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Thread: Redwing update

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I've spent the last couple of days shaping, sanding and fitting fiddles and trim. The timber is Red Cedar (Toona australis) kindly donated by Peter. Not the cleanest of grain and I had to cramp it all up once dimensioned to stop it twisting all over the place. Luckily it's a soft timber and easy to sand. It doesn't look much yet but in a day or two it will have a coat or 2 of varnish and it's true colour will show through.



    Settee berth and backrest shelf fiddles in place.



    Galley fiddles and trim in place. It still looks a bit rough but a bit of sanding will fix all that.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Nice roomy interior for a 25' boat.
    Do you have the book: "Boat Joinery and Cabinet Making Simplified" by Fred P. Bingham or do your plans include detailed interior drawings?
    At first I thought you had a window on your head door, for perving on guests, but I think its a mirror.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Haha, it's a mirror. Actually it's one side out of Kerry's vanity mirror
    I have Hartley's two books on boat building, plus I have a few of Lucas's books on fitting out and one by Toghill. The rest I have worked out by myself or though looking at how others have done it. As I have stated before I am hopeless at drawing up detailed drawings on how to utilise a space. My process is to start and see what happens as I go alone. So far I seem to have created something workable....when I hit the water I will know for sure
    My technique if you could call it that is to use plywood with epoxy and timber stiffening. At best I will use a lap joint in doing fitout. Biulding the hull and deck I stuckstrictly to the plan...except that I extended the aft doghouse 1ft 9inches further aft and I included a forehatch.
    I have since shaped and sanded the Red Cedar fiddles and trim and I'm very pleased with the result. I'll post an update soon.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I can't see any of the photos I had here.

    Anyway here's some new ones showing Red Cedar fiddles and trim.





    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  5. #40
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    Question Re: Redwing update

    Gary, are you building the "Red Wing" by Karl Stambaugh?
    I've been looking at possibly building one in the future.
    Do you have any photos of the hull construction?

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Hi Kevin, My Redwing is a Hartley 24 Spindrift. Redwing is the name I have given to her.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Lookin' good Gary !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I spent a lot of time thinking about how to do this. I needed a maststep that would attach to a partial bulkhead on the No 2 frame and also slot down over the stem piece. I didn't want it going anywhere once it was in and this is what I came up with.

    This is the basic design minus mast anchor bolt.


    this is with the anchor bolt and forward mounting fitted. The mast slot is slightly over 4" diameter.
    I will post a photo of the mast step in situ.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Redwing update



    The mast step firmly glued and bolted in place.
    I've bought some of the timber for the birdsmouth mast, so now it's starting to get interesting.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Looks nice and stout (as George Buehler would say), Gary.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Well....I don't want it to go anywhere it shouldn't
    It's been an interesting little project.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Hi gary ...so that's the 1/2' bolt !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    That's it. It shouldn't lift or twist with that through it. The aft and forward bolt holes have stainless steel sleeves in them to reduce any wear. The stainless tube came from an old towel rack I found in the old shed.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Gary, what junk sail design have you settled on? Reddish? Hasler preferred?

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Gary I will be using the Hasler-MacLeod design with 8% camber in each panel.4 parallel panels and 3 top panels. The lower top panel will be sheeted.
    There is a problem with the Reddish with the battens getting behind the mast when reefing. I had originally decided to go with the Fenix rig as I like the shape but I was talked out of it. I may have mentioned it before but if you go to the files section of the JR forum and look at Arne's files you will find a goldmine of info on building cambered sails. Camber will improve your windward performance.
    How's your Badger going?
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    yes, have been through all of Arne's stuff.
    Strangely, I've only ever read about problems with the Hasler-Macleod design. No windward performance when more than a few panels are reefed, it all weather vanes behind the mast. There's a chap I'm in contact with cruising the Atlantic now who also has that complaint. I'm sticking with Reddish and closely following the junks shown in Hong Kong photos on that website you posted.

    My Badger hull is mostly planked. Its looking pretty spiffy at the moment.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Good luck with it, who knows we might get to meet up sometime and compare rigs. When you going to post some new photos?
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I cut a 100mm hole through the foredeck the other day and dropped a length of PVC pipe down into the step...sort of a pretend mast It will help me get the mast partner flange located correctly.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    ok, I wasn't having a go about your choice of design, was wanting to know about the pros & cons. I'll be mindful of how the battens stack as they are reefed.
    Re my hull: I'll have to get pics of it, its under cover right now.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    I didn't think you were. I had planned to use the Fenix rig but was talked out of it because of the batten problem. It seems there are 3 variants on the Hasler/MacLeod rig. 1 is the standard design as in the book, panels cut flat. 2 is the with the panels cut flat but fitted with hinged battens and 3, the one I'm going with is straight battens but the panels have 8% camber cut into them.
    There is a design in develpment where a slot is cut vertically in each panel at the mast. All panels have camber cut into them. This will explain it better than I can.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkri.../Split%20Junk/
    Last edited by WX; 03-30-2009 at 05:55 PM. Reason: correction
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Split rig, saw that one. Very tempting to just go for it. But my significant other doesnt like it, not traditional looking enough...

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    not traditional looking enough...
    I read one of Colvin's books back in the 80s, unfortunately I was still hooked on the Western sloop rig. I decided against the junk rig at the time for much the same reason. I SHOULD have read Annie Hill's book Voyaging on a small Income instead...but I didn't know about it.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I read one of Colvin's books back in the 80s, unfortunately I was still hooked on the Western sloop rig. I decided against the junk rig at the time for much the same reason. I SHOULD have read Annie Hill's book Voyaging on a small Income instead...but I didn't know about it.
    Well you couldn't, it wasn't published till 2001.
    FWIW I also have Van Loan's "Design and Build your own Junk Rig", (which predates PJR), which I might use. My mind changes every month...

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    it wasn't published till 2001.
    Actually the copy I have here was published in 1993 but what you say still stands..it wasn't around in the 80s. Unfortunately in the 90s my sailing dream took a big nosedive due to a relationship I was in, but that's another story. Which ever style you adopt I would strongly recommend that you either build in camber in your panels or use hinged battens. Both have been properly tested at sea and will give you better performance than flat cut panels.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    the camber is easy to put in when you make the sail just take a dart at each batten.
    the hinged battens are a bit more difficult. me I plan on putting in some camber and the gurney flap. the camber just for the small performance boost and the gurney flap cause it reduces the chance of hang ups and adds performance. both are easy to do on home built sails so there seems to be no down side.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Damn, my edition of "Voyaging.." makes no reference to earlier print..

    The 24' sloop we sail now always has a foot or more camber in the sails regardless of how tight its sheeted, reefed or not, pretty silly to make a junk sail without it. Hinged battens probably makes the best shape, just dont think i can trust hinges of my own making..
    Anyway, final decision on sail plan is a long way off, yet to finish the hull (laminated another 2 sheets today).
    Last edited by GaryK; 04-01-2009 at 10:12 AM.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Gary, are you using bamboo for battens? I'm wondering if 2 years enough time to grow them.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Two year won't be enough. A bamboo stem will reach full height in a season but won't be ready to use for two to three years. I will probably use bamboo for my battens as I have it growing here, I should get them cut so they have enough time to season. I will use a timber yard and boom.
    2MT, I will be cutting the camber in as I make my sail. Instead of cutting the top and bottom of the panel straight you cut them in a curve to set measurements. This is all based on the work done by Arne Kverneland, Norway. My rig was actually designed by another Norwegian.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Hmm Kverneland I will look him up.

    I put the camber in my own and it worked out well with the darts.
    always more for me to learn. I would not have thought of curving the top and bottom cut. Have you decided on a fabric for the sail itself?

    Erica and I where talking today about some different options. I think i see a trip to the discount fabric store in our future.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Odyssey III, I can get it in burgundy (pretend tanbark) for around $19.50 a linear metre here in Oz.
    Here's a link to the Junkrig forum, you will find Arne's files...underFiles.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    We where thinking a jewel tone color fast satin brocade. its a junk rig so we thought it would be fun to play a little. Our last one was made from a canvas paint tarp. I was also thinking of treating another paint tarp sail with Linseed oil and see how that works.

    Its fun to tinker a bit

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Its fun to tinker a bit
    Pete Hill rigged a Freedom junkrig Ketch with polytarp sails. Reddish made his sail design from a polytarp for his boat and sailed it around Britain. No worries. I will be making mine sometime this year and I'm looking forward to it.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    ok, I may have to try source some grown bamboo.
    Last year in Bali, we came across some large bamboos hanging on a wall on the beach, they were outrigger sticks for their trad outrigged canoe boats.
    They were approx 10 metres long and 20 to 25cm diameter, about the size of the mast I need. I calculated a staved or birdsmouth mast made from oregon would weigh 70 to 80kg. But I could pick this huge bamboo with one hand, no more than 7 or 8kg. Astounding!
    Too bad its too big to fit on a plane..

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Gary, Have emailed you.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Redwing update

    Working on the cockpit engine access hatch. This hatch actually gives me access to the stuffing box etc...or will when it's all installed.
    This photo was taken a while back.

    Framing the coaming.


    This shows the...not quite sure what you call them, other than coamings or weather stops. Anyway the bits that actually stop the water from getting in


    I have since shaped sanded it all back and made the hatch cover but the camera went flat on me...bloody modern technology. Sometimes I think I should dust off the old SLR, though these days I'd probably have trouble finding somewhere to get the film processed.
    I haven't settled on a method of dogging the hatch down yet..it will be low tech anyway.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

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