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Thread: New Canoe Levitates

  1. #1
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    Default New Canoe Levitates

    I'm making a new canoe. My local river is navigable all summer, but has many boulder-gardens, so I prefer to run it with a very shallow-draft canoe, and one in which I don't worry too much about scraping over a rock. I avoid paddling it with my good prospector.

    So a few years ago I designed and built one to match this requirement for solo paddling. It's 15' 6" long (the length of 2 ply panels, scarfed). And it does very well! But it draws too much if 2 paddlers get in.

    Thus, I worked up another that draws 3" with 2 adults and a bag or 2 on board. I bit the bullet and made 2 scarph joints in each panel.

    18' long
    38" beam at gunwales,
    31" beam at chine
    3" rocker at each end
    symmetrical
    14" depth
    1/4" underlayment ply
    chine logs and outwales from a 20' spruce 2x10
    polyurethane glue, screws, ringed bronze boat nails

    Anyway, I used a 2-part tackle to turn it, and when it was aloft, I admired the shape.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Here's the bottom, cut oversized and also held aloft. I'll set it down in stages as I glue and nail it in place.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Here's the jig I use to plane the chines evenly.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Close-up.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    So far, so nice! Thanks for the shots of the 'chineplane.'
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  6. #6
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Yes indeedy.

    Are the sides straight cuts top and bottom?

    Did you plan for 3" of rocker? If so, what steps are involved to arrive at a given amount?
    Goat Island Skiff and Simmons Sea Skiff construction photos here:

    http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w...esMan/?start=0

    and here:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/37973275@N03/

    "All kings are not the same."

  7. #7
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    I designed it on Plyboats, which I find dead-easy to use. Unfortunately, it is so old that I can't get it to print, and the layout data (how far in from the reference you measure to lay out the points, which you later connect with a batten, to get a fair line) is not displayed on the screen. It only gets delivered when you successfully print! Frustrating!

    I have both Freeship and BoatExpress, and it looks to me like you've got to study for a week to learn how to use either one -- I don't want to do that. Plyboats is so simple for designing hard-chine boat. (Isn't that just typical with computers? -- designing a boat is far easier than getting somethig to print.)

    So I worked out the shape and dimensions and numbers with Plyboats, then made a couple of 3'-long models using the TLAR method (that-looks-about-right) for the chine curve. It turns out with that chine beam, and that length, a straight edge on the bottom edge of the sides gives 3" rocker. Also, 3" of rocker gives the right displacement to carry the load of 2 fit adults, plus lunch plus the weight of the canoe, and still leave the stem and stern corners just about to touch the water. It's a pleasant coincidence!

    The boat will draw no more that 3", be maneuverable (because the stem and stern pieces are not immersed), and it's cheap enough to regard as somewhat sacrificial.

    It'll weigh 75 lbs, I expect, but this boat is designed to run down a river, and not be portaged a lot.

    I'll tape and epoxy the outside chine corners, but that's it. The rest will be alkyd porch and floor enamel, though I'll probably Cetol the outwales.

    The seats will be simple bench units not attached to the boat. That's best for quick alterations of trim, and they're very light and simple.

    I hope to get the bottom on today!

    Dave

  8. #8
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Dave, you've been at this long enough to know what works, so how does a design program help someone like yourself with such a simple, natural hull shape?

    You say the program is too old to print? Have you tried turning it into a pdf, then printing? {I'm reaching here.} For my fliers, media packs and other documents I need to email as-is, I use doPDF printer [dopdf.com] "doPDF Printer is a virtual printer driver for Windows 2000/XP/XP x64/2003 Server/2003 Server x64/Vista/Vista x64. Instead of printing on paper, it creates Adobe compatible PDF files." This MAY help, or may not, but it's worth a try if you need it.
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  9. #9
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Hi, P.A.

    Thanks for the idea. I'll run it by the I.T. department. (!)

    The program helps by crunching the numbers. This canoe needs to run small rapids. Thus it needs to swivel easily in the water. Thus it's end corners must be clear of the water. Thus I need to know how much rocker to build-in to float a given hull-weight and payload.

    As you say, the rest is just the sweep of a batten, although I tweaked the sheer a bit once I saw it in real life.

    I'm looking forward to paddling it solo, heavily leaned, too. The smaller version is a much better boat than most people would give it credit for, although admittedly these are single-purpose designs.

    Dave

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    I paddle a plywood pirogue called "Cheap Canoe"which, like yours, has panels that are scarfed together. Mine is only 14' x 30" but I wouldn't think of producing it in luan. On the south side of Lake Erie the luan is all " 5.2 mm/water repellant glue" made in some no name third world country.
    I used "Multiply" which is a Canadian underlayment product that is plenty capable of suffering a hit on a boulder with no damage suffered.
    http://209.190.4.227/gallery/display...lbum=333&pos=8
    Good luck.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    Hi, P.A.

    Thanks for the idea. I'll run it by the I.T. department. (!)

    my thoughts on that are that you should pick up an old computer from a yard sale that had DOS *.* on it. it will likely print just fine with an old panasonic dot-matrix. then you will have a dedicated boat design network at your place!!

    cheers
    jerry

  12. #12

    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyahoga Chuck View Post
    I paddle a plywood pirogue called "Cheap Canoe"which, like yours, has panels that are scarfed together. Mine is only 14' x 30" but I wouldn't think of producing it in luan. On the south side of Lake Erie the luan is all " 5.2 mm/water repellant glue" made in some no name third world country.
    I used "Multiply" which is a Canadian underlayment product that is plenty capable of suffering a hit on a boulder with no damage suffered.
    I'm glad to hear you say that, because I used Multiply in Slider, my 16 foot beachcruising catamaran.



    Unfortunately, I could only get it in 4' X 4' pieces. Lotta scarphing, but I used the Payson technique.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Multiply seems to only be avaialble in 4 x 4 sheets. Mine has three scarfs in each plank.
    The boat came off my roofrack and landed in the road and none of the scarfs let go. But the veneers are made from some unkown wood that will start to rot if the epoxy barrier is breached. One of the reasons I kept the boat in varnish was to make certain any microbial action was visible.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    So, any progress photos? Now would be a good time to consider a sail rig for it, too. Of course, some would suggest I'm biased.....
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  15. #15

    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyahoga Chuck View Post
    Multiply seems to only be avaialble in 4 x 4 sheets. Mine has three scarfs in each plank.
    The boat came off my roofrack and landed in the road and none of the scarfs let go. But the veneers are made from some unkown wood that will start to rot if the epoxy barrier is breached. One of the reasons I kept the boat in varnish was to make certain any microbial action was visible.
    It looks to me like birch, and the fact that it turns black pretty easily is an indication. I've left several offcuts out in the backyard under a bush, and while they have started to rot, I don't think they are any more prone to rot than okoume.

    How did you remove the green X marks?


  16. #16
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Progress photos? I had to go on a trip for 4 days, so the bottom is still levitated. But my daughter and boyfriend (for whom this canoe is being made) are planning to be over this evening, and we'll glue and boat-nail the thing on. I hope.

    Lauan can be complete crap, of course, but I just keep an eye on the panels at the local Big Box store. Sometimes the surface veneers are paper thin -- no good at all -- but other times they are thicker, and thus the panel is useable.

    Obviously being a canoe, continuous immersion is not a factor. The first of these canoes I built, from lauan (virola?) has not delaminated at all, with just paint as a coating. (I only taped the outside chine corners.)

    Dave

  17. #17
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Dave, does the enamel seem to be an effective sealant for plywood over the long term?
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  18. #18
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    I can only speak for myself, of course, but yes, for a canoe or other boat which only sees occasional use (and which is stored away from the sun and rain), the paint does fine.

    In fact, this first canoe I made this way was only coated with a boat sauce (linseed oil, wood-and-canvas preservative, pine tar and japan drier) for the first couple of years and did just fine with only that.

    It's only when I found that it was actually a good little boat that I deemed it worth the effort of painting. Before that I expected it to be a poor paddling boat, and thus more sacrficial.

    Dave

  19. #19
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Well, they did show up and we got the bottom glued and nailed. Here they are applying and smoothing Polyurethane adhesive from a cartridge. (Cheap and strong, just like them.)




  20. #20
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Then the bottom was marked for nailing with the pre-made jig.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    After which the nailing frenzy commenced -- ringed-bronze boat nails.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    But that was just the front half of the boat. (The glue gets stiff fairly quickly.) Next they switched tools and completed the other half. Here's my daughter Kelly figuring out how a cartridge gun works. Notice how Grant, the boyfriend, has his lips together. Smart.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    More marking and nailing, followed by a speed-session.




  24. #24
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    And now we have a boat!


  25. #25
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Quote Originally Posted by slidercat View Post
    It looks to me like birch, and the fact that it turns black pretty easily is an indication. I've left several offcuts out in the backyard under a bush, and while they have started to rot, I don't think they are any more prone to rot than okoume.

    How did you remove the green X marks?

    On the Cheap Canoe I tried to sand them off. It prooved to be a tedious process with the sander I had so some of the Xes were still visible close up. On the D4 I built I had a belt sander so I was able to clean the panels up rather easily. I used it on the Cheap Canoe, too, when I redid the epoxy coating and glassed the bottom.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    So the next step is turning it over and planing off the excess bottom. Done!


  27. #27
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Have you decided on a sail rig yet?
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  28. #28
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Sailing rig? I'd better get it launched first!

    But 2 leg o mutton sprits would be a fun winter project. Clip-on leeboard. Steer with weight shift and a paddle.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    There ya go, Dave. Knew I'd get through!
    With those hard chines you could sail it in the snow, eh? Wonder if anyone's tried that? How could they not?
    Ed Maurer
    Skinny Hull sailing magazinewww.skinnyhull.com
    Florida Fly Fishing Magazine http://FlaFlyFish.com/

  30. #30
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Well, the canoe project stayed hung from the ceiling all winter, while I worked on an old airplane, (Fairchild 24W) but recently I got back at it.

    I taped the outside of the chines. (4" tape, epoxy.)



    The masking tape, with a fold in it, works well at stopping the drips.


  31. #31
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Then I got 2 coats of paint on the inside (again, Porch and Floor enamel) Benjamin Moore "Bamboo Beige" with a bit of white thrown in.



    followed by a satin Green on the outside.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    You made it look easy! How much PL did your crew get on their hands?

    This is a neat trick.



    - Norm

  33. #33
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    Next, the trim... I like using a yoke, so I worked one up quick and simple, and very cheap, from a 2x6 spruce.



    Then put it on the shaving-bench. (You can remove an awful lot of material quickly on a shaving-bench, using axe and draw-knife and spokeshave. And of course -- it's fun!)



    Finishing up with a coat of Sikken Cetol (which is also on the outwales).


  34. #34
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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    The masking tape trick? Yes, it works great as long as you pull it off after the drips stop, but before it gets too solid.

    Yeah, they got sticky hands. It's good for them!

    Dave

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    Default Re: New Canoe Levitates

    This is a great blog with many nice photos! Thanks for sharing all the build techniques. I really like that 'canoe green' color!

    Benjamin Moore has porch and floor (C112) urethane reinforced alkyl enamel. Would you think it superior to their porch and patio (C122) epoxy reinforced acrylic latex for use on a canoe?
    G. Rowe (Bayman)

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