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Thread: Redwing update

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    yes, have been through all of Arne's stuff.
    Strangely, I've only ever read about problems with the Hasler-Macleod design. No windward performance when more than a few panels are reefed, it all weather vanes behind the mast. There's a chap I'm in contact with cruising the Atlantic now who also has that complaint. I'm sticking with Reddish and closely following the junks shown in Hong Kong photos on that website you posted.

    My Badger hull is mostly planked. Its looking pretty spiffy at the moment.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Good luck with it, who knows we might get to meet up sometime and compare rigs. When you going to post some new photos?
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I cut a 100mm hole through the foredeck the other day and dropped a length of PVC pipe down into the step...sort of a pretend mast It will help me get the mast partner flange located correctly.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    ok, I wasn't having a go about your choice of design, was wanting to know about the pros & cons. I'll be mindful of how the battens stack as they are reefed.
    Re my hull: I'll have to get pics of it, its under cover right now.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I didn't think you were. I had planned to use the Fenix rig but was talked out of it because of the batten problem. It seems there are 3 variants on the Hasler/MacLeod rig. 1 is the standard design as in the book, panels cut flat. 2 is the with the panels cut flat but fitted with hinged battens and 3, the one I'm going with is straight battens but the panels have 8% camber cut into them.
    There is a design in develpment where a slot is cut vertically in each panel at the mast. All panels have camber cut into them. This will explain it better than I can.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkri.../Split%20Junk/
    Last edited by WX; 03-30-2009 at 05:55 PM. Reason: correction
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Split rig, saw that one. Very tempting to just go for it. But my significant other doesnt like it, not traditional looking enough...

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    not traditional looking enough...
    I read one of Colvin's books back in the 80s, unfortunately I was still hooked on the Western sloop rig. I decided against the junk rig at the time for much the same reason. I SHOULD have read Annie Hill's book Voyaging on a small Income instead...but I didn't know about it.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I read one of Colvin's books back in the 80s, unfortunately I was still hooked on the Western sloop rig. I decided against the junk rig at the time for much the same reason. I SHOULD have read Annie Hill's book Voyaging on a small Income instead...but I didn't know about it.
    Well you couldn't, it wasn't published till 2001.
    FWIW I also have Van Loan's "Design and Build your own Junk Rig", (which predates PJR), which I might use. My mind changes every month...

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    it wasn't published till 2001.
    Actually the copy I have here was published in 1993 but what you say still stands..it wasn't around in the 80s. Unfortunately in the 90s my sailing dream took a big nosedive due to a relationship I was in, but that's another story. Which ever style you adopt I would strongly recommend that you either build in camber in your panels or use hinged battens. Both have been properly tested at sea and will give you better performance than flat cut panels.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    the camber is easy to put in when you make the sail just take a dart at each batten.
    the hinged battens are a bit more difficult. me I plan on putting in some camber and the gurney flap. the camber just for the small performance boost and the gurney flap cause it reduces the chance of hang ups and adds performance. both are easy to do on home built sails so there seems to be no down side.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Damn, my edition of "Voyaging.." makes no reference to earlier print..

    The 24' sloop we sail now always has a foot or more camber in the sails regardless of how tight its sheeted, reefed or not, pretty silly to make a junk sail without it. Hinged battens probably makes the best shape, just dont think i can trust hinges of my own making..
    Anyway, final decision on sail plan is a long way off, yet to finish the hull (laminated another 2 sheets today).
    Last edited by GaryK; 04-01-2009 at 10:12 AM.

  12. #62
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Gary, are you using bamboo for battens? I'm wondering if 2 years enough time to grow them.

  13. #63
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Two year won't be enough. A bamboo stem will reach full height in a season but won't be ready to use for two to three years. I will probably use bamboo for my battens as I have it growing here, I should get them cut so they have enough time to season. I will use a timber yard and boom.
    2MT, I will be cutting the camber in as I make my sail. Instead of cutting the top and bottom of the panel straight you cut them in a curve to set measurements. This is all based on the work done by Arne Kverneland, Norway. My rig was actually designed by another Norwegian.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Hmm Kverneland I will look him up.

    I put the camber in my own and it worked out well with the darts.
    always more for me to learn. I would not have thought of curving the top and bottom cut. Have you decided on a fabric for the sail itself?

    Erica and I where talking today about some different options. I think i see a trip to the discount fabric store in our future.

  15. #65
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Odyssey III, I can get it in burgundy (pretend tanbark) for around $19.50 a linear metre here in Oz.
    Here's a link to the Junkrig forum, you will find Arne's files...underFiles.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    We where thinking a jewel tone color fast satin brocade. its a junk rig so we thought it would be fun to play a little. Our last one was made from a canvas paint tarp. I was also thinking of treating another paint tarp sail with Linseed oil and see how that works.

    Its fun to tinker a bit

  17. #67
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Its fun to tinker a bit
    Pete Hill rigged a Freedom junkrig Ketch with polytarp sails. Reddish made his sail design from a polytarp for his boat and sailed it around Britain. No worries. I will be making mine sometime this year and I'm looking forward to it.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  18. #68
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    ok, I may have to try source some grown bamboo.
    Last year in Bali, we came across some large bamboos hanging on a wall on the beach, they were outrigger sticks for their trad outrigged canoe boats.
    They were approx 10 metres long and 20 to 25cm diameter, about the size of the mast I need. I calculated a staved or birdsmouth mast made from oregon would weigh 70 to 80kg. But I could pick this huge bamboo with one hand, no more than 7 or 8kg. Astounding!
    Too bad its too big to fit on a plane..

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Gary, Have emailed you.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  20. #70
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Working on the cockpit engine access hatch. This hatch actually gives me access to the stuffing box etc...or will when it's all installed.
    This photo was taken a while back.

    Framing the coaming.


    This shows the...not quite sure what you call them, other than coamings or weather stops. Anyway the bits that actually stop the water from getting in


    I have since shaped sanded it all back and made the hatch cover but the camera went flat on me...bloody modern technology. Sometimes I think I should dust off the old SLR, though these days I'd probably have trouble finding somewhere to get the film processed.
    I haven't settled on a method of dogging the hatch down yet..it will be low tech anyway.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Trying to make sense of your latest pics. Are you having an engine access hatch protruding from the cockpit sole? Wouldn't you be tripping over it?

  22. #72
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    A different Red Wing

    "Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." ~ Mark Twain


  23. #73
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Gary, yes it is raised and yes it does make the cockpit sole a bit complex. I really don't want to rip out the whole cockpit and do it again...though it may well happen sometime down the track. I realised that for anyone shorter than me they were going to have trouble bracing themselves while steering and the quickest way around it was to raise the height of the hatch.
    I've been working on this boat for too many years now to go back and do stuff again, I just want to get it in the water. Once I've sailed a bit and seen what works and what doesn't I probably won't mind doing a few changes and mostly likely will as I'm not happy with the size of the cockpit. It's too deep. The small rectangular opening will hold the fuel tank.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  24. #74
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Fair 'nough. Just remember to have it dogged down tight, in case a wave floods your cockpit, you dont want it flowing into your bilge.

  25. #75
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I'm still thinking about how I'm going to do that.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  26. #76
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    A set of hinges on one face of the hatch that will allow the cover to come off when rotated beyong 90 degrees, with a soft refrigerator door seal all around, and cam lock fasteners on the opposite side....will allow a screwdriver to twist a few turns to release, then lift for inspection, or continue to lift and then remove the lid as required.
    Wakan Tanka Kici Un
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  27. #77
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    ..or for a quick and easy solution, just fasten it with 4 big stainless wood screws, not as if you will be using the hatch often.

  28. #78
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Gary I have been thinking more along your lines but using captive bolts. I had thought about hinges and clasps but then i would have to have padlocks for when I'm not there as well.
    Chuck what do you mean by camlock fasteners?
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  29. #79
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    It's okay I know what you mean.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  30. #80
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Well here's a few photos of what I have been up to. Not a lot of apparent change but that's what you get with 4 layers of paint

    Okay the galley, the pump and sink haven't been fastened in yet as the varnish work isn't finished with.


    This is the WC door catch I've made. Bit out of focus.


    Another view with the door open

    Last edited by WX; 06-07-2009 at 01:57 AM. Reason: forgot to put an image in
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  31. #81
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Nice to get alot of the painting behind you WX...good boost for the moral.Speaking of boost, are you anticipating getting suddenly and rapidly boosted off the thunderbox anytime soon,thus the beefy wc door catch?

    Looking all around good!!


    Cheers!


    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
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  32. #82
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Well, I sorta didn't want it to break
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  33. #83
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I understand Gary.

    You are very shy and need absolute privacy.

  34. #84
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    An enclosed head was always a given for me. Now I know I could have put a very nice nav station in the space occupied by my glorified bucket and I know the French have been known to have molded a dunny seat into the stern of some of their plastic yachts but for me....I'll have a dunny with a door thank you very much
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  35. #85
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Lookin' good mate !
    Try to work out what the marketing guy wants you to do then do precisely the opposite.

  36. #86
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    'Tis a new form of monk's cell!!

    "Yea verily though we sit in shadow of the valley of the farts...."

    I hope that's not FLOODED GUM!!

    Good stuff mate!!
    “For masterpieces are not single and solitary births; they are the outcome of many years of thinking in common, of thinking by the body of the people, so that the experience of the mass is behind the single voice.” Virginia Woolf, A Room of One's Own

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  37. #87
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Red Cedar Duncan, only the best for my dunny.
    Wots wrong with Flooded Gum? I framed the hull with it.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  38. #88
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I love the door latch

  39. #89
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Thank you chill, I copied the idea from a toilet door catch at our local pub. Saves buying one eh.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  40. #90
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    Default Re: Redwing update



    WX
    I copied the idea from a toilet door catch at our local pub. Saves buying one eh.
    More likely you copied that from Boggo Road jail

  41. #91
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    JimJ, you ever hear the wheelie bin joke?
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  42. #92
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The mast begins.



    Length 9 metres, diameter at partners 212mm, made up from 8 staves @ 83mm x 40mm...birdsmouth construction. Yesterday was my second day working on it and I have to say I achieved very little. I forgot my planer and had to use Peter's, unfortunately his blades were blunt and needed changing but I kept getting one cutter out of alignment...eventually I threw up my hands in dispair and then Peter pointed out there was a little metal jig for setting up the cutters...UGH.
    Anyway, next week will be different
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  43. #93
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Thats a lovely head door, WX.

  44. #94
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Looking forward to seeing the progress photos on the mast Gary to see how it's done. Here's a photo of Bintang Tengah's boom for inspiration, its been built out of durian using birdsmouth joins
    Larks

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  45. #95
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Thats a lovely head door, WX.
    Thanks Gary
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  46. #96
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    No photos just yet but some time ago Peter delivered my mast staves and I stacked them on the shed floor...which made walking around cumbersome.
    yesterday I scrounged 4 44 gallon drums and set them up in the shed as my mast bench, I already had one drum and I need one more which I will get today. I've squared off one end of each stave and written the length measurement on them so I can work out which sections of stave will go with which. The next job is to make my scarfing jig and I figure I'll design that around using my power saw. One other job I have to do before I can get into assembling the staves is to build a 2 metre extension onto one end of the shed...my mast is 9 metres and my shed is 7 metres and I want the whole thing under cover. Luckily the required footings and steel posts are in place and all I have to do is add the structure.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  47. #97
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    While we are waiting for the new photos here's some old photos I just scanned.


    The timber arrives.



    The Stempiece is made of 8 pieces in 4 layers.

    After a few weeks of frenzied activity the first frame stands proud.



    Frames 1 to 6 now in place. A much younger and trimmer me.

    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  48. #98
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Keelson, Stempiece, Chines and Gunwales fitted.


    Stringers and the first Transom layer goes on.



    The Planking is progressing. The easy ones first. The bottom bow sheets took some real effort to fit the compound curve.

    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  49. #99
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    The hull is finished and sealed with a TPA based epoxy


    The big day arrives! Woohoo!



    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

  50. #100
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    And over she goes.



    And that is where we have to leave her till I scan some more. The date of the turnover by the way was 21 December !986...Never in my wildest dreams did I think it would be many years before I would see the launch day....still waiting.
    At the age of 62 I have come to realise that you can't breed out stupidity.

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