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Thread: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

  1. #1

    Default Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    The suggestion from the sail maker was to do more or less this.... Any thoughts ?



    This means that the drum and swivel are lightweight and don't have to support the kind of tension that a forestay would.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    This is a common dinghy setup - the drum and swivel do have to stand the tension and the external forestay just holds the rig in place until the jib halyard is tensioned.

    Fittings available from Harken, Holt , Ronstan, Barlow but avoid the Endless Loop alternative to the drum.
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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Don't use the headstay, put it inside the jib.
    It is going to foul as shown.
    Harken makes a couple of small sized furlers that will do this.
    Even if the rated luff tension is exceeded the Harken furler will not "fail" catastrophically.

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Sometimes the whole shebang is available from used sail lofts - sails, hardware and all. Bacon Sails in Anapolis had some a few years ago. Depending on the size of the boat and type of rigging / spars, you may be able to use rolling furler sails from racing dinghies, SF Pelicans, etc.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    I already have the sail. I will be making up the mast & rigging myself. I was wondering if there's anything other than making sure that there's sufficient distance from the fib to the forestay...

    Why would it foul ?

    D

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Has the sail got a wire luff?

    The reason to expect a foul/wrap is that once the luff is loaded the forestay sags and unless there is a substantial separation the two parts meet.
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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Your jib should be built / designed for roller furling. If so, it may be best to put it on a particular type of hardware -- what does your sailmaker say?
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    I tried that as per the drawing - also on a 14' dink. As Canoeyawl D and Salzer-Newt said, it fouls the forestay. I just removed the forestay and let the luf wire hold up the rig. It only got used to furl the jib. The Harken gear was finastkind IMHO.

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    I have been happy to use a Harken high load furler with no forestay.The only occasional problem is fouling the spinnaker halyard.If you may want to secure the mast while hoisting or lowering the jib an enclosed mast gate is almost mandatory in the absence of a forestay.

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    My Mirror 16 had roller furling. One day the little clevis pin that held the stay to the rod upon which the drum, etc, turned fell out. Of course I didn't know this... Fortunately the whole kit and kaboodal (SP?) fell over before we even launched the boat.

    Anyway, it worked a treat (other than that). It was made by Holt-Allen. There was no separate forestay, and I don't understand why one would do it that way. I don't see any advantage.
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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Tasars have a furler without an additional forestay.

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    CDI Flexible Furler (FF1)

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    You can use both a headstay to hold the mast up when the jib is not installed and the luff wire in the jib with the small Harken-style furlers but - there does need to be a few inches of space between them to prevent fouling. When the jib is hoisted, ALL of the headstay load should be carried by the jib wire/jib halyard system. The fixed headstay should be slack and sagging a little bit (hence the need for a bit of space between them). This is needed to generate adequate luff tension for proper jib shape. It means that, in addition to the jib luff wire, the entire jib halyard system (line, sheaves, cleats, etc.) needs to be strong enough (and in the case of the halyard line, stretch-resistant enough) to withstand the headstay loads.

    In some cases, it's easier to simply not use a headstay and step the mast using the furled jib and its wire in place of a headstay (Melges 24s, Ultimate 20s and some other boats do this). It's a bit cleaner aerodynamically and less prone to fouling but does mean that the jib is on the boat any time the mast is up.

    Last point - Depending upon whether the furling line meets the drum and starts wrapping around it on the forward side of the drum or the aft side, you can change the direction that the drum turns while furling (clockwise or counter-clockwise). Take a careful look at the lay of the strands on your jib luff wire and the direction its strands are twisted together. You will have the options of approaching the drum with the furling line from either the boat's port side or starboard side and meeting the drum on it's forward side or aft side. Just be sure that whatever you do, the process of furling the sail turns the drum so that it tightens the lay of the jib wire - not loosens it (which isn't good for the wire).

  14. #14

    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Has the sail got a wire luff?

    The reason to expect a foul/wrap is that once the luff is loaded the forestay sags and unless there is a substantial separation the two parts meet.
    Yes, it has a wire luff...

    now that makes sense.... Thanks

  15. #15

    Thumbs up Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    You can use both a headstay to hold the mast up when the jib is not installed and the luff wire in the jib with the small Harken-style furlers but - there does need to be a few inches of space between them to prevent fouling. When the jib is hoisted, ALL of the headstay load should be carried by the jib wire/jib halyard system. The fixed headstay should be slack and sagging a little bit (hence the need for a bit of space between them). This is needed to generate adequate luff tension for proper jib shape. It means that, in addition to the jib luff wire, the entire jib halyard system (line, sheaves, cleats, etc.) needs to be strong enough (and in the case of the halyard line, stretch-resistant enough) to withstand the headstay loads.
    Excellent, that makes sense.
    In some cases, it's easier to simply not use a headstay and step the mast using the furled jib and its wire in place of a headstay (Melges 24s, Ultimate 20s and some other boats do this). It's a bit cleaner aerodynamically and less prone to fouling but does mean that the jib is on the boat any time the mast is up.
    Since this will be a trailer sailer, the mast should only be up when I'm out sailing. I guess if I ever camped over night with the nippers, then the sail would have to stay up... Not sure which is the better option, but at least now I understand the problems..
    Last point - Depending upon whether the furling line meets the drum and starts wrapping around it on the forward side of the drum or the aft side, you can change the direction that the drum turns while furling (clockwise or counter-clockwise). Take a careful look at the lay of the strands on your jib luff wire and the direction its strands are twisted together. You will have the options of approaching the drum with the furling line from either the boat's port side or starboard side and meeting the drum on it's forward side or aft side. Just be sure that whatever you do, the process of furling the sail turns the drum so that it tightens the lay of the jib wire - not loosens it (which isn't good for the wire).
    Thanks for that Todd, I would not have thought about tightening / loosing the lay of the wire.

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    It looks like all good information already posted. FWIW, this is a picture of the one(s) I designed and built for my boat. I use the forestay and leave it in place. I made the drum and all of the hardware, less the swivels. I tried using only the luff wire in the sail, but the swivels I am using would not work under that load, even though they are rated for 1500#.

    This is a picture of a mock up for a smaller furled sail to be used when the winds pick and I stow the larger (forward) jib. Can't fly them both at once. I generally use the forward jib (larger) and thoroughly love the furler.

    BTW, I have never had a fouling problem leaving the forestay in place.

  17. #17

    Thumbs up Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Many thanks for that.

    You just can't beat pictures.

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Rejuvenating a long-dead thread with a question in a similar vein.

    If I ordered a 33sq ft roller reefing jib from a sailmaker with a "low stretch rope" forestay to be used on a small (20 foot) outrigger canoe, should I reasonably expect that it would fit small boat roller reefing systems like those from Ronstan and Harken? Their tolerance for diameter of connecting to the tack and head are 3/16". Am I at fault for thinking that "low stretch rope" meant dyneema not some really big double braid, and therefore did not specify a wire forestay in error?

    Essentially, I can't fit my jib tack or head into the roller reefing system I'd like to use. Can I just attach the jib tack and head to the drum and swivel with a no-twist connector, such as a metal shackle, or should I send the jib back to replace the 7/16" diameter rope and metal thimble with a wire?

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    There is a difference between "roller reefing" and "roller furling". Most of the small systems, like the Harken are furlers, not reefers. This is because the top and bottom swivels do not turn the same amount at the same time. They will roll a sail up, but not roll it consistently for reefing. Trying to reef with one will usually yield awful sail shape and eventually ruin the sail. In use, most of these are designed to take the headstay's load off the standing rigging headstay, and transfer that load to the jib luff wire to keep the luff tight enough. Whether or not your luff rope will do the job will depend on exactly how much stretch it has (or doesn't have) and how strong it is. You can usually tap the thimbles at the ends of the luff wire or rope a bit with a hammer and flatten them a little bit if the fit in the swivels is really tight.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Great rigging tips Todd! Thanks. I got a #1 Wykeham-Martin furler that I'm going to install on this boat, with the base mounted a few inches aft of the forestay (for the time being). Climbing up on the foredeck to hank and unhank the sail while on the mooring has become a bit 'tiddly'.

    There's a wire luff and four hanks currently. If the furler works well I suppose I'll take off the hanks and may eliminate the forestay. They are bronze pistons that have been bent around the sail's embedded wire and through the grommets. Any idea whether I would I saw them open or 'unbend' them?

    http://www.gartsideboats.com/custom-...esign-113.html
    Last edited by rbgarr; 08-01-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Unbend - usually starting with a flat blade screwdriver and widening the gap by tapping the handle end of it with a small mallet or hammer. Expect most of them to break their little legs off in the process, as they tend to be rather brittle. Those which don't break will most likely break later if you ever intend to install them elsewhere. Even when new, you have to be pretty careful installing them, as one tap too many is exactly that. Or... you can cut their legs off with the Dremel and a cut-off wheel. Just watch the heat. If the grommets make annoying humps in your furled sail, they can also be removed and the holes covered with small circles of adhesive insignia Dacron. You take a really tiny screwdriver and pry the grommet edges just far enough apart in one spot to get a grip on both sides with small vice grips or a couple pairs of pliers. Then you peel them apart.

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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Until or if you get the furler, you can rig a simple downhaul
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    Default Re: Furling jib on a 14 foot sailboat...

    Or....if your mast will stand up without a headstay, or has a separate headstay, you can also do a self-staying jib. If you make sure you have a long halyard, you can just ease it, grab the sheet and pull the whole jib down into the cockpit. Goes back up quickly as well.


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