Redwing update

[WX]

Well all I can say is bugger!
It has been my understanding from what I have read that it was 316 below the water line and 304 above. Oh well the money is spent and the tube has been cut into 600mm lengths so I can't take it back...I'll use it. The stanchion bases I have are 304 as well.

[andrewpatrol]

Might be a silly idea but could you galvanise it?

[WX]

Might be a silly idea but could you galvanise it?

I'm going to go with it and if I have to replace them in a couple of years then so be it. The stanchion bases are 304 anyway. Getting galvanising done on such small items is near impossible these days. Epoxy coating with a two pot finish is the go now...and I could but I'm more interested in getting the next few yards and going sailing.

[Duncan Gibbs]

I'd rough up the surface first with an appropriate abrasive so the epoxy will be well keyed onto the metal and put epoxy into screw holes and then tighten them to just firm so there'll be a film of epoxy that can't be broken. Some kind of teflon gasket for the lifelines to pass through would be an idea as well. Should last for years that way.

[WX]

That would be the way to go if epoxying Duncan but I'm going to stay with the shiny...call me stubborn but what the hell. Where the lifelines run through the stanchions my idea is seize some plastic tubing either to the lifelines or the stanchions.

[Duncan Gibbs]

It won't stay shiny for more than a few weeks... At very best.

[WX]

3-4 weeks after I launch I give you permission to say I told you so.
Seriously though I would have to take the stanchion bases off and either replace them with 316 or somehow abrade and epoxy coat them. To be honest I really don't want to go back and redo stuff that will delay me launching longer than is already the case. I still have enough to do as it is and I'm not getting a lot of spare time at the moment.

[donald branscom]

There is nothing wrong with 304 stainless on a boat above the waterline.
If you get stainless weldments electropolished at the platers it will look
much better in the Heat effected zones around the welds.

You can Google that. Electropolishing stainless steel.

[RFNK]

Gary, if I were you I'd use spectra for your lifelines as it's easier to use then wire and more pleasant to have. You'll need to have hard grommets in the stanchions whatever you use - the harder the better but they have to be smooth.

Rick

[Duncan Gibbs]

At one of last offices before I went back to self employment, we designed a handrail/dune barrier for a new shared pathway along the ocean side of a beach suburb in Perth. The local authority client were looking at cost savings and went with 304 instead of either 316 or HDG & powder coated steel. Within four weeks of the completion of construction they were looking at costs for replacement using either of the latter options. The eventual bill blew the project budget by over half: This was about 6km of path we talking about!

Electropolishing will help in fairly mild environments (salt fogs), but not those subject to salt laden winds where mineral pitting sets of the whole process of corrosion. And once the rust begins there will be little to stop it other than pulling everything off and doing what you don't want to do now. Only then you'll be having to do all that work on a boat that's on a mooring.

Saving money (and time) today can be very costly tomorrow!

[Larks]

3-4 weeks after I launch I give you permission to say I told you so.
Seriously though I would have to take the stanchion bases off and either replace them with 316 or somehow abrade and epoxy coat them. To be honest I really don't want to go back and redo stuff that will delay me launching longer than is already the case. I still have enough to do as it is and I'm not getting a lot of spare time at the moment.

Are you sure the bases are 304 Gary? I really wouldn't expect anyone to be supplying 304 stanchion bases for a boat on a commercial basis. Take a magnet to one of them and see if it's magnetic, 304 will be, 316 won't be.

Not sure where Don gets the idea that there's nothing wrong with 304 on a boat - that's just not true.

I'd suggest check your hose clamps as well. The stanchions will stay upright and safe for quite a while but will tea stain quite quickly and will continue to rust so for most of the time it will be more of a cosmetic issue than a safety issue for you. But on any of your bilge hoses, exhaust, engine cooling etc, 304 clamps will very quickly turn into a ball of rust and will be a real safety issue in quite quick time.

[WX]

Are you sure the bases are 304 Gary? I really wouldn't expect anyone to be supplying 304 stanchion bases for a boat on a commercial basis. Take a magnet to one of them and see if it's magnetic, 304 will be, 316 won't be.

Not sure where Don gets the idea that there's nothing wrong with 304 on a boat - that's just not true.

I'd suggest check your hose clamps as well. The stanchions will stay upright and safe for quite a while but will tea stain quite quickly and will continue to rust so for most of the time it will be more of a cosmetic issue than a safety issue for you. But on any of your bilge hoses, exhaust, engine cooling etc, 304 clamps will very quickly turn into a ball of rust and will be a real safety issue in quite quick time.

The cheap ones I bought are 304.
https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_i...AbsolutePage=1
The heavy duty one I bought is 316.
Rick I already have stainless wire that came my way a while back so I'll use it. Hard grommets noted.
Duncan if the 304 stanchions rust well it's only a bolt on each one I will have to undo. If the 304 stanchion bases rust well they were probably going to be replaced one day anyway as they are not that strong.
If the bloke doing the mods to my stern rail turns out to be reliable then maybe I'll get him to make me some stanchions with the bases welded on.

[RFNK]

Stanchions get bent, and they're supposed to wear any damage from running into things too, so that the boat isn't damaged. Stanchion bases should be strong but the stanchions shouldn't be quite as strong. It's not a good idea to weld the stanchions to their bases.

Rick

[WX]

That's a good point Rick and one I hadn't considered.
Here's a PDF on 1000 hour salt fog exposure tests on 304 and 316 stainless.
www.allweatherinc.com/r_and_d/salt_fog.pdf

[WX]

1996 but still relevant I guess.
http://www.assda.asn.au/index.php?op...170&Itemid=152

[Duncan Gibbs]

This is the obita dicta of the whole article:

304 may be used for fully exposed components, frequently washed with fresh water;

Stanchions will be frequently blasted with salt laden spray (not salt fog), especially on a mooring at Fingal. Slightly bur them, paint them with epoxy and save your money.

[WX]

I have an idea for the stanchions so I'll see how it goes. Moved the keel back a couple of feet this arvo and positioned the cradle base under the hull. I need to raise the aft end of it up a little to level it though. I also measured how much higher the boat will need to be raised to clear the keel and it's 550mm. I'm picking up a pile of bricks possibly on Saturday so I'll probably use them unless some big chunks of timber come my way in the mean time.

[PeterSibley]

I've got a few decent lumps out here if you want them Gary .

[WX]

I will take you up on that Peter. Happy to just borrow them. I don't really fancy stacking bricks.

[PeterSibley]

Any day but Friday.

[WX]

Any day but Friday.

I'll give you a call when I'm ready. I may have a Wednesday free next week.

[PeterSibley]

Sounds good !

[WX]

Okay here's three photos of the stanchions. if you have been following this thread then you will aware that I committed the faux pas of buying 304 grade stainless. So bowing to peer pressure but rebelling sufficiently not to buy 316 grade, I have decided to minimise the risk of corrosion. This is my plan and excuse the poor focus, life has been a bit of a blur lately.
Having "free" drilled the holes in the first one and getting it a bit out of line I decided on a bit of a jig.

it's really just a vee with a nail at one end to act as a stop. The idea was drill the first hole through into the wood. Drop a pencil into the hole to act as an alignment pin then drill the second hole. It worked but not perfectly.
The next stage was to plug the ends of the tube and where the drill holes pass through.

Each piece is around 100mm long and epoxied in place. Once I had them all done I laid them with the holes on one side facing up and put a few drops of epoxy into the holes. The hope is it will seep in around the dowel and fill any voids.

The holes through the stanchions are 9.5mm and the next step is to drill a 6mm hole through the dowel. The inside of the hole will be epoxy saturated. I figure the wooden dowel will reduce the chance of chaff on the edges of the stainless tube.
I will assume that all makes sense.

[RFNK]

Another method would be to run thin SS tube through the stanchions as ways for the line. Just weld the tube on the outside at each end and grind/peen it smooth. I'd worry that the dowels you have will trap moisture - nylon block might be better. Anyway, whatver you do will work for a long time and can be replaced eventually if it wears or rusts, so I wouldn't be losing any sleep over it!

Rick

[WX]

I spent a hour sanding back any glue runs and generally keying the surface of the stanchions. The next stage is to paint them with the two pot primer I bought for the keel and then top coat them with the Aquacote I used for the deck and cabin sides. Other than replace the 304 stanchion bases, which I am not going to do ( for now) I think I shall just ignore them. Far too fiddly to key and paint.

[andrewpatrol]

What about an etch primer? Although I'm with you on the CBF front, I'd rather go use the boat being this close

[WX]

What about an etch primer? Although I'm with you on the CBF front, I'd rather go use the boat being this close

For the stanchion bases? Apparently the bases I have used are not a very good design so i think I'll just replace them as they break or rust away.

I'm quite happy to correct the hopefully few problems after a bit of sailing as well. I will do the primer I already have because it won't take long to do. The big thing at the moment is to get the keel on but after having a good look at my setup today I think I need to do a bit of very careful thinking about how it's going to happen.

[WX]

Another method would be to run thin SS tube through the stanchions as ways for the line. Just weld the tube on the outside at each end and grind/peen it smooth. I'd worry that the dowels you have will trap moisture - nylon block might be better. Anyway, whatver you do will work for a long time and can be replaced eventually if it wears or rusts, so I wouldn't be losing any sleep over it!

Rick

That's a good idea Rick but I'll wait till I replace them with the 316.

[Larks]

That's a good idea Rick but I'll wait till I replace them with the 316.

Good idea. Depending on where you plan on doing most of your sailing you'll probably find you can do away with the safety lines and stanchions most of the time anyway, which may allow you to preserve the ones you have a bit longer until you decide you need them. IE put them on while you get used to her and see how much you feel you need them and then perhaps remove them, clean them up and stow them ashore. I'm planning on setting mine up with pulpit and pushpit and some relatively unobtrusive stanchion bases so that I can leave the stanchions and lines off 99% of the time and just add them if/when I do a passage type trip.

I find that most of the time for general sailing I rely on decent toerails and grab rails far more than the safety lines anyway, other than the pulpit when changing sails or sitting up in the bows watching the world go by.

[WX]

I never use safety lines and stanchions as handholds. It's always toerails,grabrails and being clipped onto the boat. I'm putting them on mainly because it makes Kerry feel safe.

[WX]

I re blocked under the bow of the boat and moved the cradle base about a foot and a half forward and got the whole thing more or less level yesterday. I'm going to try for a keel grafting on Tuesday. I'm still not sure how it happen but I will have help so I'm sure two brains should work it out. The other really really important job nearly finished is the installation of the AM/FM radio CD player.
Hope to get a bit of time over the next 3 days get the cradle uprights sorted out.

[RFNK]

I left the stanchions etc. off Pipsqueak. I put threaded holes in the deck for them in case I ever decide to put them back on, but I probably never will. I would like a pulpit for trips up the coast though so I'll have one of those made one day.

Rick

[WX]

I spent some time trying to out stare the keel today and decided the simplest way to get the keel onto the cradle is a ramp and pipe rollers. I have a block and tackle and I have Mr Sibley's very nice chainblock, though I am not sure if that will work very well in the horizontal...I'll try it. Still hoping to tackle it on Tuesday.
Having sorted that I finished the wiring on the sound system just in time for Kerry to sit down at the saloon table. She had wandered over with a bottle of red and two glasses. We listened to some Jimmy Buffet.

[Larks]

I spent some time trying to out stare the keel today and decided the simplest way to get the keel onto the cradle is a ramp and pipe rollers. I have a block and tackle and I have Mr Sibley's very nice chainblock, though I am not sure if that will work very well in the horizontal...I'll try it. Still hoping to tackle it on Tuesday.
Having sorted that I finished the wiring on the sound system just in time for Kerry to sit down at the saloon table. She had wandered over with a bottle of red and two glasses. We listened to some Jimmy Buffet.

Sounds like a perfect Friday evening!!!

[WX]

Sounds like a perfect Friday evening!!!

Yeah it was nice to sit there and imagine being at anchor somewhere.

[RFNK]

Sounds like a perfect Friday evening!!!

Except for Jimmy Buffet ....... but I guess, come Monday, it'll be alright

Rick

[WX]

Except for Jimmy Buffet ....... but I guess, come Monday, it'll be alright

Rick

Much work on the cradle today and apart from the diagonal bracing it's just about done. The keel fit may well be Friday but Tuesday would be nice.It depends on whether my help manifests.

[skuthorp]

Chain block should work OK horizontal, I used one to winch some of the old cars out of my creek. Just keep it out of the mud.
Jimmy Buffet?? I've plumped for Schubert this evening myself. Skiing tomorrow.

[WX]

Chain block should work OK horizontal, I used one to winch some of the old cars out of my creek. Just keep it out of the mud.
Jimmy Buffet?? I've plumped for Schubert this evening myself. Skiing tomorrow.

The mud is dust now. Jimmy was the only CD I took over to the boat to test the CD player. I'll have to put a boat collection together now.

[WX]

My planned help for tomorrow has gone AWOL...methinks he is visiting his lady friend...nudge nudge wink wink.
Started to jack the boat up today and discovered the present balance point has moved aft with the engine...who would have thought 360+ lbs would have that effect.
I realised this fact when I turn around and noticed the bow of the boat was 6-8 inches above the blocking!
So more thought is going into the supports on the cradle and the required bracing.
The stern is a whole 50mm higher now

[Larks]

Are you jacking it up one end at a time anyway Gary?

[PeterSibley]

Wooops ! I'm glad you noticed that one ... it could have spoiled your whole day to have it slide back and off .

[WX]

Are you jacking it up one end at a time anyway Gary?

Yep one end at a time and no rush.

[WX]

I completed the cradle support bracing today and it made a big difference to stability of the boat while jacking it up...17 inches to go. I ransacked the shed for bolts as I've run out of 12mm nuts and washers for the threaded rod. Each support has one bolt through it and one G-cramp, this makes adjusting the uprights easy after each lift.
A couple of shots of the cradle.


A slight problem with a diagonal brace on the shed but a saw cut has fixed that

[PeterSibley]

17" more ? I think you're going to be looking for more blocking Gary .

[WX]

I have a few bits yet to use and I have some 200mm x 75mm I can cut up. Do you have more I can borrow if needed Peter?

[Matti]

Hi Gary.
You shoud be careful when you pile blocs only the same direction, it might be very unstable fore-after.
Better to have crossways; http://www.freewebs.com/maryii/apps/...toid=109361788, just beginning to jack up stern to have false keel behind ballast.

Looking good, I been monitoring.

There is no excuse to have stanchions and rails. In earlier life, I have pic up "swimmers" who have been in water half year, just disappeared when moving to new anchoring nigh time.

Matti

[WX]

Hi Matti, The aft stack is arranged pigpen style and I am being very careful but I hear what you are saying
Regarding the stanchion and safety rails do you mean there is no excuse for not having them?

[WX]

Found someone to modify my stern rail for under $200...just have to wait 3 weeks to get it done.

[Matti]

Regarding the stanchion and safety rails do you mean there is no excuse for not having them?

Yes, sorry my English.(tosin voisimme käyttää suomea, mutta silloin tulisi vielä enemmän epäselvyyksiä???)

Matti