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Thread: Redwing update

  1. #2941
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I saw Redwing on Tuesday, she's a credit to you Gary.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  2. #2942
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Hit em with the chainsaw pics first, that should get their attention………..
    That was the plan Jeff.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  3. #2943
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Would that be a McCulloch or a Still? Seen the whole side of a ply boat removed with a chainsaw in less than 10 minutes.... brutal, but effective!
    I'll get to that...but first...
    In the last week of June last year I finally managed to sail into another port albeit only 15 nautical miles away. I was heading for a place called Boatworks to haulout for a week to fix some pretty bad rot that had developed. Redwing had sat under a tarp for 15 years prior to me getting her finished, this had done her no favours. On the day we left I had found even more rot that depressed me further till my crew mate turned up with coffee and some breakfast. The trip up the coast and in through the Southport Seaway was uneventful as was finding our way to a dock at Boatworks. As my crew mate David left he uttered some fateful words...if you need a hand give me a call.
    20170628_133919.jpg
    Once hauled out, washed down and set up on the hard it was time to access the damage. A few pokes with a screwdriver soon showed I had a big job ahead of me.

    20170630_084833.jpg
    I knew I had rot around the chainplates and I was planning on removing them anyway. However I discovered the stubbon bolts could be removed simply by levering them straight through the plywood and backing blocks.
    20170630_084858.jpg

    Okaaay, how about the other spot I knew was soft on the port quarter?
    A bit of rot removal and I now have discovered the rot is right through the transom timber the beam shelf and at least two stringers.
    20170630_084820.jpg
    Now I know I also have rot in the beam shelf either side of the mast so now I know I'm am in deep trouble. There is no way my budget will cover this amount of work in the time I have allowed for it. I made a few woe is me phone calls and I even went over to the office to see if I could park the boat somewhere out of the way while I explore an extremely limited set of options. I can't sail it home, too dangerous. I can't ship it home, not rich enough and I can't repair it for the same reason. Chainsaw started to enter my mind, I'm going to have to scrap the boat I had put so much work into building. Luckily the office was closed, I walked back to the boat and rang David and told him the story...he'd be down the next day.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  4. #2944
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    David arrived and meanwhile I had hit up a couple of friends for a loan so where to start. David set his circular saw to 10mm and started in on the starboard side.
    20170701_112630.jpg
    I got started on the portside and discovered a sidedeck repair I'd done the previous year had been done with interior ply and had since delaminated. In the process I was discovering as was David on the other side that the beam shelf was pretty much shot all the way along. Over the next few days Redwing lost more and more of her structure.
    Beamshelf and sections of stringer totally shot- photo by David Webb.jpg

    australia2017 144.jpg

    australia2017 156.jpg

    australia2017 153.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  5. #2945
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    So numerous trips to hardware for marine ply and lengths of Merbau decking timber, the latter was used to replace the beam shelves and stringers.
    By this time it was my birthday and the kids gave me money instead of presents so financially it's not too bad. David had to go home for a few days as he was building a shipping container home. While he was away I concentrated on getting the side decks back on and cutting odd shaped bits of ply for the planking. It would have been nice to have stripped off most of the ply planking and just redo in full sheets but that wasn't to be.
    David returned and we got stuck into the re planking but first the new beamshelf had to go in.

    australia2017 150.jpg

    australia2017 151.jpg

    australia2017 152_1.jpg
    In repairing the transom David was discovering more and more rot right through the cockpit. He suggested we gut it and build a new one and drew up a new design that actually extended the cabin back a bit further and would allow a couple of quarter berths. I wanted to think about it.
    australia2017 155.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  6. #2946
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Those photos are scary Gary. I am sure there is plenty of people interested in seeing how you restored it.


    Mal
    Quest

    Moving slowly towards a Welsford Sundowner.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish??

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  7. #2947
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    With the planking progressing nicely and only days to go till we're supposed to go back in I said yes to the cockpit reno..well not much of a choice really what was still there was crap. But first some planking photos.
    australia2017 215.jpg

    australia2017 216.jpg
    While I continue with the planking David gutted the cockpit and got started.
    australia2017 210.jpg
    australia2017 212.jpg
    By this time the planking has been finished and I'm onto trimming, filling and my version of fairing. You will notice that the rot had extended into the cabin side as well.
    australia2017 213.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  8. #2948
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    australia2017 217.jpg
    australia2017 214.jpg

    The cockpit and cabin extension take place and I'm liking what I see.
    australia2017 220.jpg
    Note the proud bit of the outboard pad this was to create some drama later on.
    australia2017 219.jpg
    When we bolted the outboard bracket back on David said it this up the right way, with a brain in overload I couldn't remember and certainly didn't twig to the built in weakness of a piece of butt glued ply.
    australia2017 221.jpg
    Note the old main hatch, I decided to keep it but I have plans to change it.

    To be continued....
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  9. #2949
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The last 3-4 days were something of a blur of getting the hull and deck seam fibreglassed, exposed planking epoxied, pushpit back on, outboard hooked up and hull anitfouled. Boatworks gave me an extra night free so I was able to get a second coat of antifoul on plus a few other bits and pieces done.
    Launch day
    20170712_142715.jpg
    20170712_142930.jpg
    Motoring back down the river late afternoon, a following breeze and life is good. We reached the river mouth and entered the Broadwater just on sunset and with a fine south easterly blowing we turned north with the intention of spending the night at Tippler's Passage. We promptly ran aground, I'd gotten too close to the edge of the channel and found a narrow finger of shoal water. After about 20 minutes of bouncing on the bank and not being able to motor off I tried hardening in the sheet and we sailed off into deeper water.
    As it was now dark I decided we’d stay put for the night, but with a strong breeze and a long fetch it was far from comfortable. We had a chat about it and I decided we’d try a night motor to Tipplers, so up with the anchor and with Navionics lighting up the phone I did the 4 nautical miles in the dark without any trouble... apart from when Kerry informed me we were sinking. Looking in through the companion way I could see a lot of water running from somewhere under the cockpit to the bilge. A quick look showed it to be the outlet hose from the electric bilge pump, which due to lack of time hadn’t been ducted outboard. It was recycling water from a slow keelbolt leak... no doubt started when we ran aground.

    Okay good, we’re not sinking.

    Arriving at Tipplers, I chose to anchor just a little way in, as I didn’t know the area very well. Next morning dawned sunny but cool, so I told Kerry to stay comfortable in the cabin and I would take us further up and find a better anchorage. I started the outboard and raised the anchor, and put the outboard in reverse to give myself a bit more room to swing. I was horrified to see the outboard suddenly drop straight off the outboard bracket and disappear into the water. I yelled out what had happened to Kerry as I got the anchor back down. Standing in the cockpit, I had finally reached the end, I don’t want to do this anymore... Kerry took one look at my face and gave me a hug.

    I looked over the stern and was surprised when I realised I could see the outboard. My initial thought was oh, it’s not that deep, but then I realised it was hanging off the battery lead. I quickly got a line and put a loop in it> My thought was, if I can get a loop over the powerhead I can get it back onboard. So I’m trying to get this loop to sink down far enough, and Kerry says why don’t you use that hooky thing on a stick? Oh, you mean the boathook! It worked, with the outboard back on the bracket I pulled the plugs out and cranked the motor over to clear the water out of the cylinders. It still wouldn't start so the carby had to be full of water as well. Where we were was a bit exposed and if I was going to strip down the carby over the water I wanted a calmer spot. So I raised the anchor and put up 3 panels and we slowly moved further into the anchorage. To cut a long story short by the end of the day I had the outboard running sweetly once more...time for a beer.
    20170713_154244.jpg
    Kerry relaxing, as you can see Redwing is still looking pretty raw. Saw of the other yachties must have thought we were a bit rough as Redwing with her patchy topsides looked very vagabond. One yachtie rowing past wouldn't even look at us when I said hello.
    20170713_154250.jpg
    The plan had been to head on up into Moreton Bay and catch up with friends but considering the unfinished state of the boat we decided to head for home, however Kez suggested we at least stay another day at Tipplers. I didn't mind it was the first time in two weeks I'd relaxed.
    20170713_170159.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  10. #2950
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The next morning it was time to go ashore for a coffee and besides we hadn't practiced getting Kerry in and out of the dinghy.
    20170714_110839.jpg

    Getting back onboard for Kez was easy once I rigged the boarding ladder (for the first time). And then it was settle back for some serious relaxing.
    20170714_160806.jpg
    The next morning it was up early, anchor up and off. We had a light but very usable breeze back down to the Coomera River mouth.
    20170715_075034.jpg

    To be continued...
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  11. #2951
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Epic. 25 years to build the boat, and then you go and do all that in what, a week? Bloody ripper.

  12. #2952
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Yep. Nice sequence of photos Gary and well told.

    Rick

  13. #2953
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    ^ LOL. What Phil said. Never ceases to amaze me what people can achieve when they have to, or just driven. Have to ask what timber you originally used for your sheer stringers. The chainsaw job i saw was less patchwork, seemed to make sense timewise just to replace large squares, that damage done from a damaged sheer rubber and deck toe-rail that did not get repaired as soon as it should have been, leading to fresh water down the end grain......
    Kudos to you anyway. I also saw an outboard spinning off to bottom while running (hidden rot in the plywood bracket pad) but fortunate to collect it at low tide and had it running within an hour.
    Hopefully this will spur on some people who would generally think about giving up when finding so many issues.

  14. #2954
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Yep. Nice sequence of photos Gary and well told.

    Rick
    Cruising Helmsman has bought the full story to be published in December.
    As for the outboard thank God for the battery lead and that it held.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  15. #2955
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    ^ LOL. What Phil said. Never ceases to amaze me what people can achieve when they have to, or just driven. Have to ask what timber you originally used for your sheer stringers. The chainsaw job i saw was less patchwork, seemed to make sense timewise just to replace large squares, that damage done from a damaged sheer rubber and deck toe-rail that did not get repaired as soon as it should have been, leading to fresh water down the end grain......
    Kudos to you anyway. I also saw an outboard spinning off to bottom while running (hidden rot in the plywood bracket pad) but fortunate to collect it at low tide and had it running within an hour.
    Hopefully this will spur on some people who would generally think about giving up when finding so many issues.
    Original timber was Flooded gum. Eucalyptus grandis.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  16. #2956
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Well it doesn't take long to slip back down to page two eh.
    Right where was I?
    The entrance to the Coomera has what I call Millionaires Point, there are some seriously big expensives houses including one with a copper dome.
    This shot was actually taken on the first trip up the river.
    2017_0628_094349_003.jpg

    It's a long windy trip up to Boatworks be we got there and tied up in a vacant berth and went ashore for a coffee and lunch. Kez then hoped in the car and headed for home...I wandered off and had a shower and then started the equally long windy trip back down the river. After a while though I realised I didn't remember any of the scenery going past. A quick check of Navionics confirmed my suspicion and yes I'd taken a wrong turn. I was heading up the north arm of the river...so turn around or keep going...one more FU to add to the list. Stuff it, lets go exploring!
    After many twists and turns I finally came out the top end and in sight of Tipplers. The good news was a top northerly blowing so pushing the helm up I turned south.
    Screenshot from 2017-10-23 15-43-28.jpg

    A bit further down and Southport in sight.
    bw2.jpg

    The breeze stuck with me all the way to Bumm's Bay which was my next challenge, it's Saturday arvo and everyone man and his dog is going to be out on the water there. No to mention I have to find a spot to drop anchor. The later proved frustrating as all the sheltered spots in behind The Spit were taken up by boats most of which looked like they had been there a while. I ended up having to anchor off the VMR dock in quite an exposed spot where I rocked and rolled to the wake of every boat that went up and down the channel.
    20170715_161638.jpg
    But I did get treated to a fine light show when the storm came over.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  17. #2957
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    With rain and wind from the wrong direction a day of sloth was decreed for Sunday with reading, eating, sleeping the order of the day. Monday dawned bright with a light south westerly and the promise of a northerly change later. Time to go home.
    The wind was very light at about 5 knots and the GPS claimed I was doing 2.5 knots which was fine for a little while as I relaxed and watched a few whales.
    20170717_100249.jpg

    20170717_100257.jpg
    It wasn't to last though and I had to start the outboard if I was going to catch the flood tide over the Tweed bar. A direct course is around 150-155 degrees magnetic which put me about 3 NM off Burliegh Heads when I was abeam. The light wind was getting even lighter by this stage and dropped away altogether by the time I was off Tugan and Kirra. All I had leading up to the bar was an oily swell.
    20170717_110301.jpg


    My fuel tank is starting to get a bit low by this stage so it was a relief when the northerly kicked in as I crossed the bar...a bit earlier would have been nice.
    As you can see though it wasn't much better than the souwester but the flood tide was giving me a bit of a free ride.
    20170717_120704.jpg

    I dropped the rig once into Terranora Creek and with the tide pushing me along I shut down the outboard and added the few extra litres of fuel to the tank. Pulling into the berth a tourist fended off the bow for me and held her while I got a line or two on.
    I was home but there was still a lot of work to do.
    20170717_131605.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  18. #2958
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  19. #2959
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Since July the work has consisted of filling, fairing, shaping, fibreglassing and painting...combined with ongoing rot repair in a couple of spots in the cabin top.
    20170923_071228.jpg
    20170923_071341.jpg
    The work feels like it's in slow motion at times but cash and time constraints have that effect.
    20171001_121858.jpg

    20171001_121915.jpg

    20171105_111800.jpg

    Weather plays it's part as well, the last couple of months have been far too hot and humid for most of the day and now of course we're getting a fair bit of rain.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  20. #2960
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    20180217_170104.jpg
    One of the many mistakes I made during construction was to through bolt my grab rails, this has been a constant source of leaks and of course areas of rot have manifested. In this instance I cut the old grab rail off, then cut the bolts down to about 25mm in length. I made a new grab rail and drilled holes up from the bases, packed them with thickened epoxy and glued the rail back down onto the cabin top. I discovered another patch of rot around another grab rail today so I have to repeat the process. I am also fibreglassing the cabin top as I go.
    Another spot where I've had problems is the mast collar which is also through bolted with eyebolts. The eyebolts are anchor points for running rigging turning blocks. The rot here wasn't serious but still needed a bit of filling.
    20180217_170041.jpg

    These are chocks for the fuel tank which is to be tied down in the cockpit hard up against the transom.
    20180304_113635.jpg
    These have now been fitted but still need another coat of paint.
    Lastly an internal shot showing the old aft bulkhead and the new.
    20180309_210941.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  21. #2961
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Hi Gary,
    Blimey!....Well Done!! a lot of people would have given-up and scrapped it.
    You and the boat have survived the ordeal and can now reap the benefits of your determination to succeed.....I`ve been down very similar paths and know what you`ve been through....Relax and enjoy!

    Greetings from spring-like Germany,

    Alan

  22. #2962
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Hi Gary,
    Blimey!....Well Done!! a lot of people would have given-up and scrapped it.
    You and the boat have survived the ordeal and can now reap the benefits of your determination to succeed.....I`ve been down very similar paths and know what you`ve been through....Relax and enjoy!

    Greetings from spring-like Germany,

    Alan
    Hi Alan, as soon as I get the fuel tank hooked up I'm going for a sail...just to remind myself why I'm doing all this.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  23. #2963
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I thought flooded gum was a rot resistant type? Im no expert on Ozzy timbers. Great to see her back together. As an after thought though, if someone was to ask you if you would do anything different next time round to avoid all of the woes you have faced, what would it be?

    Any issue with your alloy battens yet?

  24. #2964
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Flooded gum was not the best choice and is certainly not used externally. I chose it because it was local, easy to get and bends without the need for steaming. I figured it would be fine if epoxy saturated and that has proved to be the case for most of the boat. However a prime weakness was the hull and deck join and that is where the moisture got in. If I could turn the clock back there are a number of things I would change. I would of course fibreglass all the deck and cabin. I would also glass the hull. I spent about five years getting the boat to lock up stage and then it spent fifteen years under a tarp with no maintenance and I am sure that was the cause of my woes. One other thing I would change is the cabin structure I’d do away with the side decks and take the cabin sides out to the hull and I would also give the cabin top a clean sweep forward instead of the present step down.
    Getting back to timber, Spotted Gum would have been by far the best choice but I would have had to source from further away and at the time it was a bit in the too hard basket.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  25. #2965
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I thought flooded gum was a rot resistant type? Im no expert on Ozzy timbers. Great to see her back together. As an after thought though, if someone was to ask you if you would do anything different next time round to avoid all of the woes you have faced, what would it be?

    Any issue with your alloy battens yet?
    The alloy battens are fine, I’ve pushed the rig a couple of times and nothing has bent or broken, except for the yard but that was a design flaw.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  26. #2966
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Gary, I don't think spotted gum would have lasted any longer than flooded in that application as I think it was the saturated unsheathed plywood that rotted, wasn't it? Spotted gum moves a lot more than flooded too so I think I'd prefer FG frames in a plywood boat to SG. Flooded gum is used a lot for planking by traditional boatbuilders in our area as it's durable, stable and lighter than SG and other durable hardwoods. But SG does have a higher durability rating than FG.

    Rick

  27. #2967
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    You may be right Rick. I built the boat on a very tight budget so instead of sheathing the hull I dyneled the chines and put four coats of Everdure on the hull topped with a two pack primer. The ply is Hoop pine as well.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  28. #2968
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Building to a price often has consequences, especially if neglected, i have pulled out a lot of mushy cheap builders pine from boats when the surrounding mahogany/iroko/oak has been fine. I have used it myself, but always carefull to saturate it it with good preserver and paint coating.....and more importantly....good ventilation.
    Yeah, cabin out to the sides really maximises space. I like Roger Taylors new Turbo Junk on "ming-ming2". I get concerned about the weight with junk, but his use of carbon tubes seemed to make the best of modern materials, though i have yet to find how much that rig set him back. I might revert to junk if i get major reefing issues with the balanced lug, much to be said for just lowering the halyard.

  29. #2969
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    When you compare the all up weight of a BM rig to a JR you may find the JR a bit lighter but I am guessing there. My mast weighed in at 87 kegs finished and the rig would be less than that. Your sail cloth can be lighter because the stresses are different and remember as you reef so the weight comes down.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  30. #2970
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    You may be right Rick. I built the boat on a very tight budget so instead of sheathing the hull I dyneled the chines and put four coats of Everdure on the hull topped with a two pack primer. The ply is Hoop pine as well.
    IMHO the only thing that would have saved the ply was to have CCA impregnated it before attaching it to the hull. A good friend of mine who ran a yard for years , doing all kinds of repair and is a tradesman boatbuilder to boot , uses CCA hoop pine and CCA marine ply for all his repairs.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  31. #2971
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Ah Mr Sibley I should have known you way back then.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  32. #2972
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I think we may have just met at CYSS or was the boat underway by then ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  33. #2973
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I think we may have just met at CYSS or was the boat underway by then ?
    I started construction in 86. We must have met before that as you were doing your toy making workshop early 80s.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  34. #2974
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    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    26,813

    Default Re: Redwing update

    Got in a few hours work today but nothing worth a photo. Mainly painting and fine tuning the fit on the new wash board set up and the replacement for the old main hatch. I will have the fuel tank refitted on Friday so given a nice day I shall cast off the umbilicals and go for a sail. On duty this Saturday so I should get a bit of work done over the weekend though I have two meetings to attend on Sunday.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  35. #2975
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    26,813

    Default Re: Redwing update

    Please Note this is not my sail but I wanted to show how good it can look when you do a really nice job.
    29196232_1482896868487886_7875342971288158208_n.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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