New Canoe Levitates

[Dave Hadfield]

Bump, for the young man in the canoe on the bug-collecting day, who is planning to build a "6-Hour Canoe".

Dave

[mikefrommontana]

Wow, what a great thread. Curiously, with the 38" beam, it's awfully close to a Bolger Teal. But then the Bolger Teal has been compared to a canoe more often than not. The extra 6 feet, no doubt, helps a lot. Like the nailing guide. Good stuff and thanks!

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

[Dave Hadfield]

Bump, for a friend who plans to make one.

Dave

[UCanoe_2]

Dave, your trip report brought back memories of my visit to the Spanish River, from Pogmasing to The Elbow. I love the Budd cars, and wish US railroads would carry canoes in the baggage cars!

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Bump, for a friend who plans to make one.

Dave

If your friend is contemplating building a Six-Hour Canoe I would advise against it. It's OK as a craft project but a lousy canoe. Way too much rocker for paddling in windy conditions. Too much top hamper in the ends for the same reason. There are other pirogues that are much closer to modern thinking about canoe shapes.
Here's an example.
http://www.bateau.com/boats/NC16/index.html

[Dave Hadfield]

Most pirougues are too short, by my way of thinking. Longer is nearly always better -- unless you're wiggling your way through very small very shallow creeks.

What I don't admire about the 6-hour canoe is that it responds to an arbitrary set of design restrictions -- how much boat can you get out of a 4 x 16 ft panel? If you decide to throw out that restriction you can build whatever you want -- it depends on what your requirements are.

Scarfing plywood is not hard at all. And that frees you up.

Dave

[marshallx4]

Hi Dave,
I have been looking over pirogue sites for about two years almost and a week or two I found this posting by accident. What you have built here is pretty much exactly what I'm wanting. My requirements were that it should be able to hold two adults, and some gear, and still be able to navigate waters safely. I also wanted higher sides (10 inches seems pretty short) and I think that the higher sides on this boat would open the boat up to lake waters if the weather is good. I have a few questions though.

Can you validate or answer:
1. Are the sides uniform (not taller at bow or stern)?
2. What angle are the bow and stern (side view), OR what measurements do use to cut the sides so that I get the right flare?
3. What angle are the stems cut at (also that I get the right flare)?

I think I can figure out everything else since you documented most of the measurements already.

Thanks for any help you may be able to provide.

[Dave Hadfield]

Hello Marshall,

The sides are not uniform. They are 16 inches high bow and stern and 14 inches in the middle.

The angle of the bow and stern (the boat is symmetrical) is that the hull bottom is set back 3 1/2 inches

As for the angle of the stems (so that the sides fit on nicely), that was trial and error. I pinched them together with a soft C clamp, then took the angle with a marking gauge, and then of course halfed that for each side.

The flare of the sides is determined by the width amidships at the chine versus the gunwale. (Whatever I said on page 1.)

I'd recommend you make the bottom of marine plywood, or at least something 4-ply. I wouldn't go thicker than 5/16 -- and even a good-quality 1/4 would be fine -- but underlayment may not be strong enough for a wet 200 pounder to jump in with boots. You could glass the bottom of course, but I think another ply of wood is lighter.

The sides are fine made of decent quality underlayment. But beware some of the crap in the big box stores. If the wood has paper-thin surface veneers and a thick core it's no good. You want 3 decent layers, or more.

Any more questions, or measurement, feel free to ask. For what it is, it's a very good boat.

Dave

[marshallx4]

Hi Dave,
Thank you for the information, I have done some more research and actually went to a lumber yard.. they did not have any 1/4 inch , but they had some 1/2 inch Okoume that I was able to look at to get a feel for the thickness of the veneer on it. the 1/2 inch has good layers in it but the veneer was roughly fingernail thickness at best.(normal?.. I don't know) They referred me to a different yard ( was already closed for the day/weekend) which has 1/4 marine plywood, which I think I will look at for the bottom of the boat. maybe the 1/4 okoume would still be ok for the sides though? I'm considering building the boat without a chine (more like a stitch and glue), I will probably have 2 thwarts in addition to the yoke, (which I will may buy, and also get pads for) and I'd like seats that are attached. I'll keep you updated, and once I get my materials I will start my own thread and reference this one.

[Dave Hadfield]

Marshall,

I wouldn't use 1/2 plywood, Okume or otherwise, anywhere in the boat. Too heavy and too stiff. But you wouldn't go wrong using 1/4" marine plywood for the whole project. It'll cost a bit more, but really, over the years you have a boat, the cost of materials seems to vanish. Building a boat is all about labour, and whether the materials bill was $200 or $400 doesn't seem to matter 5 years later.

Keep it lightweight, though. A heavy canoe -- one that needs 2 people or a cart to lift -- isn't a good thing to own.

You can build stitch-and-glue of course, but it isn't much fun. Making shavings from a nice piece of clear pine or spruce is vastly more pleasant than smoothing goops and glues. But hey, it's your project. If you have a clear picture in your mind of how you want to build the thing, go right ahead.

You don't need that many thwarts, but it is a good idea to have carrying-handles (small thwarts) near each end, since this boat has no decks to hook your fingers under.

Enjoy yourself,

Dave

[marshallx4]

Hi Dave,
I ended up getting 3 4x8 marine plywood, and 3 4x8 birch plywood all 1/4inch and both have 3 good layers in them. The 1/2 inch was just to look at for reference. I totally get what you're saying about time vs money too.. and I want to make it so that it will last, be lightweight, and perform well. And since we are into the summer months.. the less time I have to spend in the garage, the better..(its in the 90's and we have had a couple ~100 degree days) I may just stick with the chine like you said. I just need to find some wood for the bow and stern, and some spruce for the chine, etc.

[Dave Hadfield]

Marshall, when it comes to ripping out pieces for the chines and the gunwales, you'll have a hard time finding clear spruce. It isn't marketed that way. But a few tight knots don't really matter. All you need is for the cut piece to take a smooth curve when flexed.

However there is a trick, and you might already know it, but the older and bigger the tree, the more likely you can get clear straight runs. So buy a 2 x 12, at 20 ft long if you can get it, and rip your pieces from that, not a 2 x 4.

You can saw a 2 x 4 from a crappy scrawny little stick of a tree, but to saw a 2 x 12, you need a substantial trunk, and thus it is much more likely there will be some space between the knots.

Dave

[marshallx4]

Hi Dave,
I think I'm confused about the side panels here. Last night I cut all of my birch side sheets into 16 inch panels. An earlier post of yours notes that the bottoms are flat. (which makes sense, given the chine beam, and the gunwale beam).
I drew up a little diagram for visual aid. I originally thought that I needed to create my sides with a curvature on the bottom( A ) but after reading your earlier post (which somehow I missed this part), now I'm thinking it would be straight through cuts on both top and bottom (C).

Imagine that the diagram is of side panels laying down on the floor, or bench, flat, and not attached to the bottom part of the hull:

curvature.gif

Hello Marshall,

The sides are not uniform. They are 16 inches high bow and stern and 14 inches in the middle.

So I worked out the shape and dimensions and numbers with Plyboats, then made a couple of 3'-long models using the TLAR method (that-looks-about-right) for the chine curve. It turns out with that chine beam, and that length, a straight edge on the bottom edge of the sides gives 3" rocker. Also, 3" of rocker gives the right displacement to carry the load of 2 fit adults, plus lunch plus the weight of the canoe, and still leave the stem and stern corners just about to touch the water. It's a pleasant coincidence!

Thank you for the tips on the 2x12...I had not thought of that before!. I did get a 2x6x20 that *may* work when I was at the lumber yard, I'll cut a few strips out of it and see how it works out. I still haven't sourced anything for the bow/stern pieces. I am very grateful for your help, thank you! I think seeing this thread finally got me going on this.... I have actually cut pieces now... and that means I will soon have a boat!

[Dave Hadfield]

Marshall, the sides are 16" in the middle, but 18" at the ends. In other words, you...

join the plywood to make 2 x 18 ft panels
stack them together, so you'll end up cutting both at once (it keeps things symmetric)
leave the bottom edge untouched (straight line)
measure up 16" in the middle and mark a point
measure up 18" at the ends and mark the points
use a long batten and draw a fair curve through the points (this establishes the sweep of the gunwale, a curve)
cut on the line

If you have already cut the sides at 16" right across, well, your bow and stern will be a little low. It'll still float and paddle, but it won't look as nice, and if you're setting it into the water hand-over-hand it'll be easier to take in water over the bow.

Your choice. You can build as you've cut it -- and it will still function -- or make up new sides.

As for the stem and stern pieces, they can be almost any wood at all. They only serve as something to anchor the screws. You assemble the structure as in the book "6-Hour Canoe" -- you screw the sides onto the temporary midship frame, bring the ends together, hold them there with tape or a helper, use a bevel gauge to copy the angle they make, and use that angle to cut the stem and stern pieces on a table saw. Then glue and screw the sides to these pieces, being careful to keep everything lines up and symmetrical.

When you put the bottom on, you make it bigger than required by an inch or so all around -- you'll trim it to fit later (as in the photos of the nailing-day). But to keep everything aligned you've snapped a chalkline down the center of the bottom, and make sure it aligns with a center-mark on the temp midships frame, and also the points of the ends. That way your canoe doesn't have a warp built in.

Hope this helps,

Dave

[Phil Y]

Great thread thanks dave-very much looking at building one in my little neck of the woods

[dylan winter]

build a duck punt

you can sail it as well then

it paddles beautifully as well

free plans

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/cat...ck-punt-films/

paddling starts at about 7 mins in