The Ideal Shed Thread

[Duncan Gibbs]

Thanks John! I already have a 12" tilting arbor saw with a 100mm cut depth at 90deg from Trade Tools (Chinese). It also has the ability to take a spindle mount and came with the fence for it. I've built a couple of sleds (crosscut and scarfing), but still need to make some zero clearance inserts. I have a mate who can get me trade on Carba-tec (30% off) so I'll be wanting to get a 12" Woodfast planner/thicknesser and a 17" Carba-tec bandsaw plus a dust extractor that can be wheeled around where needed.

Ian, I'll be going single-phase off the house with a main-line straight from the metre box. All the gear I want is single phase and I'm not sure about converting the supply off of a house board.

Sawyer coming after Christmas now.

[Ron Williamson]

The only real problems we've had with Chinese or Taiwanese machinery is the magnetic switches.
Our oldest cheapie dust collectors have been through hell since the late '80s,but the switches only lasted a month or two.Sometimes the centrifugal points get arced,but that's a 20 minute repair.
R

[The Bigfella]

The switch gear on my Taiwanese saw has been replaced (with German I think). My dust collector (it'll be Chinese at a guess) needs "some work" I had it out back under a tarp for a while and the bag supports rusted off.

Just as a matter of interest... what do people do with their cast iron tables?

I was just sitting on the thinking chair in the shed... having just moved some machinery and having given the table saw a quick rub with 400 grit... and I was taken with the reflection off the saw and the fresh paint on the car behind it and thought.... car polish?

I know that Bazza gives the table on his thicknesser a rub with the long side of a candle before each session... but?????

[Ron Williamson]

In the GarageMahal,I have a Unisaw,that got a 220 buffing and now has a diesel-damp cloth over it.
A BIT of wax or grease/oil is all it needs.Too much wipes off on the work and messes with glue and paint.

IIRC, the bearings in those cheap direct-drive dust collectors are bastards(ie.don't match anything,possibly simply metric) and a real pain to replace.
R

[The Bigfella]

Metric bearings are no problem....

[PeterSibley]

The switch gear on my Taiwanese saw has been replaced (with German I think). My dust collector (it'll be Chinese at a guess) needs "some work" I had it out back under a tarp for a while and the bag supports rusted off.

Just as a matter of interest... what do people do with their cast iron tables?

I was just sitting on the thinking chair in the shed... having just moved some machinery and having given the table saw a quick rub with 400 grit... and I was taken with the reflection off the saw and the fresh paint on the car behind it and thought.... car polish?

I know that Bazza gives the table on his thicknesser a rub with the long side of a candle before each session... but?????

Yep ,about right .I use a beeswax and gum turps mix ,but only because Iuse thatt as a general purpose wood polish .A thick coat then polish .Car wax would just as good ...it sure makes the tabletop slippery and lets you get glue drips off it easilly .

[PeterSibley]

My old Chinese saw has been repaired often ,a new Oz motor (1.5hp ) , an external 20amp household switch ,the odd bit of damping and baffle to direct dust out the riight hole .

Next job is to strip it down to bits and have a new spindle turned , this one has a tad too much run out .

[AussieBarney]

this thread is an oxymoron. the ideal shed is like the holy grail. it only exists in someones mind. Dunc, go with what you have, not what you want, otherwise you will never start. I started with a bunch of chinese tools. They are cheap and some of them are not so accurate, but I am biulding my dream, slowly and painfully, with heaps of errors. I turned it over last week so I am onto stage two. I f you wait to have the perfect shed that will be your hobby "Having the perfect shed" and not building boats

[Ron Williamson]

Biggie
For some reason,I think the ID didn't match the common OD on those bearings.I think it was Murray, the tool repair guy or Terry, the electric motor rebuilder, who told me so.
None of mine,four at last count,(knocking on wood as I type),has needed bearings yet.
R

[Duncan Gibbs]

this thread is an oxymoron. the ideal shed is like the holy grail. it only exists in someones mind.

It's the shed that counts mate, not the thread! I've got the slab poured, the timber delivered and a bunch of free windows from Gary, big sheets of glass from Peter and a glass sliding door from the old office landlord down at Tumbulgum. I'll get bolts, nails, screws and the rest of the roofing iron in the new year. Hopefully by the end of January I should have a roof up and an undercover area to start putting stuff that's cluttering up the carport right now.

[The Bigfella]

How much do you charge for storage? I just forked out $6k for a year on a 6mx15m shed. It'd be nice if I could teleport all my stuff out there...

I've just had another look at the arrangements I need to make for timber storage in the workshop... something overhead I think, and I did some thinking about how and where to run the 415v power and the dust extraction.

btw... if you want to rethink 415v - there's a mob out at Villawood with second hand cabling / meters / do dads.... for about one third the price of new.

I just measured the depth of cut on my 12" table saw... and its only 3 3/4". I'd have thought it would be more?

My original thinking of saving a corner for the young bloke's music stuff is out the window. I'll have to build the extra shed down the back.... where the chookhouse / treehouse is now.

[WX]

Duncan, it doesn't matter what you build because the day will arrive when you realise it's just not big enough?
Nature abhors a vacuum and any covered space will attract "stuff".

[Larks]

Absolutely right Gary, and that day is the day you park a H28 in the middle of it with a Hartley on the side!!!!

[PeterSibley]

Duncan, it doesn't matter what you build because the day will arrive when you realise it's just not big enough?
Nature abhors a vacuum and any covered space will attract "stuff".

You talkin' about me fella ?

[RFNK]

John, I agree, generally, about the Chinese equipment - there is some great stuff available at very good prices. I do, however, have a Chinese bandsaw on which I defy anyone to discover a redeeming feature so I'd be immensely grateful if you would let us know what sort of bandsaw yours is, as I'm in the market for a new one! Rick

[PeterSibley]

Hafco ..marvellous stuff

Rick ,what is the problem with it ? Are the wheels in plane vertically ? Does it flex ?

[PeterSibley]

Bed now , I'll look in tomorrow .

[RFNK]

Rick ,what is the problem with it ? Are the wheels in plane vertically ? Does it flex ?

1. Not enough horsepower
2. Guides are fairly useless and the lower ones are nearly impossible to get at to adjust
3. The table tilt is very sticky and clumsy
4. Yes, it seems to flex - difficult to set correct blade tension
5. The fence is too light
6. The wheel diameter seems too small for larger blades for resawing
7. The operator is an idiot

Point 7 is probably the most relevant issue so the replacement saw needs to be relatively fool proof

Rick

[PeterSibley]

1. Not enough horsepower

There is an easy remedy .

1. Guides are fairly useless and the lower ones are nearly impossible to get at to adjust

Better ones are available from CarbaTec ....my saw didn't come with botom guides (???)

1. The table tilt is very sticky and clumsy

Grease?

1. Yes, it seems to flex - difficult to set correct blade tension
2. With a 1/4" blade I'd use every bit of tension it will allow
3. The fence is too light
4. I hate fixed fences
5. The wheel diameter seems too small for larger blades for resawing
6. If you use a good , thin skip tooth blade it should be a lot better .
7. The operator is an idiot
8. Doubtful

Wow , some very strange things happened to the format here ..I can't delete the numbers !

[RFNK]

Yes, it seems to flex - difficult to set correct blade tension
With a 1/4" blade I'd use every bit of tension it will allow
The fence is too light
I hate fixed fences
The wheel diameter seems too small for larger blades for resawing
If you use a good , thin skip tooth blade it should be a lot better .
The operator is an idiot
Doubtful

I can't delete the numbers !

Yes, you can - it's a toggle. Just highlight the numbered area and hit the numbering button and it will turn the numbering off.

I'm in Sydney today so I'm going to head out to Carbatec and Hare and Forbes to look at bandsaws. Rick

[Duncan Gibbs]

Rick, I'd look at the Sheppach Basato 15" at H&F:



Or the Carba-tec 17":



Prices have come down: The Sheppach was about $1400 inc. GST about a year ago and now it's $1089 and the Carbatec was $2K and now is only $1.5K.

[RFNK]

Thanks, and I did look at both of those. I'll make a decision overnight! Rick

[RFNK]

One of the other things I looked at in the tool shops today was one of those Festo Rotex sanders that people were raving about a few weeks ago on another thread. they look nice but they cost ..... over $900 ! In the US they cost around $500, I believe. Now the exchange rate at present (unfortunately for me) is almost par so this looks like a fairly major ripoff to me. Rick

[PeterSibley]

It is possible to get totally carried away with these things ...my 7" Makita sander / polisher with a soft velcro pad is pretty damn good ....and cheeep too .

[Larks]

Peter, I have mostly Makita tools and thought my rotary and belt sanders both pretty fine, but I used a Festool rotex sander on a couple of jobs in a marina last year between contracts (they insisted on having vacuum sanders to work there) and it was noticably better than anything else thay I've used.

[PeterSibley]

Yeah , I think you are probably right ...I know some of them are very good but I'm in denial .The Makita will do for a while (and I have a mate with a DeWalt vacuum random orbital if I REALLY need it !)

[RFNK]

I just can't imagine paying nearly $1000 for a sander! By the way, I bought a Fein Multimaster Top kit in Vietnam for about $350 - Carbatec had the same kit on special for $600. Apparently it's normally about $700. You do have to wonder why. Rick

[hansp77]

I don't think anyone would deny that the Festool Rotex is better than most if not all other ROS's on the market- however, is it THAT much better?
Hell no IMHO (and I have spent a fair bit of time using the thing).
It is lovely.
The day I have money to burn, I may choose to buy one, or whatever other new luxury tool has taken its place. Unfortunately my combustible money pile never seems to grow high enough to justify such a thing.
I'd welcome the challenge to pit a festool rotex up against one of my cheapo chinese beasts, on a REAL everyday job, and see how much better the festool actually is- in terms of the end result. Sure, it feels nicer, and is a lot more pleasurable to use- and a hell of a lot easier- but in the end, I personally (from my own use of the tool) can do just as good a job with the cheapo one (who's tricks and foibles I know well) as with the delightfully pleasant to use festool.

Each to their own. I too find it the height of lunacy to spend close to a grand on a ROS, for my paid work, and for my boat work. Maybe if I was making very fine cabinets or musical instruments, or some other such thing I will never do, then it would be worthwhile.
(Festool!)

(P.S. edit- the day that Festools prices reflect their actual value, I would seriously consider many of their products- though still, likely not the ROS (unless it REALLY came down in price)- they should be IMO a bit more than the top of the line 'equivalents' NOT twice as much. We get screwed on the prices it seems.)

[RFNK]

When I asked the price of the Rotex, I was expecting to hear around $500 - I wouldn't consider paying even that for a sander. For goodness' sake, it's just a motor and a bit of gearing in a plastic case! Festo could sell heaps of these things if they ever decided to get realistic about their pricing. I also looked at a very small sliding bevel at Carbatec. Handmade, nicely, and over $200! No question about the quality and workmanship but ..... Anyway, they said, oh, we also have this other one - $89! Great!! And a book - US price marked on the book - $17.95. Price in Oz, on special - $36. For those who don't know, the Oz dollar is currently worth about US90c. Grrrrrr!!! Rick

[hansp77]

I agree entirely Rick. It is a pity IMO that they are going for the mega-expensive luxury boutique power-tool slot, low turnover (comparatively), and no doubt insanely high profit margins.

If one simply needs the best tool on the market, then I suppose any price might be justified. If one simply wants the best tool on the market and is happy to pay the exorbitant price for it then that too can get justified in way. While you get a lot with Festool, I don't actually think 'you get what you pay for'- You may get the best, but you still get lot less than what you are paying for

At a friends recent bucks party weekend thing I went to, someone brought along a new big Carbatec catalogue. That thing got thumbed through and commented over more than a playboy would have in a teen boys secret draw during a sleepover!
It was hilarious.
There is a lot of nice stuff, but so much of it seems out of control to me. So much of this tool mania stuff are really not 'tools' anymore, they are entering the realm of super-hyped up consumer goods...

Anyway, I am off to do some hyped-up shopping for consumer goods.
Happy Christmas everyone!

[RFNK]

And I just bought the 17" bandsaw from Carbatec. Hope it's okay! 5 year warranty.

Merry Christmas to all! Rick

[The Bigfella]

Well done Rick.

I decided to go chasing 415v wiring today... closed till 4 Jan.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Good stuff Rick! It's the one I want. It's a well priced machine with enough capacity to handle most largish re-saw and shaping jobs.

I agree with you Hans, that there is a quite a bit of hyper-consumerism associated with buying tools. Half of mine are second-hand from Markets or just given to me (thanks Peter!) Lots of people still want the flashest looking dooverlackies for their shed. I'd just prefer the right tools for the jobs, ensure that they are looked after and provide many years of faithful service.

[RFNK]

I also ordered the book - in fact it's the later edition of the book I spoke about. $50 from Carbatec but I ordered it from my local bookshop (i.e., on the same planet), Amazon - $14.

I don't think you'll ever regret going to 3-phase Ian! Rick

[PeterSibley]

When I asked the price of the Rotex, I was expecting to hear around $500 - I wouldn't consider paying even that for a sander. For goodness' sake, it's just a motor and a bit of gearing in a plastic case! Festo could sell heaps of these things if they ever decided to get realistic about their pricing. I also looked at a very small sliding bevel at Carbatec. Handmade, nicely, and over $200! No question about the quality and workmanship but ..... Anyway, they said, oh, we also have this other one - $89! Great!! And a book - US price marked on the book - $17.95. Price in Oz, on special - $36. For those who don't know, the Oz dollar is currently worth about US90c. Grrrrrr!!! Rick

Rick, any books I really want I buy via ABE books .Definitely the way to go .http://www.abebooks.com/

[RFNK]

I don't know Abe Books but I'll check them out. I'm a big Amazon fan though. I ordered books from Amazon when I was working in PNG and when they didn't turn up quickly enough, Amazon sent me another batch and credited my account for one that was out of stock. This despite the fact that I told them that it was probably just slow service within PNG (which it was). Then the original batch did turn up so I contacted Amazon to ask them to cancel the new order and withdraw the credit from the account. They simply said to donate the extra books to the local library and the extra funds to charity. I call that great service. I've never had any problem with Amazon and I usually find their book prices and freight charges to be very competitive. Rick

[PeterSibley]

ABE might be different ,it's a linkup of thousands of booksellers all over the place , but mainly US and Britain .I tend to buy old books ..it 's something to do with my taste in boats ...books 50 years old and older .

You can find almost any book imaginable on it's site .

[RFNK]

I checked it out. Looks like a great service! Rick

[Duncan Gibbs]

Enough of this 'books' stuff! Let's get back to what their originally made from: TIMBER!!

Well, I've been on a weight loss programme called sawyering! My new mate Rob came and set up his Lucas Mill down on the flat and brought his 4.5T tractor along to move the logs around. Needless to say, after a lengthy period of dry it decided to bucket down before and during the first day of milling. My mate Simon came and helped on the first day as well. Here's Rob and Simon after the first log was nearly done:



The small diameter Eucalyptus saw logs have a fair bit of pull in them, but not as bad as we were expecting. The shape should straighten up once stacked and stickered for a short while, and then pulled into straight in the framing for the shed:





This is the aftermath of the first two days of milling from up at the house. Rob will be back on Monday to finish the rest (hoping the weather stays dry!!)



Bit like the Somme down there!

Here's all the timber stacked and stickered:



Here's the frame for the bath that will have an insecticide/chlorine solution for dipping the hoop pine and camphor in - both subject to insect attack and to a lesser degree bluestain fungi attack - on Monday:

[Duncan Gibbs]

I've got two approximate lengths from the Flooded Gum and Blackbutt logs: 4.5m and 6m. Here's the 4.5 metre long stack:



The slash pine (Pinus eliotii) came out dead straight with no pull at all and very few knots coming through to the heartwood. But it did have some pretty bad bluestain attack:



Bluestain doesn't affect the strength of the timber at all, just the appearance, but now it's been milled, stacked and stickered, and - as of today - covered the seasoning process should stop the fungi in its tracks.

Here's the Hoop Pine stack (aka a future build of Atkin's Krazy Kat design):



This will be block stacked and wrapped in black builder's plastic for a few weeks after Monday to treat any grubs and borers that may try and attack the timber in the future. The camphor will also be dipped but will be stickered to season as it's not subject to such ferocious attack as the Hoop is.

I've also got some old power poles that I've cut down to 1.4 metre lengths and cut length-ways with the chainsaw on both sides and finished with the log splitter/sledgey combination to make 16 posts to retain the bank on the LHS, which - as you can see - has started to collapse after a good couple of hundred mm of rain. I'll use old corrugate I've got from the tip to form the wall.



I've started painting the bottoms and backs of the posts with a bitumen paint mixed with permenthrin to help prevent termite attack. I'll also paint the back of the tin with the bitumen paint to ensure a fair degree of longevity.

Anyhoo, I'm bloody knackered and am soon off to bed, as I've got 16 500mm deep holes to dig tomorrow and the rest of the poles to paint with the black goop.

Here's to weight loss!!

[Larks]

Well Duncan - great work!! Wood envy!!!

[The Bigfella]

About time you did some work Dunc. I'm trying to work up the motivation to get up in the ceiling so I can connect up the new ceiling fan in the bedroom. Gawd we needed it last night.

[PeterSibley]

Well done Dunc , that was a mighty job with the little saw .

[Duncan Gibbs]

Okay... It's been hot!... Bloody hot...

And I've lost 4 kilograms: Mr Sibley was the official measurer.

And this is why:

Logs all split and painted with bitumen and permenthrin:



Including the back. Observe thus:



Lined up and ready to get plugged, whilst the dipping bath fills up:



Chemicals for the bath:



Camphor going for a dip, whilst the Hoop Pine sits waiting its turn:



I never knew that one could sweat so profusely from the hands, or overheat from having your hands encased in rubber gloves, leaning over a toxic bath moving great chunks of lumber around.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Anyhoo, Peter helped me plug two of the posts by hand, but I wasn't about to spend the rest of my days digging post holes so I hired some mechanical assistance:





Which still required a hand crafted finish:



Meanwhile the tin for the wall got a coat of bitumen on the back and bottom, whilst the front received a stain with 50% mix of bitumen and turps. Note the block stack of Hoop wrapped in black builders plastic behind (top centre of the picture):



Posts go in, rammed solid with a crow bar top:

[Duncan Gibbs]

All finished... apart from the ends:







Bit of the old texture left on for good effect:



Next I have to get the rest of the Gum and Blackbutt that was milled up down on the flat this weekend, open up the Hoop block and re-dip in the bath, stack and sticker it, and bucket the contents of the bath behind each pole in the wall.

FUN IN THE SUN.... Here's to another two KG gone!

[WX]

Hey I'm dripping sweat just looking at the photos
How much to hire the posthole digger, I want one?

[PeterSibley]

Loookin' good Dunc !

[P.L.Lenihan]

Why split the logs Mr.Gibbs? You've given away away half their strength,no?
Just wondering and looking forward to when you folks start shipping some of that heat you're always whinning about up to this half of the planet...bunch-o-whimps!

She'll start lookin' good once we can see the walls and woof in place!

Carry on Mister Gibbs, carry on and don't forget to hydrate...alot!


Cheers!


Peter, from the lower Arctic fringes

[Larks]

Nice job Duncan, nice to have some decent dirt to dig into as well with that post hole digger. I've tried using a two person one up here and it was a rough ride, got bucked off a few times when we hit small rocks.