Grand Banks Dory.

[JimD]

A 19 footer from Spira: http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_alas.html

[Grizz_]

JimD,

I'd say you're right. The bank dory is the one ton pickup of its time. Or two ton flatbed in the case of the St Pierre version. I think it's a case of mistaken identity, and there are many boats that are better fits for the family boat that's contemplated.

However, you could fit that family into that dory in the picture and have a fantastically great time. Mine was laid out the same way with the inboard motor well.

[Grizz_]

Terry, I suppose we may have crossed wakes. I fished in SE for 28 years and sold a lot of fish at the COOP and bought a lot of fuel at the docks...

I'm living in WA and miss Alaska and would like to move to Idaho too. So many states, so little time..,

Grizz

[TerryLL]

Grizz,
Small world. I starting work at the COOP in '85 driving forklift, then spent a couple years of the front dock, then another year running the new cold storage. If you were delivering about that time chances are pretty good we talked on the radio. Care to share a boat name?

[Grizz_]

Grizz,
Small world. I starting work at the COOP in '85 driving forklift, then spent a couple years of the front dock, then another year running the new cold storage. If your were delivering about that time chances are pretty good we talked on the radio. Care to share a boat name?

I think I was still fishing Bonny M in '85. I converted a Navy Yard Tug to a fish boat and named her Dry Pass. Ring any bells? I fished until 1999. Lots of water under those keels...,

[TerryLL]

Yup. I remember the Dry Pass. You tied up in Thomsen Harbor as I recall. The Bonny M sounds familiar, but I just can't picture the boat in my mind. My fish plant days are mostly a blur. Month after month on a 12 and 12 schedule. Work, eat, sleep, do it again. A day off seemed like being let out of prison. I'm sure you know. I at least got to sleep in a bed that wasn't moving.

[Grizz_]

Yup. I remember the Dry Pass. You tied up in Thomsen Harbor as I recall. The Bonny M sounds familiar, but I just can't picture the boat in my mind. My fish plant days are mostly a blur. Month after month on a 12 and 12 schedule. Work, eat, sleep, do it again. A day off seemed like being let out of prison. I'm sure you know. I at least got to sleep in a bed that wasn't moving.

Well, it's great to cross tacks again in the etherseas. My longest dory trip was under power from Juneau to Secret Cove where I began my commercial fishing career. Lots of likewise blurry memories, mostly good 'uns in my reverie.

Kudos for your voyage and for sticking it out for so long. And a hat-tip to the OP, I hijacked the thread rowing down memory inlet.

Back to the original question, the dory is at a disadvantage in very short steep choppy seas, it's why the sharpies and double wedge chine boats evolved on the Chesepeake. Dorys also have a lot of windage and that can be detrimental if you want to go precisely that way. If you want to go with it though, trim bow high and there ya go!

Best,

Grizz

[S B]

SB,
I'm kind of confused by your posts in this thread, and on another thread, about what constitutes a "dory". I was under the impression that the historical use of the name derived from having a flat bottom laid fore and aft, as opposed to a sharpie, which had a flat bottom cross-planked. With modern materials, this distinction is lost, with plywood dories and plywood sharpies sharing similar construction characteristics.

Rudders, centerboards, cabins, and ballast were all used on historical dories since at least the mid 1800's, perhaps earlier.

I'm very interested in dory history and evolution of the type in general. If you have some perspective on what constitutes a true dory, I'd love to hear it.

The "banking dory" as it was refered to here, was a design in it's own right. There was variation between builders, but the model was recognizeable to anyone familiar with it. My only arguement/problem with modifications to the design is that you end up with something new, and it should be described as such. Let me put it another way, if you started with a Haven 12 1/2 made it twice as big, installed an engine instead of sails, would it be a fair statement to name it a Haven 12 1/2. IMHO no.

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi all
interesting conversation.
in regard to sharpies vs. dory's yes the planking is important, with ply the fundamental difference is how the hull shape is achieved, in a sharpie the sides are sprung to shape and the bottom overlaps and is trimed to fit the sides, in a dory the bottom is cut to shape, frames installed, sprung to rocker shape and then the planks go on over lapping the bottom, this is the technique I would call "dory built"
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[patrice Hubert]

Perhaps a bit late to make a kote but i think it could be a mistake the beam for the alaskan is abaout 6 feet but not 2,80 metter certainly more accurate 1,80 metter

[wtarzia]

I've owned only a sailing dory skiff, and a small one at that, that experience doesn't count much except for the trailering issue. I think Thorne said it all in his first post, though.

As for trailering, I had a Lowell dory from back in the day when they tried to solve the dry-sailing problem by encapsulating the bottom and garboard in West epoxy (and with 1/4 inch poured in the bottom, which in laters years tended to be too stiff and cracked) and glassed the outside bottom and garboard. I think they were also making the garboard out of marine ply to solve the commopn garboard splitting problem (I saw some very old dorys at the old commercial shop that had come in with what was probably a common repair -- tin nailed over garboard splits). I forget what the current nonprofit museum shop does with this now -- Graham, are you here to answer? The epoxy covered the first garboard-to-lower strake overlap. They ran a bead of polysulfide inside the laps above. The boat stayed pretty tight a few seasons, but afterward, the water would pour through the laps when you were sailing and heeled over (and a dory sails heeled over!) -- but when rowing, no problem. That was livable, since water came over the gunwales anyway in a good breeze, but the laps went through cycles of wet and dry, which is very bad. Especially if you store in a garage with door closed, which can extend the drying time thus the stage where the fungus can operate. I got some clear deterioration between the laps and had to do a repair once. After that experience I resolved never to have a solid wood boat again if I could not keep it at a mooring or dock during the sailing season -- however, if you can store the boat on its trailer under a kind of car-port thing in the free breeze, that might be OK (and avoids the rain rot problem that an imperfectly covered boat at mooring can have), but NOT in an enclosed garage (fool that I was, I thought I was being nice to my first boat, kicking my car outside!).

I have rented (when they still had it) the 20 Banks dory at Lowells to row in the river, and it is great for losing weight and getting strong, but as a way of life for getting someplace when the wind dies, oh man..... windage from hell, among other issues.

I often rent the swampscott-type dory at Mystic Seaport to row on the river there, and though not a performance rower like the Whitehall, it is a great boat, quite noticeably better to row than a banks dory, a joy to spin around and have general fun in (though it is smaller than the 20 ft banks so the comparison here is not entirely fair), and having often tested the initial stability vs. ultimate stability of that rounded-hull boat I can say you would be pleased (note: do not try to educate your girlfriend/wife in these physics while on the boat, as enthusiastic as you may be -- you will earn no points). Too bad it is a far more challenging design to build compared to the straight sided dory; otherwise, I suppose, this species would take over the small-monohull-boat world with its darwinistic superiority!

A comment -- I wonder if a Banks dory would be a great choice were one to sail with a water-ballast compartment? That would give safe ballast, drainable for ride home, and give the needed 300 pounds to reduce tiddliness. That might be quite an adventure boat, easy to build as things go, but still slow, and perhaps this is only a solo-expeditioner design -- with lots of kids, there's your ballast! -- Wade

[aprophet]

Where can I find Cullers plans? That is something along the line of what I am looking for.

I have been down the sharpie path before...a Bolger design. Most of Parkers designs are ply and epoxy.

smaller sharpies can be cross planked if you don't want dukie smutz mine live in the water BTW

[Gillig]

My Cape Ann had neither keel, gripe, nor skeg, only the rudder and centerboard. Sailing downwind in big following seas she would surf contendedly down the wave face, wait patiently for the next wave to catch her, lift her stern, and take off again. Her cut-away forefoot never gave any hint of bow-steering, and I never once took water on the aft deck, or the foredeck either. In quartering or beam seas she would just lean away from the waves and roll up and over. I can't imagine a keel would have improved her performance. And she did draw only 10", board up.

Google search of Cape Ann Dory led me here. Is it O.K. to resurrect old threads like this? Not a regular here, so go ahead and "let-me-have -it" if I am breaking any protocols. Personally, I would probably not appreciate someone digging up a comment I made from 12 years ago.

But....!!!!
Read this quoted phrase above from TerryLL again! I think this is great stuff...and speaks volumes of how the sea does not change...only our values and perceptions.
I've been trying to find more info on the Cape Ann. I think it's an alteration on the Grand Banks form...(dory/skiff?).

On yet another Woodenboat Forum thread, I found the Cape Ann was available at the Dynamite Payson instant boat website (under...Down East Dories). But, alas no image. Befuddled.

[Ober27]

I'm glad you resurrected this old thread, I've enjoyed reading it.
I've been interested in Banks Dories for many years, I wish I could have an opportunity to actually row one, to decide for myself what I think of it.
I've been following your thread as well, lots of valuable opinions being shared.
Darin