V-bottom skiffs

[davebrown]

I am having to acknowledge the fact that I cannot get to the swampscott dory that I have been planning for a year. I started the layout on the stems and garboard and now I am stalled.

A faster build, for this season, might be an interesting 16 or 17' sailing skiff. I was looking at plans for the windward 17. I also like the lines on the Chincoteague Skiff (near the bottom of the page here: http://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm). I recognize that rowboats and sailboats are compromised in one or both directions, but what about the rowing qualities of the v-bottom sailing skiff?

Second, aside from the tendency to reduce pounding, does the v-bottom give much more rough water performance over the flat-bottom skiff?

Last, I would really like to rig the boat with a spritsail, and thus a shorter mast, than one of the more modern rigs. But I am open to suggestion.

I would appreciate comments on these issues.

[Thorne]

You'll have to tell us why you stalled out, as building a ply Swampscott isn't much more complex (possibly less) than the Windward 17.

Maybe something simple and smaller, like Michalak's Piccup Pram?

[davebrown]

let me rephrase my questions. A flat-bottom skiff can be fast and simple to build. A shallow v-bottom design should be a little less fast and simple--if designed to use plywood on the bottom--but not near as time consuming as the swampscott. And I can't build a swampscott as fast as a skiff: this is my fifth boat. Thus, is the v-bottom skiff worth the extra effort? What is the consequence on rowing vs. sailing, etc? But I appreciate your inquiry.

[Daniel Noyes]

Thorne makes a good point, even a basic three sheet boat is only going to save you mabey 10% of your build time, still have to build a hull, spars, foils, etc... A "instant" boat can really be a false economy. If you are spending the money and most of the time anyway why not build the superior boat. Its hard to get any simpler than a dory with out making major concessions to performance and seaworthyness.
Dan

[Thorne]

I can only address the boats that I've had personal experience with, plus comments by others.

If you'd like a simple V-bottom skiff for sailing, the Piccup Pram is a good bet == and a lot of 'em have been built so you are not on your own when building questions arise, or you have rigging or sail questions.

My friend Tony built the one above, and both sails and rows it actively. I've heard that the designer says it sails better than it rows.

If you want a more classic boat, I'd say continue with the Swampscott as it should be better for rowing.

[JimD]

I hope you build the Selway Fisher boat because I thing she's a real charmer and would spruce up any waterfront:





The gaff rig is very low aspect but I bet Paul Fisher would be happy to advise on changing it.



It looks like a lot of boat to get done for 'this season' though.

[davebrown]

the selway fisher is a stunner, and of a vanishing (ed?) breed as well. the fact that it is decked will definitely add to build time. gardner's 18'6 gunning dory is what I was prepping for. All I need is 48 hours in a day.

[wtarzia]

The V-bottom craft made by Swallow Boats are stunning. Models from 15, 17, and 19 feet long, double-enders, sloops and yawls. -- Wade

[dredbob]

As for the differences between a flat bottomed skiff and a vee-bottomed one of the same displacement and roughly the same length and beam, the flat bottom will draw a bit less water, while the vee will sit somewhat deeper but will present a bit finer entry and exit. It is likely that the vee will row a little easier, but for small light boats the difference may not be that noticable. As for presenting finer sailing lines, it probably won't be much of an advantage unless the vee is very sharp (ie deep), because once heeled, the flat bottom boat will be riding on the vee of the chine between side and bottom, while the vee bottom boat is likely to be riding flat on the previously angled half of the bottom.

The usual reason to go to a vee bottom is to get increased displacement over a similarly dimensioned flat bottom while keeping the stem and stern out of the water and maintaining easy lines. The vee allows ballast to be deeper and/or makes the loaded boat more stable.

Bob

[andrewjeffrieswebmail]

Well, for what it's worth, I have a Pete Culler-designed 18'6" flat bottom skiff... it has a lean beam, long waterline and rows extremely well. Sails suprisingly well, given its simple sprit rig. I recommend this design to anyone. I've had it out in a variety of water... open sounds, bays, and lakes, in varying winds and chop. Its low freeboard avoids getting blown around. And its long waterline really moves well under sail or rowing. This is my my first wooden boat and my first flat bottom skiff, so I can't really compare it to anything else. However, I think I love this boat more any of the other boats I own or have owned. What a gem.

Hope you find a good fit.

[kenjamin]

I'm presently building Ross Lillistone's Flint which is a 14' 9" vee bottomed rowboat but Ross has recently drawn a sailing rig for it. It's stitch and glue and basically 4 sheets of ply. So if you want something quick and easy, check it out. Built in Okume it's 110 lbs and can possibly be car topped or very light trailer. With two aboard, it has very little wetted surface and tracks well because of the vee. Can take a two horse motor too.

[Steve Paskey]

If you're interested in an easy-to-build v-bottomed sailing skiff of about 16-17 feet, you might take a look at the Bay River Skiff from Graham Byrnes of B&B Yacht Designs:

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/brs.htm

I've heard nothing but good reports about Graham's boats. The Bay River Skiff uses a cat-ketch rig and is available in two sizes: 15' and 17'. Graham also has a series of Core Sound designs, in 15, 17, and 20. The Core Sound boats have more of a "v" and they're drier and a bit wider, but they wouldn't row as well and are a bit more time-consuming to build. The page above has a link to a nice comparison chart showing the differences between the two.

[Clinton B Chase]

Also look at the Goat Island Skiff, although it is smaller then you have specified. But the Goat is a big 15-1/2 footer with the decent freeboard.

Otherwise my only comment is to echo what Bob states above. When heeled over a V-bottom skiff like the Windward will still have a nice flat shape aft on which to sail, but could still be induced to pound. I have not yet sailed the GIS, but as a designer know that it will be difficult to get such a fine bowed skiff to pound. To avoid this when sailing into a chop for instance a heel to the boat will present a v-shape and should avert any pounding.

Finally, I'd also second the observations above that a dory won't be a huge increase in hours above say a boat like the Core Sound or Windward, which also require strongback set ups in the case of the Windward or quite a bit of filleting and interior structure construction in the case of the CS (incidentally, I think I would use a S'back to build the CS to make the panel construction much easier since I am solo in my shop). However, the Goat Island Skiff requires no strongback and would go together very quickly. Michael taught a course where two novice builders constructed the boat and the mast in 80 hours.

The Goat is a very light boat and would be easy to row. Once you are into the 17'+ sailboat range it will be a little tedious to row, unless you are very strong. If it is a 50/50 row/sail boat you are looking for take others advice and build a dory or perhaps the Pete Culler skiff, a beautiful boat that you could plank with ply on the bottom and gain a tight boat with less building time, but again, the major difference becomes whether the boat requires a strongback and/or the amount of structure that needs to be built into the boat, such as the decks on the CS for example (and also the trickiness of stitching these panels together especially solo).

Think about what you goals are for the project, is it 1) to gain a set of specific skills in boatbuilding or 2) to get it done and into a boat that will get you sailing.

Regarding your comment about the sail, I could see a sprit or a lug rig in the Windwards for sure, but you have to have that designed for you or do that design work yourself if you have training or do some homework. If you have drawing/drafting skills, the process will be much easier to do that work. Incidentally, the Goat has a lug rig.

I would highly suggest checking out the Goat Island Skiff. If you worked hard you could have it built and be sailing within a few months.

I'd be happy to talk to you more...I've been building sailing and rowing a dozen or more skiffs for a few years now.

Cheers,
Clint