Identify this boat..

[GaryK]

I thought I better take this conversation out of the bilge...
This is our Van Der Statd (as the rego papers say), 24' version, might be 30 or 40 years old, be buggered if i find out more about her (the previous owner called her an Endeavour, !?)..

Any ideas on what her model name she is, or where study plans can be obtained? ta

[The Bigfella]

Its definitely a GM car - a Commodore, looks like a VS to me - with Rola roof racks and black tyres.

Can't help with the boat ID though. Good luck

[SchoonerRat]

Looks like it could be a Thunderbird but the swing keel doesn't quite belong.

http://www.thunderbirdsailing.org

[WX]

GaryK, Peter is right I am green with envy. If I had known about the Badger 20+ years it would have been my choice. I read voyaging on a Small Income and was totally sold on the design long before I got to the last page.
I'm in the final (fingers Xed) stages of building a Hartley Spindrift 24 which will be Junk rigged. Single mast with a cambered sail of 326 square feet.
When you have finished I think I will have a sudden urge to visit my brother down at Park Ridge.

[PeterSibley]

[GaryK]

Looks like a Primaat

Did a search for Primaat and I think you are right!
Found these pics in Google's cache:


I much prefer the keel on this one!
Thanks Paul

[hansp77]

I'll take this from Oz Politics and reply here

Bloody hell hansp, our current boat is a Van Der Stadt, 24' version, might be 30 or 40 years old, be buggered if i find out more about her (the previous owner called her an Endeavour, !?)..
May I ask, where can one find Van Der Statd study plans? I emailled the outfit who handles Van Der Stadt and they were hopeless.

So our boats are related Gary,
no doubt you have already found that this is a family that is very hard to find information about.

I'll answer your question first before I waffle on.
The plans that I posted,
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t...studyplan1.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t...studyplan2.jpg
I received over the internet from someone who had purchase the Van De Stadt book. When you get the book it includes a CD with study plans from a number of designs. However, I also have the paper full set of original plans that came with my boat when I bought it.
I would have bought the book but apparently it doesn't say anything about my design.

I have tried to email Van De Stadt getting any information whatsoever about my design- and got no reply.

Your boat?
My money is on what Paul Fitzgerald said on Oz Politics,
I think it is a Primaat.

If you read this thread,
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum//showthread.php?t=12713
down the bottom is a guy named Peter Plones who said the CD has 4 images of the Primaat on it. Maybe try to contact him (though he hasn't posted much, he seems to have current activity) and see if he might pass on the images like he offered to someone else a few years ago.

Googling for primaat and 'van de stadt' (not der) comes up with some images.



EDIT- crossed posts with you Gary, looks like you have figured it out.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I dragged out my old Vandestadt plans book, from around 1980.
It doesn't list the Primaat plans.
Your keel looks different, and I was wondering if it was one of their early trailer sailor plans. I recall a mate built one around 22' called something like a Highwayman.

The book lists a similar boat at 6.5m called a Carabo.

In the early 80's I built a cold moulded Zeemin (minitonner) and a mate built a Mermaid (cold moulded 36 footer), so we were pretty interested in Vandestadt designs.

Anyhoo, the Zeemin plans came with three keel versions, a fin, a centerboard with internal ballast in the boat, and a shoal draft version with the sort of keel you have, so it could easily have been an optional keel on a Primaat.

Still have the Zeemin plans and a set of Jupiter (30' round bilge) plans.

There is a really nice 30 footer for sale on the central coast at the moment (no connection), I think it is a Zeester.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-fo...aspx?R=6255558

I would have been keen on it a few years ago. Good boat for a young bloke starting to cruise.

[GaryK]

Hansp, Paul,
Thanks, it's nice knowing what it is, much appreciated.

Not so important I have study plans as I'm not interested in modifying it too much. Most the work i've done on it involves 'keeping up' with whats needed. I have cut out almost all the rot from the cabin, replaced the sides (as you can see the windows are different between the 2 pictures) and is due for an antifoul next week. Seeing the amount of Jarrah used in its construction is a telltale sign it is WA built.

I am not a fan of its swing keel though, it dangles, it makes a clunking sound when sailing off the wind, reminding me to winch it up I suppose. And the boat rolls terribly in less than calm anchorages.

It is a fun boat to have gliding around Comet Bay, keeping the dolphins company and it has done 2 Rottnest trips too (65 Nm round trip.)

[GaryK]

GaryK, Peter is right I am green with envy. If I had known about the Badger 20+ years it would have been my choice. I read voyaging on a Small Income and was totally sold on the design long before I got to the last page.
I'm in the final (fingers Xed) stages of building a Hartley Spindrift 24 which will be Junk rigged. Single mast with a cambered sail of 326 square feet.
When you have finished I think I will have a sudden urge to visit my brother down at Park Ridge.

I have been lurking here long enough to have seen pics of your hartley. Doing a fine job there. As to the junk rig, I could've gone either way (junk or gaff rig), it was my partner, on reading Annie Hill's book who was sold on the idea (she's as keen on sailing as I am). As far as construction is concerned, free standing masts seem easier to do, no bow sprit, chainplates and sails you can sew yourself.
I remember there was a thread where you discussed mast building, I wonder where it is...

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Gary, is that a Bolger Nymph you are towing?

[GaryK]

Gary, is that a Bolger Nymph you are towing?

Thats the one. Built it last year from plans in Payson's book.
Wish it was more stable though...

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I have two, I built them with an extra 6" beam by just widening the bottom and transoms.
I reckon they are prefect just a bit wider than the original plan.

[GaryK]

That would be a Rubens nymph adding 6" width?
Very fast rowing dinghys thats for sure.

[Steve Paskey]

That would be a Rubens nymph adding 6" width?
Very fast rowing dinghys thats for sure.

Not quite -- a true Rubens Nymph adds 12" to the beam. Not sure what you'd call it with 6".

[Paul Fitzgerald]

That would be a Rubens nymph adding 6" width?
Very fast rowing dinghys thats for sure.

Nymph is 3'6" beam.
Reubens Nymph is 4'6" beam.
Mine are 4'0" beam, half way.

More of a Botticelli Nymph.

[GaryK]

Nymph is 3'6" beam.
Reubens Nymph is 4'6" beam.
Mine are 4'0" beam, half way.

More of a Botticelli Nymph.

Probably a good idea, when I researched it last year consensus was Reubens was too wide. Mines a wee bit tender, fallen once whilst stepping into from the sailboat. I'm not sure how it would work with a sailing rig.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I have made and lost (i.e."donated") a few Bolger elegant punts, which were a bit tippy at 3'6" beam, so I made one with a 4' beam, which was great.

The 3'6" Nymph was never going to suit, and I made a 4' one at the start.

I have used a lot of tenders, and I think this one it the best deal yet in an 8' pram.

Interestingly, if you look closely at LF Herreshoff's Nereia dinghy, it is very similar to the elegant punt, with slightly less rocker and increased beam to around 3'10".
I think most of the Bolger prams are too narrow, but then he is not a big bloke and I am.

[WX]

Here you go Gary, it's the best site I know of for hollow mast construction.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/...outh/index.htm

[GaryK]

Here you go Gary, it's the best site I know of for hollow mast construction.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/...outh/index.htm

I'm familiar with birdsmouth construction, however it doesnt look easy, you must epoxy the whole thing in one session and not screw up. Bertrand's strip mast method looks easier, you can glue a section a day at a time, in other words, take your time. Bertrands explanation is here. Seems to be the best one sofar.

[StevenBauer]

Yikes! Bertrand's method sounds like much, much more work than a birdsmouth spar. The birdsmouth glue-up is not as difficult as you make it sound. I was intimidated at first, too, but after I'd done it I was thinking "man, that was easier than I thought it would be." And the whole bi-conic thing? Is he talking about tapering both ends of the spar? Very easy with birdsmouth.

Steven

[GaryK]

Yikes! Bertrand's method sounds like much, much more work than a birdsmouth spar. The birdsmouth glue-up is not as difficult as you make it sound. I was intimidated at first, too, but after I'd done it I was thinking "man, that was easier than I thought it would be." And the whole bi-conic thing? Is he talking about tapering both ends of the spar? Very easy with birdsmouth.

Steven

What is so hard about Bertand's method? He tapers the staves, just like you do with birdsmouth staves, except you don't need to bother with the birdsmouth bit. Still need to set up forms in a straight line with birdsmouth. Initial setup looks about the same amount of work.

[Peter Plones]

Gary, i missed your post, sorry. ( a lot of sailing this summer) It sure looks like a Primaat, designed by van de Stadt in 1962.
Some details:
Loa 7 m 10 cm
Lwl 5 m 50 cm
Draft (original keel, you seem to have a modified version) 1 m 20 cm
Sailing area 24,8 square meter

A quick and dirty translation from Dutch to English of the article in the book E.G van de Stadt pioneer in yachtbuilding ( so skip the translation errors)
The primaat was designed as a seaworthy multy chine yacht for amature building in Bruynzeel grade multyplex. It was intended as a small cruiser for usage in inshore an coastal waters. It was te succesor of the Juno design(1951) The boat ws intended for easy amature building and was designed to perform well in sailing competitions under RORC rules. The transom and rear end of the ship were designed to be narrower and faster.
A Primaat can be easily indentified by the fischbone style of stringers in the interior, this made the boat a lot stiffer and worked around rottage of stringers and skin by condesation water.
Approximately 700 Primaten were built worldwide.
The stock plan of the Primaat should still be available by van de Stadt design. If i can find the CD of the designs I can send you a copy of the study plans.
You can contact me via my e mail adress.

[WX]

Gary I don't think the birdsmouth technique is that difficult. It had me worried at it's apparent complexity to start with until I realised the birdsmouth is a 45 degree slot in one side. All you need is a 45 degree cutter and a reasonable router table. As for the lay up, once you have your jigs setup and level it's just a matter of putting it together and strapping it with tape, tiewire or similar.
Of course I haven't done it myself yet

[GaryK]

Gary, i missed your post, sorry. ( a lot of sailing this summer) It sure looks like a Primaat, designed by van de Stadt in 1962.
Some details:
Loa 7 m 10 cm
Lwl 5 m 50 cm
Draft (original keel, you seem to have a modified version) 1 m 20 cm
Sailing area 24,8 square meter

A quick and dirty translation from Dutch to English of the article in the book E.G van de Stadt pioneer in yachtbuilding ( so skip the translation errors)
The primaat was designed as a seaworthy multy chine yacht for amature building in Bruynzeel grade multyplex. It was intended as a small cruiser for usage in inshore an coastal waters. It was te succesor of the Juno design(1951) The boat ws intended for easy amature building and was designed to perform well in sailing competitions under RORC rules. The transom and rear end of the ship were designed to be narrower and faster.
A Primaat can be easily indentified by the fischbone style of stringers in the interior, this made the boat a lot stiffer and worked around rottage of stringers and skin by condesation water.
Approximately 700 Primaten were built worldwide.
The stock plan of the Primaat should still be available by van de Stadt design. If i can find the CD of the designs I can send you a copy of the study plans.
You can contact me via my e mail adress.

Peter, check your inbox.

I found out a little of its past, it was a fast boat in club races on the Swan River 20 years ago. Though today, the sails are a bit old.
These must be the fishbone stringers:

[Peter Plones]

Yes that seems to be a Primaat Gary, I didn't recieve anaything in my mailbox but I will try to sent you the drawings, they are in TIF format, you can use MS Paint !! to open.

[WX]

Nice open plan interior there Gary.
BTW Love the sunset photo in post 9....beautiful.