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Thread: Redwing update

  1. #3571
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  2. #3572
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    How is it that a parcel can take less time to come from NZ than it takes money to clear into PayPal?
    The new cloth for my sail alterations.
    D6246A86-0813-4303-BB52-93FD9E590CFE.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  3. #3573
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Seems they took the same amount of time, one week.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  4. #3574
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    How is it that a parcel can take less time to come from NZ than it takes money to clear into PayPal?
    The new cloth for my sail alterations.
    D6246A86-0813-4303-BB52-93FD9E590CFE.jpg
    What are you changing ?

  5. #3575
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    How does it compare to Deks Ole Phil?
    I think it lasts much longer in the Aussie sun.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  6. #3576
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The boom all sanded back and clear finished. I used a finish called KBS Diamond Finish Clear.
    E2D0BE79-BF37-482C-BCB5-1826F061F777.jpg

    50D70416-6210-4C8B-825A-B9170CFE243B.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  7. #3577
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    This is the collar I plan to use to lift the mast a few inches so I can rotate it a couple of inches.
    644C9F63-48C6-494E-8AF4-0518D7AEDC08.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  8. #3578
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    20160710_085739.jpg
    When I made my sail I went with webbing loops for the battens instead of pockets, mainly because at the time I didn't feel confident fitting them. The sail works quite well but I've never been happy with the slack between the sail and the battens because of the loops. So what to do about it? Well I've decided to fit full length pockets. Today I tried a test run and in amongst my scraps I found two test run samples with loops fitted from when I was making the sail.
    So this is the sample with loops.
    A349D9A2-72D0-46CF-A187-A08A9DFF9A3B.jpg

    This is the sample with the pocket fitted.
    2435634C-0939-4C81-99D6-4F45BAA6A13E.jpg

    And this is both with a batten fitted, you can see the difference.

    6D68B92F-96C4-4C0A-828D-EF4233AAE880.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  9. #3579
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    That really seems to tighten things up nicely.
    This sig line is proudly provided by The Wooden Boat Magazine Forum. If it ain't The Wooden Boat Mag, it just a rag.

  10. #3580
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Spent the day sewing strips together for the pockets, it’s not going to be a fun job. I’ll post some photos later.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  11. #3581
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The pockets will help to stabilise the sail but you'll still get folds and creases in the sail unless you can stretch the sail along the batten with a tensioning strap or buckle. Sailboard sails have very good systems for this that could be applicable to your setup, although you'd want a lot less tension with your sail material. It would be quite easy to set up. A bit of webbing and some plastic buckles. Are you sewing in any reinforcing webbing into the inward end of your pockets? What do they land on now?

    Rick

  12. #3582
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Rick I usually tension up the sail to the batten ends using 6mm braid. The original thinking that I went was not tension too tight. However that has changed and my JR “guru” now tensions his sail. There is a webbing loop on the luff and the leach bolt webbing so other than a folded hem fore and aft on the pocket there should not be added pressure in that area.
    Is that what you meant?
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  13. #3583
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Well, to get reasonable tension along the batten (i.e., across the sail), you need the inward end of the batten to be pressing into the luff or edge of the sail. If that's not reinforced with webbing or something, it'll tear the end out of the pocket or the edge off the sail. Usually webbing or similar is used to make a little pocket there for that reason.

    On the outer end of the batten pocket, there's a webbing strap or whatever that can be buckled up or something to force the batten against the luff of the sail and hence tension the sail. Sailboard sails are tensioned up so tightly that the batten curves and puts camber into the sail but that's a lot more tension than you'd want.

    It doesn't matter whether it's a junk rig or anything else, you want a smooth sail. Any creases are going to reduce the efficiency of the sail as they disrupt the flow of air across the sail so it's certainly worth making sure you can achieve adequate tension with your battens and adjusters.

    Rick

  14. #3584
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Well, to get reasonable tension along the batten (i.e., across the sail), you need the inward end of the batten to be pressing into the luff or edge of the sail. If that's not reinforced with webbing or something, it'll tear the end out of the pocket or the edge off the sail. Usually webbing or similar is used to make a little pocket there for that reason.

    On the outer end of the batten pocket, there's a webbing strap or whatever that can be buckled up or something to force the batten against the luff of the sail and hence tension the sail. Sailboard sails are tensioned up so tightly that the batten curves and puts camber into the sail but that's a lot more tension than you'd want.

    It doesn't matter whether it's a junk rig or anything else, you want a smooth sail. Any creases are going to reduce the efficiency of the sail as they disrupt the flow of air across the sail so it's certainly worth making sure you can achieve adequate tension with your battens and adjusters.

    Rick
    The luff and leach have a layer of 50mm webbing on each side, stitched to that is a webbing loop for tensioning the sail. So I think I’ve got that covered.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  15. #3585
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Okay my sewing room.
    8C41F61F-0D7B-4171-9F0D-4972DC07264B.jpg

    Each batten pocket is made up of three strips sewn end to end. So may two strips in top of each other and mark a 50mm line in from one end...that will give a seam 25mm wide.
    E4955A80-3F2F-45F5-96E0-0A86855B4459.jpg
    Fold and run a line of stitching down the middle. Fold the top layer back over the seam and run a line of thread down the edge of the fold.
    27C1B316-6C3B-44A5-8AC6-5A4541490067.jpg
    .
    33FE9759-5F88-40FB-A679-C68BA6F21D5F.jpg

    7766155D-032F-45AB-9A7D-55C166BD3415.jpg
    Now do that another 35 times.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  16. #3586
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The next step is to hem the edges of the pockets. Once again I drew a line 50mm in from the edge to allow a 25mm hem. I then stapled the hem every 150mm or so just hold it in place.

    5940EAED-1337-40BC-9F73-3AA40B8C9736.jpg
    To hold the hem I ran one line of stitching down the center.
    1A0810E7-5877-4821-9A48-E28B9CBBBC03.jpg
    By this stage I'd had enough, so one hemmed and 5 to go.
    6AEB0D75-09E9-4B83-9CC8-E3A72A5CFB60.jpg
    These pockets will go from the leach to aft of the mast position, leaving a gap to allow for the batten parrels and then a short pocket to the luff. I'm not sure of the exact measurement for the gap yet...soon.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  17. #3587
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Rick if you look closely at the aft end of the bottom batten you will see a loop around the batten and just above it another webbing loop for attaching the leach of the sail to the batten.
    20160710_085739.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  18. #3588
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  19. #3589
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    First batten pocket goes on, not an easy or fast job. Having said that this was one of the easy ones.
    158C3BB8-382B-41FD-B395-6074D4B95AAC.jpg

    DF43C248-2AC4-4BE5-A529-895D62421FF1.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  20. #3590
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Lovely looking sewing machine Gary.

    That material looks quite shiny.

  21. #3591
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by beam reach View Post
    Lovely looking sewing machine Gary.

    That material looks quite shiny.
    The machine was my mums and the material has a coating on one side.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  22. #3592
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I`m a little unsure how that percentage of camber works Gary ;

    For an easy example , if your bottom panels were say 1.0 meter wide ( 1000 mm )

    8 % camber = ( 1% ) x 8 = ( 10mm x 8 ) = 80 mm

    Does that mean you cut your panels barrel shaped 40mm down (from top) , and 40mm up (from the bottom ?)

    Or is camber a percentage of the length of the panel ?


    Still watching with interest !

  23. #3593
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by beam reach View Post
    I`m a little unsure how that percentage of camber works Gary ;

    For an easy example , if your bottom panels were say 1.0 meter wide ( 1000 mm )

    8 % camber = ( 1% ) x 8 = ( 10mm x 8 ) = 80 mm

    Does that mean you cut your panels barrel shaped 40mm down (from top) , and 40mm up (from the bottom ?)


    Or is camber a percentage of the length of the panel ?


    Still watching with interest !
    Mark out the panels with straight sides then mark out the camber, so yes 40mm up and down. I’ll give you a link to a howto on making these sails.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  24. #3594
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    This is a link to Arne Kverneland’s articles, there is a wealth of information here.
    https://www.junkrigassociation.org/arne
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  25. #3595
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Junk Sail Motherload Gary .

    Thanks !

  26. #3596
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I used Arne’s technique to make my sail and it works just fine. There is a lot of reading there eh.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  27. #3597
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Finally got time to drag out the sewing machine yesterday to get another pocket done. Almost completed the first run of stitching and broke the needle. It was my last 120 gauge needle to that was that till I can buy some more.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  28. #3598
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Husquarna is 90km down the road, make good machines! Did you have any chafe points on your sail? I have been reading a lot of stuff over on the JRA, and have Derek Van Loans book, as i might consider a junk main over the balanced lug, though i might be able to set up both to reef without going on the foredeck. Annies new galley is looking incredible!

  29. #3599
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Husquarna is 90km down the road, make good machines! Did you have any chafe points on your sail? I have been reading a lot of stuff over on the JRA, and have Derek Van Loans book, as i might consider a junk main over the balanced lug, though i might be able to set up both to reef without going on the foredeck. Annies new galley is looking incredible!
    No chafe points, though I may have been lucky there. Did have a wear point on the boom where it had rubbed against the mast. I personally would go with the JR but I am biased. Have you seen a copy of Practical Junk Rig?
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  30. #3600
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    No chafe points, though I may have been lucky there. Did have a wear point on the boom where it had rubbed against the mast. I personally would go with the JR but I am biased. Have you seen a copy of Practical Junk Rig?

    Is this any good to prevent that ?

    laita 15 chafe point on boom.jpg

    It looks like a simple wrap of small dia rope.

    I don`t see why it should not work with a junk rig , or am I missing some detail Gary ?

  31. #3601
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by beam reach View Post
    Is this any good to prevent that ?

    laita 15 chafe point on boom.jpg

    It looks like a simple wrap of small dia rope.

    I don`t see why it should not work with a junk rig , or am I missing some detail Gary ?
    Yes I had a similar setup but just not far enough aft.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  32. #3602
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    No chafe points, though I may have been lucky there. Did have a wear point on the boom where it had rubbed against the mast. I personally would go with the JR but I am biased. Have you seen a copy of Practical Junk Rig?
    I have borrowed a copy once and took notes. The rig has gone through much development in that time in comparison to how long the rig has been in use, so i would benefit from a more lightweight version, due in part to having a very lightly ballasted design. Just not sure of carbon battens and yard.
    I think i mentioned before about Roger Taylors new rig with good camber panels in the bottom and flatter in the top would be a good way to go. I found it quite amazing that "speedwell of hong kong" was using a flat panel sail for 6 years, and so for a motor-sailor, a flat panel rig might be a good option. I am a very long way from that being an issue and i will be fitting a free standing mast in a tabernacle anyway, so either sail will fit.
    Be interesting if you can weigh up your finished sail ready to hoist, i dont suppose your alloy battens really add much to the overall weight.

  33. #3603
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I have borrowed a copy once and took notes. The rig has gone through much development in that time in comparison to how long the rig has been in use, so i would benefit from a more lightweight version, due in part to having a very lightly ballasted design. Just not sure of carbon battens and yard.
    I think i mentioned before about Roger Taylors new rig with good camber panels in the bottom and flatter in the top would be a good way to go. I found it quite amazing that "speedwell of hong kong" was using a flat panel sail for 6 years, and so for a motor-sailor, a flat panel rig might be a good option. I am a very long way from that being an issue and i will be fitting a free standing mast in a tabernacle anyway, so either sail will fit.
    Be interesting if you can weigh up your finished sail ready to hoist, i don't suppose your alloy battens really add much to the overall weight.
    I'll try and remember to do that. The sail design in PJR is over designed and as you say flat. Over designed in that it was designed to take the same stresses as a BM rig, reinforced corners etc. All of which are not needed because the stress on the sail is very different. On a BM rig the stress is such that if a hole or rip appeared the whole sail would blow out. With a JR rig you may lose a panel but not the whole sail, each panel is a sail in itself. So blow one out you just reef that panel. Arne Kverneland really kicked off the cambered panel route as far as I am concerned and I have used his technique and it gave me one very powerful sail. David Tyler took the construction method one step further and changed to more of a fan shape. Another bloke wholes name escapes me at present has done a lot of work on the split rig, this puts a separate set of panels fore-ward of the mast...more of a Van Loan shape.
    Back to the weight of the rig, I can pick up the sail bundle quite easily and when the boat is rigged I can raise the sail without using a winch. I do have a 4:1 purchase on the halyard though.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  34. #3604
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I have borrowed a copy once and took notes. The rig has gone through much development in that time in comparison to how long the rig has been in use, so i would benefit from a more lightweight version, due in part to having a very lightly ballasted design. Just not sure of carbon battens and yard.
    I think i mentioned before about Roger Taylors new rig with good camber panels in the bottom and flatter in the top would be a good way to go. I found it quite amazing that "speedwell of hong kong" was using a flat panel sail for 6 years, and so for a motor-sailor, a flat panel rig might be a good option. I am a very long way from that being an issue and i will be fitting a free standing mast in a tabernacle anyway, so either sail will fit.
    Be interesting if you can weigh up your finished sail ready to hoist, i dont suppose your alloy battens really add much to the overall weight.
    Your top panels are your storm sail, you don't really want camber in them. Having said that I have a feeling I may have cut camber into mine.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  35. #3605
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Had another go at rotating the mast today and it worked!
    I screwed a couple of timber wedges fat end down to the mast and put a couple of bottle jacks under them. Jacked the mast up till I had sufficient clearance at the number 2 frame partial bulkhead, then grabbed hold of the wedges and twisted. Easy peasy, all I had to do then was lever the heel of the mast into the socket and it was done.
    IMG_0037.jpg

    For some reason the hold down bolt won't go through though it should be lined up. I was drowning in my own sweat by this stage so I will worry about it next time. The eyebolts through the mast collar at the partners should hold it in place anyway.
    IMG_0038.jpg
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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