New Canoe Levitates

[Dave Hadfield]

I'm making a new canoe. My local river is navigable all summer, but has many boulder-gardens, so I prefer to run it with a very shallow-draft canoe, and one in which I don't worry too much about scraping over a rock. I avoid paddling it with my good prospector.

So a few years ago I designed and built one to match this requirement for solo paddling. It's 15' 6" long (the length of 2 ply panels, scarfed). And it does very well! But it draws too much if 2 paddlers get in.

Thus, I worked up another that draws 3" with 2 adults and a bag or 2 on board. I bit the bullet and made 2 scarph joints in each panel.

18' long
38" beam at gunwales,
31" beam at chine
3" rocker at each end
symmetrical
14" depth
1/4" underlayment ply
chine logs and outwales from a 20' spruce 2x10
polyurethane glue, screws, ringed bronze boat nails

Anyway, I used a 2-part tackle to turn it, and when it was aloft, I admired the shape.

[Dave Hadfield]

Here's the bottom, cut oversized and also held aloft. I'll set it down in stages as I glue and nail it in place.

[Dave Hadfield]

Here's the jig I use to plane the chines evenly.

[Dave Hadfield]

Close-up.

[Pernicious Atavist]

So far, so nice! Thanks for the shots of the 'chineplane.'

[MiddleAgesMan]

Yes indeedy.

Are the sides straight cuts top and bottom?

Did you plan for 3" of rocker? If so, what steps are involved to arrive at a given amount?

[Dave Hadfield]

I designed it on Plyboats, which I find dead-easy to use. Unfortunately, it is so old that I can't get it to print, and the layout data (how far in from the reference you measure to lay out the points, which you later connect with a batten, to get a fair line) is not displayed on the screen. It only gets delivered when you successfully print! Frustrating!

I have both Freeship and BoatExpress, and it looks to me like you've got to study for a week to learn how to use either one -- I don't want to do that. Plyboats is so simple for designing hard-chine boat. (Isn't that just typical with computers? -- designing a boat is far easier than getting somethig to print.)

So I worked out the shape and dimensions and numbers with Plyboats, then made a couple of 3'-long models using the TLAR method (that-looks-about-right) for the chine curve. It turns out with that chine beam, and that length, a straight edge on the bottom edge of the sides gives 3" rocker. Also, 3" of rocker gives the right displacement to carry the load of 2 fit adults, plus lunch plus the weight of the canoe, and still leave the stem and stern corners just about to touch the water. It's a pleasant coincidence!

The boat will draw no more that 3", be maneuverable (because the stem and stern pieces are not immersed), and it's cheap enough to regard as somewhat sacrificial.

It'll weigh 75 lbs, I expect, but this boat is designed to run down a river, and not be portaged a lot.

I'll tape and epoxy the outside chine corners, but that's it. The rest will be alkyd porch and floor enamel, though I'll probably Cetol the outwales.

The seats will be simple bench units not attached to the boat. That's best for quick alterations of trim, and they're very light and simple.

I hope to get the bottom on today!

Dave

[Pernicious Atavist]

Dave, you've been at this long enough to know what works, so how does a design program help someone like yourself with such a simple, natural hull shape?

You say the program is too old to print? Have you tried turning it into a pdf, then printing? {I'm reaching here.} For my fliers, media packs and other documents I need to email as-is, I use doPDF printer [dopdf.com] "doPDF Printer is a virtual printer driver for Windows 2000/XP/XP x64/2003 Server/2003 Server x64/Vista/Vista x64. Instead of printing on paper, it creates Adobe compatible PDF files." This MAY help, or may not, but it's worth a try if you need it.

[Dave Hadfield]

Hi, P.A.

Thanks for the idea. I'll run it by the I.T. department. (!)

The program helps by crunching the numbers. This canoe needs to run small rapids. Thus it needs to swivel easily in the water. Thus it's end corners must be clear of the water. Thus I need to know how much rocker to build-in to float a given hull-weight and payload.

As you say, the rest is just the sweep of a batten, although I tweaked the sheer a bit once I saw it in real life.

I'm looking forward to paddling it solo, heavily leaned, too. The smaller version is a much better boat than most people would give it credit for, although admittedly these are single-purpose designs.

Dave

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I paddle a plywood pirogue called "Cheap Canoe"which, like yours, has panels that are scarfed together. Mine is only 14' x 30" but I wouldn't think of producing it in luan. On the south side of Lake Erie the luan is all " 5.2 mm/water repellant glue" made in some no name third world country.
I used "Multiply" which is a Canadian underlayment product that is plenty capable of suffering a hit on a boulder with no damage suffered.
http://209.190.4.227/gallery/display...lbum=333&pos=8
Good luck.

[jerry bark]

Hi, P.A.

Thanks for the idea. I'll run it by the I.T. department. (!)

my thoughts on that are that you should pick up an old computer from a yard sale that had DOS *.* on it. it will likely print just fine with an old panasonic dot-matrix. then you will have a dedicated boat design network at your place!!

cheers
jerry

[slidercat]

I paddle a plywood pirogue called "Cheap Canoe"which, like yours, has panels that are scarfed together. Mine is only 14' x 30" but I wouldn't think of producing it in luan. On the south side of Lake Erie the luan is all " 5.2 mm/water repellant glue" made in some no name third world country.
I used "Multiply" which is a Canadian underlayment product that is plenty capable of suffering a hit on a boulder with no damage suffered.

I'm glad to hear you say that, because I used Multiply in Slider, my 16 foot beachcruising catamaran.



Unfortunately, I could only get it in 4' X 4' pieces. Lotta scarphing, but I used the Payson technique.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Multiply seems to only be avaialble in 4 x 4 sheets. Mine has three scarfs in each plank.
The boat came off my roofrack and landed in the road and none of the scarfs let go. But the veneers are made from some unkown wood that will start to rot if the epoxy barrier is breached. One of the reasons I kept the boat in varnish was to make certain any microbial action was visible.

[Pernicious Atavist]

So, any progress photos? Now would be a good time to consider a sail rig for it, too. Of course, some would suggest I'm biased.....

[slidercat]

Multiply seems to only be avaialble in 4 x 4 sheets. Mine has three scarfs in each plank.
The boat came off my roofrack and landed in the road and none of the scarfs let go. But the veneers are made from some unkown wood that will start to rot if the epoxy barrier is breached. One of the reasons I kept the boat in varnish was to make certain any microbial action was visible.

It looks to me like birch, and the fact that it turns black pretty easily is an indication. I've left several offcuts out in the backyard under a bush, and while they have started to rot, I don't think they are any more prone to rot than okoume.

How did you remove the green X marks?

[Dave Hadfield]

Progress photos? I had to go on a trip for 4 days, so the bottom is still levitated. But my daughter and boyfriend (for whom this canoe is being made) are planning to be over this evening, and we'll glue and boat-nail the thing on. I hope.

Lauan can be complete crap, of course, but I just keep an eye on the panels at the local Big Box store. Sometimes the surface veneers are paper thin -- no good at all -- but other times they are thicker, and thus the panel is useable.

Obviously being a canoe, continuous immersion is not a factor. The first of these canoes I built, from lauan (virola?) has not delaminated at all, with just paint as a coating. (I only taped the outside chine corners.)

Dave

[Pernicious Atavist]

Dave, does the enamel seem to be an effective sealant for plywood over the long term?

[Dave Hadfield]

I can only speak for myself, of course, but yes, for a canoe or other boat which only sees occasional use (and which is stored away from the sun and rain), the paint does fine.

In fact, this first canoe I made this way was only coated with a boat sauce (linseed oil, wood-and-canvas preservative, pine tar and japan drier) for the first couple of years and did just fine with only that.

It's only when I found that it was actually a good little boat that I deemed it worth the effort of painting. Before that I expected it to be a poor paddling boat, and thus more sacrficial.

Dave

[Dave Hadfield]

Well, they did show up and we got the bottom glued and nailed. Here they are applying and smoothing Polyurethane adhesive from a cartridge. (Cheap and strong, just like them.)

[Dave Hadfield]

Then the bottom was marked for nailing with the pre-made jig.

[Dave Hadfield]

After which the nailing frenzy commenced -- ringed-bronze boat nails.

[Dave Hadfield]

But that was just the front half of the boat. (The glue gets stiff fairly quickly.) Next they switched tools and completed the other half. Here's my daughter Kelly figuring out how a cartridge gun works. Notice how Grant, the boyfriend, has his lips together. Smart.

[Dave Hadfield]

More marking and nailing, followed by a speed-session.

[Dave Hadfield]

And now we have a boat!

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

It looks to me like birch, and the fact that it turns black pretty easily is an indication. I've left several offcuts out in the backyard under a bush, and while they have started to rot, I don't think they are any more prone to rot than okoume.

How did you remove the green X marks?

On the Cheap Canoe I tried to sand them off. It prooved to be a tedious process with the sander I had so some of the Xes were still visible close up. On the D4 I built I had a belt sander so I was able to clean the panels up rather easily. I used it on the Cheap Canoe, too, when I redid the epoxy coating and glassed the bottom.

[Dave Hadfield]

So the next step is turning it over and planing off the excess bottom. Done!

[Pernicious Atavist]

Have you decided on a sail rig yet?

[Dave Hadfield]

Sailing rig? I'd better get it launched first!

But 2 leg o mutton sprits would be a fun winter project. Clip-on leeboard. Steer with weight shift and a paddle.

[Pernicious Atavist]

There ya go, Dave. Knew I'd get through!
With those hard chines you could sail it in the snow, eh? Wonder if anyone's tried that? How could they not?

[Dave Hadfield]

Well, the canoe project stayed hung from the ceiling all winter, while I worked on an old airplane, (Fairchild 24W) but recently I got back at it.

I taped the outside of the chines. (4" tape, epoxy.)



The masking tape, with a fold in it, works well at stopping the drips.

[Dave Hadfield]

Then I got 2 coats of paint on the inside (again, Porch and Floor enamel) Benjamin Moore "Bamboo Beige" with a bit of white thrown in.



followed by a satin Green on the outside.

[outofthenorm]

You made it look easy! How much PL did your crew get on their hands?

This is a neat trick.



- Norm

[Dave Hadfield]

Next, the trim... I like using a yoke, so I worked one up quick and simple, and very cheap, from a 2x6 spruce.



Then put it on the shaving-bench. (You can remove an awful lot of material quickly on a shaving-bench, using axe and draw-knife and spokeshave. And of course -- it's fun!)



Finishing up with a coat of Sikken Cetol (which is also on the outwales).

[Dave Hadfield]

The masking tape trick? Yes, it works great as long as you pull it off after the drips stop, but before it gets too solid.

Yeah, they got sticky hands. It's good for them!

Dave

[ShagRock]

This is a great blog with many nice photos! Thanks for sharing all the build techniques. I really like that 'canoe green' color!

Benjamin Moore has porch and floor (C112) urethane reinforced alkyl enamel. Would you think it superior to their porch and patio (C122) epoxy reinforced acrylic latex for use on a canoe?

[Ahimsakid]

Dave, thanks for a world of info . . . I love your shaving bench!

[Dave Hadfield]

Shag, I think either would work. I'd pick the one less glossy unless the canoe hull surface is perfect.

Ahim, thanks. Yes there's nothing quite like the pleasure of a spokeshave on a long clear piece of spruce held in a shaving bench, with the curly shavings, as long as the piece, dropping into your lap.

Dave

[Dave Hadfield]

Well, it got finished and it got launched. Here's my daughter and her boyfriend (yes, slightly different boyfriend) getting it wet for the first time.



The access point was difficult, and the waters had recently receded, leaving a lot of mud!



She's wearing hip-waders because she's a biologist, and she was climbing in and out to gather various larvae and bugs. (Good thing the boat has some form stability!) Yeah, I know, I told her she'd drown if she dumped, but she went anyway.

[Dave Hadfield]

There is a 3 kt current, so they vanished as they were still getting sorted out, thus I didn't get much of a photo. She's run a number of wilderness rivers with me while growing up, and he's new to it, so she was in the stern.

If you look closely, you can see the stem corner is just touching the water, and the stern corner slightly clear of it. Thus the Plyboat numbers were correct, and the 3" of rocker over the 18 ft hull was just right. It'll be easy by shifting the load to trim the boat as required.



But it all went very well. They figured it out. The boat did fine -- very responsive, apparently. It looked after them. They said they didn't hit any rocks -- and there are lots in that river!

They emerged triumphant.

[Three Cedars]

Well done Dave. Canoes are so handy.

Have you got any photos of your solo canoe ? Dimensions including chine width ?

[John B]

(yes, slightly different boyfriend)

LOL.

[Dave Hadfield]

Bump, for a friend, who may build one this winter.

Dave

BTW -- I paddled it several times this summer, solo. Works just fine. Very shallow draft! Slithers over the gravel beds when you'd swear you were going to ground-out.

[OconeePirate]

Thank you for bumping this, just for the chine planing pictures. When we built our plywood sharpie we took it and drug it up and down the sidewalk to "sand" the chines. Pretty funny since we built the boat at my shop so we were dragging it around downtown at night during peak bar hours.

Crazy part is that not a single person asked us what we were doing. I guess that when folks see you dragging a boat like thing down the sidewalk you fall under a Somebody Else's Problem field?

[Frank R]

Instead of planing after installation, can you rip the chines before glueing them on?

The author here did it with a one person version that is pretty similar. Right at the bottom he mentions he ripped the chines at 20 degrees.

http://www.simplicityboats.com/wackless.html

Seems like it would save a lot of work.

[Dave Hadfield]

To each his own, but planing the chines by hand takes about 20 minutes. Not long at all. And it's a foolproof method of making a perfect mating surface.

Also, it's very pleasant.

But I much prefer the image of half a dozen guys, a case of beer, and a hull being dragged up and down the sidewalk!

Dave

[OconeePirate]

It was only two of us, and we went around and around the block. Took about half an hour.

We were smoking pipes though.

[Ged II]

Thanks for the heads up on your thread, Dave. The description of your intended use for these canoes sounds a lot like what I'm looking for myself. Almost exactly, really.

I think Mr. Bolger's Instant Canoe/Payson's Pirogue is an excellent design, but I do wish it were a little lengthier, beamier, and finer in the ends.

Kudos on the obvious success of your own design! I'm the father of a four-year old girl that I'd like to go paddling with. I sure hope it puts that kind of smile on her face.

[Dave Hadfield]

I thought I'd "bump" this thread because I recently took this canoe on a Wilderness trip. We dropped off the train about 150 miles NW of Sudbury and spent a week wandering the bush.



What's interesting from a boat point of view is that when paddling beside a 17ft Prospector design, the plywood boat did very well. It never lagged, and did it's job properly.






Also, the crew of the plywood boat were a bit green, and the huge initial stability of the flat bottom was very practical for them.



The boat returned quite intact, and ready (bar a few scratches) to go again.

A more in-depth (pun!) description of the trip is at http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/v...p?f=20&t=35771

Dave

[45LCshooter]

Love your planing jig and what you've show can be accomplished on a budget.

I built an experimental v-bottom a few years ago to doodle with stitch and glue designs and to get into the water...instead of scarfs i used butt blocks and instead of epoxy fillets i made rounded pine batten "fillets" to glue to with PL. Hull was stitched together with zip strips and glued with construction adhesive to these battens; keel and chines done the same way. Mostly concerned with bottom shape, i didn't even bother with full-length inwales but did add some thwarts and framed a "cockpit" to ease entering and paddling. i taped the chines with glass and polyester and gave the outside a few coats of porch paint.

I took it home and stored it under a shed (sticking out 1/3) and tree upside down for over a year while i was did other things and finally put it upside-down over an aluminum boat to do trials while my father adjusted his outboard motor. I was somewhat pleased with it but wanted it to track better so i cut a skeg from some 1x3 and screwed it on the next day. It tracked well and i crossed lake Mitchell and back (short jouney, about 1.5k round trip as i was crossing at an angle to a point down river) and put it up as it was taking some water where i installed the skeg. I took it home and set it down upright planning to use it as kindling to put away a tree that pine beatles killed in the back yard. Aside from the skeg (which was uphill) it held water pretty well for some 6 months or better before i ripped the bow off trying to turn it over to dump the ice out during one of our many freezes.

Next time, i think i'll paint inside and out...and use epoxy (or glue to a proper chine log) if it is a good design.

[Wayne Jeffers]

Thanks for posting that, Dave, and the link to the fuller account.

I've recently discovered that part of Canada. It's my newest favorite place, though my interests run more to fishing than to canoeing.

I've made a note to look at our TSC for a pair of those boots.

Wayne