ideal. It's our second pram replacing an 8'er that worked until the family out grew it.

It tows like a cork (we have a few thousand miles to know), rows so well that you actually want to, and provides some of our best sailing along the shore.

I think the smaller Nutshell would make a good tender as long as you will have no larger load than say 2 people and a little gear. If you have much more, I'd highly recommend the larger 9'6". It's a wonderful sailboat as well and still performs quite well with two adults and a couple small kids. It too rows very well with this same load.

I'm told by others, the smaller Nutshell doesn't do well under sail with more than one aboard. Rowing deteriorates as well with any loading.

At any rate, it's the smallest tender I would consider with the right loading. We lost a man this spring in our tight little harbor when his Dyer dinghy (8' or less?) capsized with another man and little gear onboard.

Few things are more dangerous in my mind (especially after that incident) than an undersized tender.

[RFNK]

Thanks all, and I certainly take the point re the small tender. The boat's a Folkboat so it's rare that we have much aboard the tender. I'm happy to make the extra trip if necessary anyway. I'll build the smaller Nutshell, as I already have the plans and just see how it goes. I think it will be big enough for us. By the way, I bought a very cheap and nasty fibreglass pram dinghy a few years ago and did manage to tip that over while trying to reach over for a can I'd dropped overboard. It was winter and the current was quite strong. I lost a phone and various other bits and pieces but, had I not been able to grab the mooring rope and the dinghy at the same time, things actually could have been more serious. It was nearly dark and there was no one around, so it was a bit spooky for a little while. I'm confident that the Nutshell will prove a much better boat. Thanks everyone for all the ideas and help. Have a great Christmas. Rick