LOOKING FOR GOOD READ FOR NOVICE BOATBUILDER

[Mr. Maar]

Hi guys, I am sure you didn't forgett me (the one that doesn't know anything about anything). Well, I am the novice boatbuilder who wants to build a cruising boat of about 7 m in lenght, sloop or cutter, round hull wine glass shape, completely wooden, strip or carvell planked, fixed keel fore and aft, not too heavy (ballast max. 1400 lbs). Does anyone know where I can get that plan for free. Another question would be what is the best book for novice who doesn't know how to do it at all. I have just received Chapelle's ''Boatbuilding'' but I am not satysfied with it becouse it doesn't realy say how to do it as much as Bhueller's ''Backyard Boatbuilding''doesn't. They can be usefull, but for somebody else, not for me. Now I am waiting for the delivery of McIntosh's ''How to build a Wooden boat''.

[ 10-30-2005, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Maar ]

[ssor]

Find an old man that used to build boats and ask him to mentor you and build a dinghy first.

[JimD]

You'll probably find McIntosh a little more instructional. You should also be willing to pay for the plans which will be a very small part of the total cost. There are many websites to look at line drawings of traditional designs, including WoodenBoat, and many members here who will offer opinions on various designs, to help you decide.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I don't mean to be curt but if you are indeed a novice you are starting very far up the learning curve and there are not many books that will enable you to vault to that level immediately.
Traditional boatbuilding involves a hoard of manual skills many of which can only be mastered with practice.
If your skill level is as you say and you are determined to construct such a large and somewhat demanding boat you had better have a longish time line.
There are plenty of free sailboat plans about but none for a boat as large and as stylish as you desire.
Charlie

[John Turpin]

I planned on starting project like yours last year, but decided to build a dinghy instead. I'm really glad that I tackled a "learning" boat first. While I still consider myself a novice (and probably always will), I'm very glad that I have that experience under my belt. I'm starting my next boat this winter and it will be a 20' gunter yawl.

You can definately start "big", but starting small gave me skills I'll need on my next boat. The book I leaned on was Devlin's stitch and glue book.

[Ken Hutchins]

'Details of Classic Boatbuilding' by Larry Pardy is also a must read.

[Thad Van Gilder]

When I have taught wooden boat building I recomended Both Bud mcintosh's book and George Bughler's book.

Larry Pardey's book is also very, very helpfull if one were building a similar book.

-Thad

[Clinton B Chase]

Definitely Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction. VERY practical, how to for wood composite construction specifically, not traditional wood construction. They just released there new 5th edition.

Cheers,
Clint
Portland, ME

[Jay Greer]

Two, timeless books, written prior to the use of modern materials are, "Boat Building" by Howard Chapell and "The Common Sense of Yacht Design" by L. Francis Herreshoff. These writings reach back to a time of less complicated living and social needs. I would highly recomennd them just for the insite they provide. Also of interest are "Sensible Cruising Designs" and "An L. Francis Herreshoff Reader" by Herreshoff. Although he was opinionated and preferred rather Sparten appointments, Mr. Herreshoff's logic is nearly as applicable today as it was when he first began writing for Rudder Magazine.

[RodB]

Good advice here and good suggestions on books you can read.

We can give you a list of 20 books on boatbuilding and you will probably say as before, you want to get them for free and not spend any money just like the plans you are after. I remember your last thread.

I must have at least 15 various books on boatbuilding from Ian Nicholsons book on cold molded and strip planked building to several on traditional boatbuilding...and I would not want to give up any of them...plus I would find it difficult to narrow it down to only one book as my reference source.

Probably most on this forum have hundreds of dollars invested in various books on boatbuilding and boat designs. There are no shortcuts and I agree with the above comments that building traditionally with a major project would be quite a challange without a mentor to walk you through it.

I don't mean to be rude...but you need to educate yourself to gain a basic understanding of the types of boatbuilding that exist and decide on which method matches your skills, resources, and talents...plus then pick a design. Lots of time can be spent learning about the methodologies and then you spend even more time researching a design.

Good luck

RB

[ 10-30-2005, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Garth Jones]

I'd like to echo what has been said above. Start with a simpler boat, something you can have fun completing and sailing/rowing while you're considering your dream boat.

I'm a professional furniture maker with a well equiped shop but no boatbuilding experience. After a bunch of reading (books and this very fine forum) and two weeks at WoodenBoat School, I settled on Iain Oughtred's Ness Yawl. I'm building the gunter gaff sloop half decked version. As a first boat, it's not too much for me, but anything more would have been. The idea of building a traditionally built cruising boat still seems like way too much for me (personally).

Also, there's the cost - by the time I'm done with 'Goldberry' I'm going to have $3-4000 in her (including sails and trailer) - a big cruising boat would be many times that. Just check out the price of Harken winches!

Anyway, start small, have a blast, and go rowing/sailing/motoring...

Cheers,
Garth

[Thad Van Gilder]

I agree. I think I have the better part of 2 grand in boat and lumber research books. And I bought nearly all at used book stores cheap.

-Thad

[JimD]

A couple days ago I found a copy of LFHs Sensible Cruising Designs for $15 Canadian in a second hand bookstore (paperback).

[Y Bar Ranch]

Kind of went through the same process, looking for key books. Now I own about 10-12 books including all the basics (Chapelle, McIntosh, Devlin, Parker, etc.)

Every single one has something the others don't. None are sufficient. Heck, all of them together aren't sufficent. I'll just have to figure some things out myself, which is why I want to build a boat in the first place.

Also, really good plans with a description of how to build will make a huge difference over just six sheets of a pre-40s design.

Good luck!

[willmarsh3]

I've bought about 50 boat building and design books over several years and read them all. Mostly they seem to cover the hull construction. It is rarer that you see a lot of detail on the rigging, cabinetry, joinery, and other miscelaneous stuff that make up a boat. In the process of building my Elver I had to take a lot of time to dig up this stuff. Also boat plans range from completely detailed to just lines + rigging where the builder fills in the rest using "standard practice". Elver's plans tend more toward the completely detailed side.
I wish to encourage you in your boat building but pls consider building a dinghy first. I built a Shellback dinghy several years ago. It took 4 months to complete but I realized I still liked boat building at the end of that.

BTW Elver is similar in size to what you envision but it took me two years to complete.

Will.

[Mr. Maar]

I don't know what does building a boat really means to you guys, but I am telling you..I can make it for almost for free. I can get wood and lead for free and I am very skilled by the way. A good mentor would be of great help. I thouht you would be much more helpfull to me...I thought you would say do this or that. But thanks anyway. Just writing on the forum is also making some effort and spending some energy (for you guys). I say that becouse I fell sorry for you guys who think that I am one of those who want all for nothing. Actually, I don't have anything to write about on this forum. I just want to build a boat (which is not a dream boat). That's where you have misslead me.

[Stephen Hutchins]

I read several boatbuilding books before I found one that convinced me I could do it within my very confined (at the time) time frame and budget. It was "The New Kayack Shop" By Cris Kulzcycki To me, it was very clearly written. So much so, that by the time I got done with the book, I knew, without a doubt that I could build the Chesapeake 16 in my living room in one week, which was all I could afford in time off at that time. It took me 32 hours to build that boat from scratch--my first boat!--a great testimony to that book. I highly recommend it both to novice and seasond builders.

[ 11-01-2005, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Hutchins ]

[RodB]

I offer the following to hopefully give you a more positive perspective of this forum...as far as time...I'm at work on a slow night and have nothing better to do...perhaps I may end up helping someone to see things in a different light.

Most folks on this forum are seriously interested in wooden boats and have taken time to become familiar with the basic methods of construction and just "some" of the infinite numbers of designs available to the would be boatbuilder. Your questions are so general that its quite difficult to give you a decent answer and you seem to equate boatbuilding with something as simple as wall papering your bedroom.

In your initial post about finding free plans for a design to build, you were totally unresponsive to the many suggestions that quality plans from talented designers were well worth any cost that they would command simply because of the quality of craft you would end up spending your time and money on and more detailed plans would be easier to build from.
Just because boats may look similar, one designed by a master may way outperform the others simply because of the sheer talent and skill of the designer...ie., it takes just as much time to build a crappy design than it takes to build a wonderful design that just "came together" and ended up being a "work of art" in both performance and aesthetics. Many here have taken the time to learn about many of the "works of art in design and performanace"... and would try to steer a novice boatbuilder towards a quality design that was well worth a long term investment in time and money.

Bottom line, given some basic criteria, many here could suggest a design for you to build that would have plans available for very little cost. I seem to remember you not liking any of the suggestions you got in your earlier post...especially if the plans cost anything at all. Now you have changed your size requirements and still no specifications on what type of construction.

Additionally, now you want a reference book that will supply step by step procedures (like a cook book) to just walk you through building a boat, no matter whether it is traditional or modern epoxy composite...and you do not seem to want to spend any time or trouble to become acquainted with the different processes of building a boat. Several here have tried to get the point across that even with several books you will still need to "fill in the gaps" to complete a boat...and the more books you read, the better off you will be...and nothing will take the place of a good mentor if one is available.

If you go to the trouble of acquiring a fundamental background on wooden boatbuilding then you will find that your preferences will start to surface and you will come up with a ever growing list of criteria for the boat you wish to build. Your "tastes" will change over time as you learn more about all the wonderful boat designs available in the world and as you become more knowledgable. Wouldn't it be a shame to spend a few years building a boat that it turned out you were not satisfied with...and could have been improved on immensely with just a bit of research and education?

Finally, if you are just interested in building a boat with no regard to quality of design and "proper building techniques" then pick any cheap plans that suit and are available and proceed with trying to build her. I am sure most here would wish you good luck. With common sense and some ability which you claim to have, you should be successful even if the "almost free plans don't provide lots of details... but as you know, a little research and pre planning can result in a much better end product. . . most here in one way or another have been trying to get that point across....that if you take time to get a little education, you will end up with a better project in the end. After all, the basic principles of the different boatbuilding methods are quite easy to get reading many of the books suggested... the Macintosh book you have ordered is pretty damn good for traditional boatbuilding. The folks on this forum would only want you to be successful and to really enjoy the boat you build.

Good luck,

RB

[ 10-31-2005, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[guillemot]

I want to build a cruising boat some day too. It was reccomended to me by this group to start smaller - excellent advice. I bought a copy of John Gardner's Dory Book and his Building Classic Small Craft and would reccomend getting a copy of Greg Rossel's indispensable "Building Small Boats " (all available from the Wooden boat store through www.woodenboat.com, i believe). I have lot more books than those three (not like Thad's collection), but Gardner's two books have enough plans and instruction to get you started on a traditional building project, and Rossel's book fills in the holes that Gardner leaves with excellent how-to details that I just haven't found in other texts (things like "how should I attach the oar locks, build a breasthook, install quarter-knees, select the lumber for this part, etc...). Many boatbuilding books seem to assume that an experienced old hand is watching over your shoulder, and the books are there as references. Gardner and Rossel don't assume that. I'd spring for those three books (amazon has a package deal for the two gardner books for $31 today), find a shop space, and get start building something.

As others have said, you'll need to learn a lot of hard skills,and acquire tools ( = expensive, and way easier on your wallet if you do it over time) and it's way better to make your mistakes on a smaller, less precious/expensive practice boat. The skills you pick up will scale up to your bigger project. Plus you'll have something to row/sail around while you're building your bigger boat, and the first boat can still come out looking like a timeless classic. I'm sure glad that I went that route. Some day I'll get to my cruiser. You should think seriously about what these folks are saying. Good luck!

Jeff

edited to correct link

[ 11-01-2005, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: guillemot ]

[Mr. Maar]

I wish I was Noa.

[essaunders]

God certainly didn't tell me how to build my boat... Of course mine is only 9 cubits long.

Seriously, all the posts so far have been in good faith trying to help you on good start. Yes, it is possible to start for free with scrap (or whatever) and build something -- but I'd wager you'd better enjoy the end product if you took some of the advice here. I want a larger boat, but spend a chunk of cash to purchase a kit for a very small boat -- just to get started.

Good luck.